hypochondriac

What's the sensible law? I haven't seen it yet.

The Centre for Identifying Digital Hate identified 105 instagram accounts that directed racial abuse against Rashford, Saka, and Sancho. BBC Newsnight analysed the location of these accounts. Of those they could identify 59 outside the UK, and just 5 within the UK. Hard to think this hasn't been massively overblown. We don't live in a "racist" society. Like every society we have a tiny percentage of idiots and racism is socially unacceptable already. The UK is one of the most tolerant places to live on Earth.

Hard to disagree with that. Its not just racist abuse either, there's been all sorts of death threats and vile abuse against all manner of individuals including some people that it's fashionable to hate like Nigel Farage. I find all that equally objectionable to be honest but I accept that at the moment as the price to pay for a free Internet. I still think what I said earlier about allowing people to only see replies from verified accounts if they want to. That way people have a choice whether they want to run the risk of abuse or not.

But the problem with this proposed law is that it can be selectively ebforced based on the politics of the people holding the levers of power. We have enough of it already online but this would be ten times worse because it would be decided at a governmental level. It would be disastrous in many countries with dodgy human rights records who would just use it as a green light to clamp down harder on their citizens.

I expect his answer will be something about society having to change to be fairer or something like that. It's not an argument I would agree with and everything I have seen is that the taking of the knee doesn't bring reasonable people on board with "the cause." Far better imo to choose an expression that 99.999% would agree with and that everyone can unite fully behind.

All reasonable people who don't send racist abuse to others aren't the problem. The unreasonable racists won't be swayed by taking the knee.

Do we really want to be taking advice for this from the likes of China?

Taking the knee does more than just getting people talking about it. Imo it stokes racial tensions in society and doesn't lead to any greater harmony and actually makes racial tensions a lot worse.

I'm not sure that's true. I think a sizable number don't like the gesture and that virtually everyone would be on board if the gesture was different.

That's a different topic then isn't it. A tiny minority on social media send horrible abuse to all manner of people online including racist abuse and the solution is to end social media? That doesn't seem like a proportional response to me.

I think it's more of a larger narrative. I believe that certain people want control and censorship of the Internet and are hyping this up in order to bring it in. The online harms bill for example is an appaling piece of legislation that is being brought in off the back of this under the pretence of protecting children.

How would you like to see it dealt with? I personally think that focusing on the things that divide us rather than what we have in common and what unites us has made things much worse.

I do wonder what the agenda is of the people pushing this stuff.

Making them publishers would end social media overnight. Certain words and topics will be banned from discussion by bots and context will not be taken into account. It will be a ban first and ask questions later approach which will remove the free Internet. Its a sledgehammer to crack a nut and why would you want to remove that from the entire Internet?

TBF I thought the graffiti was racist. I think that's the implication given that it's been reported alongside the racist abuse online. It's certainly been heavily implied that that was the case and I think the average person reading these articles would have come away with that impression.

Like I said above, I'm very supportive of racist comments getting dealt with properly. I do however question the tactic of widely publicising what is in reality a tiny minority of anonymous idiots online. Much better if the goal is to reduce the number to work behind the scenes to find identities and then publicise the cases at that point rather like how the police are wary about how they report murders for fear of copycat killers.

Kneeling hasn't addressed the issue in any meaningful way. Some people have suggested that it's kept people talking about it but you only have to look on here to see that it hasn't succeeded in changing anyone's minds. Real racists aren't going to be swayed but kneeling players and imo racialising everything and focusing on our differences rather than what we have in common has had disastrous results in America and is seeing similar things here. The only feasible action that I have seen is what I suggested above. Removing Internet anonymity from social media worldwide is a moronic thing to call for.

The best idea I've seen so far is to give people the option to register their identity and then allow people to only see and interact with accounts that have been verified. That way the only people who will ever see anonymous abuse are those who have chosen to and those who can't handle it can instantly turn it off. Everyone's a winner. The problem with the media is they keep hyping up this abuse which simply encourages copycats and the cycle continues. Encourage social media companies to block comments as soon as possible, work hard behind the scenes to find identities where possible and then publicise those who are caught rather than making a song and dance out of the posts at the time because it has the opposite effect from what everyone wants.

Imo throwing out divisive messages for a year and riling up people and also some thick racists and then giving them loads of publicity and practically encouraging abuse has resulted in a rise in racist abuse on social media. The approach of making the England team inclusive and sending the message that it is for all regardless of skin colour was the way to go, not symbols that they know many find divisive and then calling everyone racist when they disagree. I am sure this would have been a much smaller and problem if this campaign hadn't been rumbling on this whole time.

Millions of bans and GCHQ investigations for what the guardian reported today was 140 or so overt racist posts on social media, the majority or which originated overseas? And you call others extremists?

They would just set bots to ban any mention of certain words which would make social media extinct.

Are you mad?

I don't like to talk about it too much but if we get past Germany we really would be favourites to make the final. Even then with France out it's likely to be one of Belgium, Italy or Spain.

Can agree with that. Some players are clearly picked because of their sex and skin colour. I want competent and entertaining pundits where demographics are an irrelevance.

Nope. Savage is horrendous but she was poor as well. Terrible monotone voice it was awful. Gabby is the only female in football at the moment worth listening to. I'm not against female commentators or summarisers but I want good ones. TBF though I'd rather listen to her than Mark Hughes, sourness or Savage.