Turkish

Yes i agree. Some good bits in it but a lot of talking up the chairman and what a great job he is doing. That was all a bit unnessasary to be honest.

So are these factors, the factors you used, valid when deciding which club is bigger or not? League and Cup performance Historical attendances Population Infratructure Also I dont disagree that some factors that your used are more important than other and dont assume they do at all, so why dont you number them for us, 1-4. Obviously population will be number 4. Maybe you could even give them a % and put them into a little pie chart for us all.

Because your replies are nonsense, You use these factors then when they disprove your claims you say they aren't valid and we should speculate on what might have happend in the past and what might happen in the future. It really isn't hard. Just apply your factors to Saints and Everton, using FACTS and evidence not speculation, although it seems you find this impossible to do.

Same as you used for Man United and Darlington League and Cup performance Historical attendances Population Infratructure You where the one who used these factors. So use them now with Saints against Everton and Villa.Why are these things valid factors when comparing one set of clubs but not when it comes to another?

Oh dear. Didnt you say "attendances for generations" not Saints in 2005 and Evertons in 2012. Have Saints ever had a higher average crowd than Everton? Can you honestly not see how his can be telling of the fan bases? Of course you can't, hence why we keep having these circular arguments even I am starting to get bored with!

I make that Villa 4 Saints 0 So using MLGs own factors as to what makes a club bigger, despite his claims both Everton and villa and are bigger than Saints.

So to counter your own argument that historical attendances are one of the 4 yardsticks when measuring club size what you acutally meant was ignore historical attendances and speculate on what atteendancesight have been or be if saints had or will have in the future a stadium of equal size? This is a better yardstick, yes?

Lets use the criteria he has used in the past but is now back tracking on. Population League and cup success Infrastructure historical attendances

What counter arguements are there? You set the criteria above. Population League and cup success Infrastructure historical attendances There was no mention of specuatlion what attendances might be in 2023 or what trophies Saints might have won by 2078.

Who is doing this?

No it isn't its easy. Population League and cup sucess Infrastructure historical attendances Everton 3.5 Saints 0.5 They were you're factors for Man U or Darlington, why are they now different for Saints and Everton?

Right so on the one hand we are deciding who is the bigger club based on historical attendances. Yet now you want us to speculate on what attendances might be if we had a bigger stadium and ignore all historical evidence. Which one is it? Also you're the one going on about the size of stadium being important. Their staidum is going by your factors this means they are bigger.

Goodison park is bigger our academy is better, so lets call that one a score draw then shall we. Still Everton 3.5 Saints 0.5 Here are Evertons and Saints historic attendances, even in the early 80's with a 24k capacity and our most successful ever side we still only average 18-21k. So this is some improtant evidence you might not be aware of. Correct me if im wrong but Saints have never had a bigger average crowd than Everton, even when capacity allowed it such as it did in 77-85. http://www.toffeeweb.com/history/records/attendances.asp http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/soto.htm

Well let's use the factors you used to decide who is he bigger club out of Darlington and Man U, let's apply them to Saints and Everton. Historic attendances - Everton League and cup performances - Everton Population - Everton Infrastructure - Everton Other than guessing at what saints demand might be one day in the future if we expand, do well mars aligns to venus and so on I'm struggling to make a case using your factors for saints being bigger than Everton.

So we agree then. Good good.

Isnt there any important pieces of evidence that you might not be aware of?

I never said that MLG, stop making things up. I said we werent turning thousands of people away every week.

Maybe it will. But the factors that stopped people going last season still exist, do they not? I am not saying we should never ever expand, all i am saying is that it'd be better to make sure we can fill it first before spending millions on expanding it. We do this by filling what we have every week and by turning people away. Demand outstripping supply.

How did you reach that conclusion? What factors did you take into account?

Tens of thousands according to MLG. The reality of course is somewhat different. Like you, i know quite a few who wont be paying that much. personally for me £40 a game is my benchmark, when it gets over that i wont go regularly anymore, unless its to watch us challenging for the Premier league title!

Im still waiting for you to answer which club is the biggest out of Man U and Darlington so dont start demanding answers sunshine.

I stand to be correct and as i said above, it was from memory of when we moved there.

Based on comments when the stadium was built that it can be expanded by 12,000 if this was nessasary and only 3 of the 4 stands can be expanded. As for Brighton the point was you showed us a few pretty pictures of 8,000 or so seats, if we can only expand to 44k then we can only expand by 12,000, 4,000 seats more than them. 12,000- 8,000 = 4,000, yes?

We can only expand to 44k, so "45k (maybe more)" is bullsh*t from you as usual.

yes, i am absolutely sure they have. Which is why, despite the demands of some people on here, they aren't laying bricks and fitting chairs right now. It seems NC appears to side with the Dell sized mentality posters who would like to see a season or so of sell outs and a full 32k SMS before spunking millions on making it bigger. Does that make sense to you?