hypochondriac

Well yes but that's not what I said.

No I called you thick because you either didn't understand what I was saying or chose not to. No one has ever said that someone who has to work for financial reasons or because they have no choice are selfish. Its incredibly selfish and irresponsible though to think that because you have to risk your health by going to work that it's then acceptable to go and visit grandchildren. It isn't.

Are you hard of thinking? Going to work because you have to is not a choice. You are still risking your health but people who are doing it should take all the precautions they can whilst doing so. Meeting up with your grandkids is absolutely a choice and it's that part which is incredibly selfish and potentially dangerous. Just because you have to go to work does not mean it's then fine to potentially spread the disease further by engaging in activities that you choose to do. It's not a contradiction at all. If you are unable to social distance at work then you have my sympathy but if anything that means you should be being more careful outside of work not to come into contact with people from other households.

Part of the problem is the media that are waiting for a slip up or something they can plaster on the front page. Sometimes you get a good question from a journalist but normally it's something ridiculous like asking for a definite timetable for the lockdown when they know they won't be getting an answer.

Individuals freely mixing between households- if that is what is happening- is a direct threat to everyone else and that attitude will be contributing to more deaths and keeping the lockdown going on longer.

What example? People meeting loved ones by definition increases the chances of the virus being spread between households. It's a selfish and irresponsible thing to do and it makes me angry to know that people are deliberately flouting the guidelines because they can't stay inside for a few weeks. Loads of people are doing what they are supposed to be doing and staying home, it's a pity that some people are simply incapable. As someone suggested earlier, maybe those actually being sensible should be the ones given preferential treatment for the disease if it comes to a point where a choice has to be made.

You're either a key worker or have to work for some other reason. Either way, the fact you have to risk your health by going to work doesn't mean you should then be all laissez-faire outside of work, breaking the guidelines and potentially spreading this disease to people who might die from it because you fancy seeing your grandchildren. I know grandparents who are dying to see their grandchildren but they are doing the only thing they should be doing and staying away until the country has some more control. The selfishness of some people is amazing.

No I don't. If you have to go to work then you do because you are a key worker and you have little choice. Whilst doing so you take all reasonable precautions you can. Outside of when you have to go to work you should be inside adhering to the rules which will end this thing quicker and reduce the chance that either yourself or people you love will die from this disease. To do otherwise is selfish, irresponsible and an insult to people that are risking their own health.

So MLG you have now admitted that there are ocassions when prayer can be both "harmless" and even potentially "beneficial." presumably on the occasions when it is harmless and beneficial you wouldn't be opposed to it happening? I can't see why logically you wouldn't be.

In general? But not all the time? So again, is it conceivable that there exists an adult who prays, gets comfort and is equally as harmless as a child believing in the tooth fairy? And with regards to my second question, it sounds like you have agreed that prayer does not always make you more gullible and can in fact be beneficial because it makes someone who is gullible less gullible?

If a child believing in the tooth fairy is harmless as you claim it to be, is it not conceivable that an adult deriving comfort from a prayer could be equally harmless? If a gullible person prays or doesn't pray, does the act of praying make them more gullible in every case or could it actually be the case that praying could lead to disillusionment and actually make them less gullible as a result?

Not necessarily. Maybe the times when prayer doesn't work will make me question the validity of prayer and make me less gullible.

Even if I didn't pray I would have the exact same level of gullibility as you describe it. My decision to say a prayer hasn't made me any more gullible than I was pre-prayer. You have already admitted that it's conceivable that someone deriving comfort from a prayer can be harmless in the same way that a child believing in the tooth fairy is so what's the argument?

Only if the prayer works.

So the answer is you can't say that it would impact their actions to any great degree. The question is: is it possible for someone to derive comfort from prayer and that action be harmless to others? And the answer to that is yes.

I could pray that it would be a sunny day so I could enjoy the sunshine in my garden. That impacts no one other than myself.

How do you know for certain that someone who finds comfort in a prayer has their behaviour impacted by that to a greater extent than a child believing in the tooth fairy?

But surely by that logic the Easter bunny, father Christmas and Disney characters are not harmless since they impact on actions and would have a detrimental effect on society as a whole

Right so a prayer which brings comfort to someone that isn't followed up by other things is harmless.

Tbf you cannot actually tell that we all experience reality in the same way.

Do you advocate the removal of the Easter bunny, father Christmas and the tooth fairy from polite society? Should we be shouting at the character actors at Disneyland and telling all the five year olds that they are just randomers dressing up?

So should we be doing away with the Easter bunny and santa Claus? After all we wouldn't want people potentially being guillable in later life would we? Perish the thought.

My cousin loves santa Claus. It comforts him to believe in santa and the presents he might get at Christmas. I'm going to make sure he knows that santa isn't real and he's a fool for deriving false comfort from somethibg that doesn't manifest in reality. How dare he.

We've got to be careful. We can't have people feeling a false sense of peace and love. We need to expose those falsehoods and make sure they feel very real feelings of disquiet and shame.

Lol. What's false comfort? You either feel comfort and all the potential benefits that can have both physically and emotionally or you don't. Would you rather that the person praying derived no comfort from it at all just to make you feel better about how false the comfort they felt was? I know you have real trouble with the concept of emotions but most people can work it out.