Matthew Le God

Why is it daft to think about now? Saints don't as a Championship side need a training facility anywhere near as good as the one currently under construction. It is being built because that is what Cortese thinks the club will be require should it reach where he intends to take it.

I'm not the only person debating this, so why do you only address this to me? Those on the other side of the argument are continuing this just as much as I am. Is that not exactly what you are doing but from the other side of the debate? Every post I make you attempt to take apart and vice versa.

Yes, yes you did... That is a stat, and that is what I was posting in response to (hence why I quoted it).

What is wrong with my post? He was quoting Sunderland attendances of 80 years ago in the 1930's and ignoring their recent history of sub 20k attendances (and sub 10k season ticket holders) before they moved stadium where they now get 40k averages.

Completely irrelevant because a different age of football support 70 to 80 years ago! Throughout the generation of the 1980's and 1990's they averaged under 20k with 10k season ticket holders.

Where was this build up during the generation of the 1980's and 1990's at Roker Park? If you go back further, that is a different generation and thus less relevant. The averaged under 20k throughout and had under 10k season ticket holders, yet they now average 40k.

Those stats are for all chances. Half chances, full chances whatever. In any case using your logic... Rickie Lambert = 21 goals from 149 chances in a lower league = 1 goal in 7 chances Sharp's 1 in 5 in the league above doesn't look so bad now does it?

Look at Sunderland before the Stadium of Light. Averages under 20k throughout the 1980's and 1990's. Move to a 40k+ stadium and get 40k averages. Are they not a provincial club/city from a less affluent area? Sunderland had just under 10,000 season ticket holders when they moved to a 42,000 stadium (which later expanded to 49,000).

Quite a generalisation to categorise all chances as being equally easy/difficult.

He was injured for 3 months and only started 27 games (two coming on as sub). So it is a better ratio than that. Also he was playing for team that only just stayed up so they didn't exactly set up a lot of chances for him. 15 goals in 27 starts at a level above Saints played last season is a very good record when all that is taken into consideration.

Cortese has said they have plans for one and numerous sell outs long in advance of matches/30k+ averages show one is needed.

I think you both should you should check the date of the interview. It was over 15 months ago! Maybe it is still early, but 15 months and one promotion closer to the Premier League later is a significant change from when that interview took place, things may well of moved on since then. The Cortese dinners were also far more recent, only 3 months ago.

A write up of one of the Cortese dinners (verified by a few people that were there)... The BBC interview (from 36:50)... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

That isn't using my logic at all. If they had the will to stop the training ground and not the power to do so it still would have happened (as it did). You however said it as a statement of fact that you knew they had no power or will to stop it. How do you know that?

How do you know that?

"It matter not" Well yes, if they were just the words of a deluded fool on a messageboard spouting them. But when they are the words of the chairman of the club who has a rich backer and we have already seen them match words with actions and investment into the club, they carry a lot more substance.

Then why is the chairman mentioning it as part of Markus' and his vision/plans for the club? He could quite easily say it won't happen in his tenure at Saints. Yet despite this, in BBC and fans dinner questioning he talks about stadium development and area around stadium development.

Well... - if they had the will to stop the development and didn't have the power = doesn't matter - if they had the power to stop the development and didn't have the will to do so = doesn't matter Either way it doesn't matter, as shown by the development going ahead as planned and Cortese saying "nothing has changed".

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here? No-one in this thread is speaking from a position of any real knowledge. I however have taken a stance towards the views of the professional businessman. He may well be wrong, along with some of his equivalents at other clubs but at least they have more evidence and sports business nous than any of us.

And if the family had the power and will to stop it, why didn't they?

The majority of vocal posters in this thread disagree with me. There is a difference! In any case, the majority isn't always right. Not saying that I am 100% right either, before you start with that line of attack.

The training ground plans were resubmitted months after his death at three times the cost of the original plan.

Not at all, a number of people on this thread have shown a similar(ish) view to mine. It just happens that Kraken, DellDays and you are the ones debating me.

Well none of us really know the Liebherr's true plans for the club. If they really do have the resources to back the club to challenge at the top of the Premier League then yes, it should be developed asap. If that isn't the case, then no. So far, the investment in the academy and training ground suggests that these aren't hollow ambitions and they really do have the resources to put their money where their mouth is.

- 30k+ attendances for four consecutive years is good evidence. - Many, many games between 2001 and 2005 selling out long in advance of the fixture is good evidence. - Cortese having access to the ticketing database and research done by the club that we don't have access to provides him with evidence to make the statement at the fan dinner about crowds of 45k.