sandwichsaint

I assume you know the difference between weather and climate, yes? There was a whole thread yesterday about our 'natural level' where the consensus was that we can sustain a mid-table position but not realistically aspire to anything very much higher, and we can give it our best shot in the cups each year. I'd agree that's pretty much where we are at the moment and it's pretty typical of our longer term historical position (8th-12th is probably a bit higher than our long term average but on last night's showing I'm not sure 8th-12th is a long-term given).

Only up to a point, surely we would have to create 7 goal scoring opportunities to draw this conclusion. Apart from Wanyama's header straight at him I can't remember him having to make a save?

Don't be mean, you know what I mean. Something like we were in an unnaturally long-term low position when we were in Lge One and we were still below our long term average when we were in the Championship. Last year we rode in the top 4 for a part of the season and had our highest finish in modern times. We were everybody's darling, surely you remember that? We played some great stuff in front of a generally pretty solid defence. Looks to me like we're back to the same old, same old, in 12 short months. The players look unfit, unmotivated, the better ones want out, we will likely finish somewhere between 8th and 14th, we might occasionally bring down a big beast, we will probably take a couple of hits ourselves, I'd say normal service has been resumed.

1 Watching Saints will forever be a triumph of hope over expectation, after a decent period of growth we appear to be rapidly regressing to the mean. 2 Going to SMS is becoming a pretty soul-less and joyless day out. Away days are much more fun (although also increasingly less good, see point 4) 3 The demise of Liverpool has been greatly exaggerated and they have another 6 or 7 starters who didn't even play last night, one tiny consolation was to see just how much Brenda was under-achieving with that group of players. 4 So glad I followed us down the leagues and, particularly, back up again; my best years supporting Saints, great memories that plastic PL fans will never have. 5 We have turned into a combined shop window and bargain basement, RIP, the night the Southampton Way died.

Moving him to CB gave him the chance to shine and show his versatility and footballing smarts ... that master stroke that must have knocked another couple of £m off his price .... shambolic.

Dembele CDAJFU Unlikely to happen now but prob would have been available in the last window.

This is exactly what happened.

Bit presumptuous on current form?

A few things we missed last night: leadership (I literally couldn't tell you who was captain last night), any semblance of talking or organisation across the keeper and back 4 .. none what so ever. Fitness and conditioning, just embarrassing, Liverpool quicker, stronger, in all areas, we've gone from being super-fit under Poch to looking like a bunch of parks players. Desire, hunger, will to win, were all non-existent, we actually looked like we were up for it the first 15 minutes but when their first goal went in we just chucked the towel in, I didn't see any belief or desire to get back in it at any stage. Formation/tactics, again back in park land, huge hole in the middle of the park, no cover for the full backs, Pelle 30m from any supporting player .. just rubbish hoofball a lot of the time. Can't keep putting these below par performances down to it being an up and down transition type season, our transfer policy decrees that every season will be a transition and we've seen the evidence of it too many times already this season, essentially Wanyama and Mane are gone and just going through the motions, Bertrand looks the same to me, he's half the player he was last season, Pelle gets more irritable/negative by the game, though obvs he had nothing to work with last night tbf. No plan B at all, a squad full of one-paced, one-dimensional journey men, if that's all we've got then we need to get back to basics, set-up from the back and make ourselves much much much harder to play against. I really can't believe the academy loans would have done any worse last night. Second cup competition this season we've exited with barely a whimper, seems like the fans want it much more than the players do!

Anybody know if the King Alfred is open tonight? I have to meet someone fairly lastminute.com so any port (pint?) in a storm and all that.

He can start from tonight then, it's a big ask but he'll never have a better chance of a trophy with Saints. We padded out the squad for a Europa campaign and most people think we now have more depth than before (though he/we would always like more) though possibly a slightly weaker starting X1 too. He has probs with Fonte and RB to contend with, beyond that he has a fit and partly rested squad. He needs to conjure decent performances from Wanyama/Bertrand/Mane that reflect their real ability. On our day we play some great stuff and are a match for anybody. He needs to stick to his job which is to pick the right team, call the right tactics, make the right subs. Together as one!

Rested Clasie, Tadic, Soares, and we also have an involuntarily rested Pelle to come back too; and kept the GD to -2, well played RK. Isn't this what everybody wanted for cup games?

If you read one thing today, read this piece. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire Now tell me, are the Government merely incompetent or do they really not care? Looking at this exchange Cameron (or the lackey who actually wrote the letter) have absolutely no idea how their austerity plays out in real life.

School boy error, I though LVG was known for his thorough preparation?

Completely owned by MLG, not a good look.

Great thread, dream PL for me based on nothing more than 50 yrs of mainly hurt: Man U Arsenal Spurs Chelsea L'pool Everton Villa (why?) Leeds Wolves Forest West Ham (reluctantly, would rather have Palace) Man City Newcastle Ipswich (Bobby Robson, European nights, Portman Rd, CMFG) Derby Saints WBA That's 17 proper football clubs, the rest can argue it out amongst themselves for the other 3 places, Cardiff/Swansea Stoke Brighton Midds Sunderland Watford QPR Burnley Blackburn Fulham Cov Leicester

Where do you start? Really looking fd to the game but the optimsm barometer was sent spinning when hearing that KD was playing! WTF? Last time I wanted to ever see this guy was at the Etihad last season and he didn't let anyone down that day, A couple of worldies and an honourable defeat. Here's your watch, thank-you, and enjoy. Spin fd 6 months and we're playing a challenging-but-winnnable PL game at home to leicester chuffing City! Can't believe how many on here consider 2-2 at home to Leicester, after being 2-0 up, to be a decent result! Slow start from us and Leicester looking purposeful-but-limited, we've just won away at Chelsea, they've just been stuffed at home by Arsenal. We finally shake ourselves, decent corners for once, we're 2-0 up and cruising, Leics a shambles at the back and Saints looking set for a comfortable 3 points. Memo to Saints' backroom staff, all Leic have got is spirit, pluck, effort and more effort, they will throw the kitchen sink and then some. Match them and you win the game, you've got a two goal start, if you keep it to 0-1 second half (and you will have plenty of chances to extend your lead) you will take a relatively comfortable 3 points, all you have to do is match them: one-on-one, man-for-man, eye-for-eye. tooth-for-tooth. you close out the game. Simple? T-H-E-Y A-R-E- R-E-A-L-L-Y N-O-T A-N-Y-W-H-E-R-E N-E-A-R A-S G-O-O-D A-S- S-O-M-E O-N H-E-R-E A-R-E M-A-K-I-N-G O-U-T !!!! Really disappointed to see comments that they 'wanted it more than us'; move to Southampton, live the pre-dream, ride the tiger, move to a big club. Win enough games to ensure the fans stay onside, they'll always cut you some slack that lot. KD 2 nuff said Cedric 6 jury's still out but i think he will be alight Fonte 7 cracking finish, spiteful kick behind the knee from Vardy VVD, 6 (loving his) work in progress, a sort of Dutch Mark Wright, but he needs some to find some PL streets asap RB, WTF? 2 a game too far, prob his weakest ever Saints performance. Will get (much) better. VW 5, picked up a nonsense booking and some sort of hammy/groin problem, and really looked like he wished he was anywhere but here. JWP 7. I'm not feeling the hate, our most improved player this season. Mane 3, he just had one today Davis 7, usual stuff, we collapsed completely without him. Tadic 2, ok first half, totally anonymous second half Pelle 3, after the Lord Mayor's show, two stellar performance against MU and Chelsea, living the dream as Italy's number 9, back to reality today. Yoshida 6, usual, willing whole-hearted performance, i didn't see him do much wrong. Clasie 2, poor substitution, wrong player, wrong time, there's deep-end and there's drowning. JRod 2, why? wrong player, wrong time, We needed to stop Leic playing, protect the back 4 and keep the ball, J offered none of these options. Things can only get better, quick, someone tell me we were in lge 1 five years ago and we're lucky to have a team to support!

Did you watch the game? I'm not sure KD reached the halfway line with any kick in the game? Your's might be a good Plan B but I spot a massive flaw ... KD should've kicked beyond their CB's ... I'm sure he'd have loved to!

Just in, still fuming, 69 points down 'til someone nails it!

When I read the title and the basic resume I assumed the punchline was that the money grabbing barstewards had refused a refund. Imagine my horror when reading on whereby I discovered that the club had in fact refunded the money within a week, which goes well beyond anything they are obliged to do. Great work Saints, and I hope your dad continues to enjoy following Saints in whatever form that takes.

Zero chance that Pelle would let his hair go in goal nor would he allow his knees to get muddy.

Definitely VVD in a sort of rush goalie stylee, dribbling it out from the back to make the 11th man. And going up for every corner too, and heading it away rather than catching it, think he'd be a pretty good all round sub goalie. Or Juanmi, just to continue his beefing-up process.

That was kinda my point ...

Good to see that we are comfortably above Leicester on a weighted current-form table.

TORQUAY 2-3 DOVER ATHLETIC, Dover up to 4th in the Conference, a long way to go but Dover are traditionally slow starters, very solid in the middle third of the season, and then blow it on the run-in. Maybe this year they could bring Lge football to a place it's never been?