hypochondriac

So if you don't think that's the aim of Hamas, what do you think are their aims?

The only person who is naive is the one continually using the term about people who disagree with you.

Are you suggesting there is no evidence that Hamas don't want to wipe out Israel?

So what form of compromise did you have from Hamas to try to improve the situation? Because hampering the ability of Hamas to acquire heavier weaponry has seemed like quite a good tactic from Israel thus far to limit the murder rate.

So you think if Israel ended their occupation of the West Bank that Hamas would then back down in some way from their current stance of wanting to kill all Jews and remove them?

And he has the temerity to accuse others of calling him anti semitic for what he perceives to be something minor. It's staggering hypocrisy but pretty much par for the course for soggy.

What compromise? Israel should be allowed to exist. They should stop blockades and recognise Palestine and allow the border to be open but they would be unable to do that presently as Palestine wants to murder them all. I have no doubt that if Hamas did what I had outlined that the call for Israel to respond woukd be deafening and imo they would respond positively. They aren't going to end the blockades now or lower their defences for obvious reasons. Why would they?

I could say likewise about yourself. We aren't going to agree because you don't recognise the clear and obvious difference between the two. (I note the reaction from the rest of the Muslim world too which has frankly been disgusting but not surprising.)

Yes they are involved as well but my point is that if Hamas was so inclined, they could work towards solving the problems but they won't because they've sworn to eradicate Jews from Israel and they believe that the qaran gives them that justification. Israelis don't have that option because if they just allowed Hamas to do what it wanted, they would end up with more death and slaughtering. So there's one side who wants to commit genocide given the opportunity and another side who if they stopped their defensive actions-whether you agree with the or not- know that it would result in many or most of them being killed.

If Israel had decided not to respond, to allow any goods through to Palestine and allow free travel, do you think the violence against Israel would go up or down? Do you think Hamas would become peaceful and no longer attack? That this course of action would put more or less weapons in the hands of Hamas? However, if Hamas decided that their goal was to work towards improving the lot of the Palestinian people, stop attacks, recognise Israel's right to exist, use foreign aid to improve infrastructure etc and this stance is maintained for a number of years, then most of the problems would be solved. Hamas has the power to make things better but they refuse. Because they hate Israel and want all Israelis dead.

Certainly not the level of certainty that major news outlets or nation states had yesterday at any rate.

Not just permission, they believe they are commanded to do so.

My point is they don't want to share anything with Israel as evidenced by the fact that they have turned down more than one opportunity when offered. A large number want to slaughter them all.

So again, what's your realistic alternative? Israel wants to get rid of as much of Hamas as they can. Hamas cares nothing for human life, uses civilians as human shields and stores weapons and hideouts in hospitals. If you want to get rid of a large amount of Hamas then unfortunately there will be some unavoidable civilian casualties due to how Hamas operate. Beyond the bellicose rhetoric from both sides, Israel simply has to respond to the slaughter and terrorism and it's unrealistic to expect them not to do so.

Palestine were offered that opportunity in the 1940s by the UN. They declined.

Amen. That's the precise difference. Hamas have caused this.

That's just idealistic nonsense. It's completely and utterly unrealistic.

When Israel fly into Palestine, torture and murder babies and young children, shoot families hiding in safe rooms, live stream the murder of grandmothers on their own social media then use their religious texts to justify it, I'll consider them the same.

With enough military force they can certainly reduce it's capacity to do what they did last week any time soon. Which is surely their aim.

Hold on. If the Israeli authorities had the power to do so, I don't believe they would kill and maim every Palestinian in Palestine. The same cannot be said for Hamas who would relish the opportunity. There isn't a moral equivalence.

In what world would Hamas accept that? They want to wipe Israel off the map. They don't want any oslution that you involves the state of Israel continuing to exist in any form.

"go after the terrorists." How?

I would just love us to throw caution to the wind every so often and overwhelm teams with our attacking talent. I totally get the value of safe football but we have one of if not the best attacking options in world football. We should be making teams fear us.

So don't bother trying then? Just accept terrorists hangliding into your country and indiscriminately murdering your fellow citizens?

OK then so their current action is too excessive as a response to the worst terror attack against Jews since the Holocaust. I think we accept that their aim is to get rid of as much of Hamas as they can to reduce the chances of this happening again in the near future. You aren't willing to suggest what they might do as you're not a military strategist but it would be good to know what someone like yourself would view as a proportional response that would not keep the status quo of this just happening again.