NickG

Apparently anyone thinking saints can aspire to 6-8th and thinks we are good enough for top 12 is " seriously deluded" . Still guess Cortese will look at the fact for the last 3/4 of the season we have been 8th best side in prem and will want to be realistic and aim to get worse next season, after all he wouldn't want to look a prat to Turkish and think we can carry on and maybe even improve! Back to more realistic posters.... Reckon will be pretty obvious in transfer window where NC views us - can't see wholesale changes ( new contracts recently for several players suggests wants to keep the core together). But if he is seriously aiming for the top we will see top 6 standard signings. Do think club will keep to younger developing players rather than experienced names. Exciting times

Difference is, I said I can imagine you saying. You are saying it is deluded to aim for us to carry on as he have for last 5 months. Just pointing out how rather than deluded, aiming for continuation or improvement is reasonable. Aiming lower is bit strange. Anyway, maybe you will apologise for your "seriously deluded" type comments, and realise you are being bit silly. Either way, that's my posts for day and a beer awaits. Enjoy.

Fair enough. Guess you can't answer or justify your digs so is just trolling. Who thinks we will finish 6th? You know I didn't say that so not sure why you think relevant? Doubt any team who escapes relegation doesnt aim to improve the next season. You still think the 90% on here who think we should aim for same or better are seriously deluded and the realistic aim in land of Turkish is to try really hard to develop young players do they can drop their performance? Can imagine you end of season talk, telling the young squad how well they have settled, improved as individuals and a team, next season will be more experienced, a year closer to their peak, new manager... Our target ...to drop our performance level. Lol.

Do think your posts, where you lack any respect for others opinions and lie to try to start argument are a bit strange. Won't get personal, as the trouble with the Internet is, for all I know I'm getting into a personal argument with a 12 year old with learning difficulties ( not saying you are for a moment) but risks of debating with strange people on internet). Nearly all posters on here either agreed with me or were more optimistic. I said a realistic TARGET of 6-9th with current squad. Realistically expecting top 12 finish. You think all of us are " seriously deluded " for some reason, personally I think you are unrealistic and have a negative view of our players ability, and their ability to improve further. To give some weight my view....from the real world...I looked at how we have performed over last few months...taking current form bit further. I was surprised we were so high, so looked back further until October. I was impressed to see that over last 5 months, 23 games, the league table is; Man U Man C Spurs arsenal Liverpool Everton Chelsea SAINTS Over about 2/3 of a season we have been the 8th best side. Why would it be deluded to AIM to continue this performance (its 5 months so not a blip)? It maybe that a team of 22/23 years olds will not improve. We maybe worse next season. But surely only a fool would aim to be worse? Or is that what you think? [To preempt your reply...I clearly said target 6-9th (or continue at our current level) and would finish in top 12. I have also never said our squad is league 1 standard players, another of your lies frequently corrected with quotes, so maybe stick to answering post not your made up personal trolling ]

Reckon 37 will have good chance of putting us above all of Wigan, Sunderland and Villa. Maybe one of them will hit that figure but doubt all three, can see one of those at least being below 35. Reckon one win could be plenty, not just to stay up but to be safe before last weekend. Noticed that since Arry arrived QPR haven't gained points on any of teams they needed to for safety, infact couple, including us, dropped considerably further away.

Why? If I was a player fair enough. I have never thought we will be relegated, certainly don't now. My prediction was top 12 BTW. Discuss or ignore and let others discuss maybe?

What is your personal view on a fair target league placing for this current squad next season? As we sit 12th after the start we had, not having Yoshida, Ramirez and Boruc at start of season, rapid development of Clyne, Shaw, Rodriguez, plus players like Cork, Morgan, Puncheon, Ramirez, Lallana still under peak ages... I would look at target of 6-9th with likely finish above 13th. Turkish describes this as 'seriously deluded'. Maybe, but my opinion. What are other's views?

Fair enough, all about opinions and subjective. However if you would have preferred a 'Hurlock' over Ramirez we are unlikely to agree on type of player or football we want to pay to see.

A young skilful attacking midfielder is always likely to cost more than other more defensive positions. Particularly 21 year old with 14 caps. If money stopped us signing a CB and keeper then would view his fee differently. Not saying it didn't just doubt it. His cost, (fee and wages) maybe (my guess is it probably will be) a fair one when judged at end of contract or his sale. Of course the 20 odd games so far are not worth £12m...but unless he is about to leave on free its not time to judge. Comments about him by Lambert and Neville show how his quality, sometimes subtle, is worth having. Performances mixed, some disappointing, but 4 goals, 3 assists and his quality play at times mean he has been decent addition to the club. I can see why his inconsistencies and fact he is more likely to flick ball between defenders to create something, than chase around like terry hurlock mean he is not everyone's favourite

Fair point IF any lack of spending elsewhere was due to signing him, personally doubt it was. Otherwise fact is he is good player and improved us, views differ on extent

Agree about CB, as much as like cultured defenders think through season need strong leader of defence - big character and physically. Claus looked good with one alongside him, improved Fonte when Jos settled, Yoshida could prove to be very good with a top partner - is Forren commanding type? Full-backs - first choice plenty good enough. Cover is weak, as others pointed out what level will come to club our size as back up to 17 and 20 year olds? Agree would want improvement but no idea what age/level. Requirements for midfield are harder for me to say now we have so many formations. 2 CM and 2 wide was simple! Reckon CM both first pair and back up pair good enough for top half. Forwards Lambert, Rodriguez, Ramirez, and Mayuka looked good range...but Mayuka?? Wide midfield probably would be my priority not sure its best position for Ramirez. Would like a top attacking player to improve team, plus a young fast player player...impact sub to use an Adkins term. Think current squad fair aim - 6th to 9th, most likely 8-13th. Will be interesting to see ambitions when start seeing ins/outs. Sure stats can show some teams who look like they are moving forward, optimistic for season, will hugely under perform and vice versa!

There is no need to be disrespectful to other posters. Try just replying to post. Doubt anyone thinks we should stick just with what we have, or that it is likely. You say we could make top half if we added several key players - if we add several key players it won't be with the aim of scraping few places higher. If squad stays together - next season when players are older, more settled etc, still improving in many cases, where do you think they would aim/achieve? Top half?

We are 5 points of top half now, after poor start, during the season we have added Boruc, Shaw, Yoshida, Ramirez etc. About 8 of first choice 11 are under 24 so should get a lot better next season. I don't see why this squad couldn't finish top half with out adding anyone.

???? Really?? Morgan two years ago was better than Prutton at his best. Not even close IMHO. Although Neimi was more consistent and for longer, in basic ability its open for debate. Neimi for me tho. I would take all current four midfielders

The big unknown, but exciting factors for our next few years is the development and retention of our young players. Not all of them will stay, not all of them will reach the level we may hope, but looking at the squad we had in 03/04 but it is possible these current players will be better. Boruc > Neimi Clyne > Dodd Yoshida > Claus Forren > Svensson Shaw > Higginbottom Schneiderlin > Prutton Cork > Delap Lallana > Fernandez Ramirez > Telfer Rodriguez >Phillips Lambert > Beattie Several of our current, young, players could develop and end up being the best we have had for 20 plus years. Retain them, add top players we could progress rapidly. All signs are that Cortese wants us as top 6 team, I suspect the recruitment policy will be now seeking players for that level.

I struggle with some of your logic Barry. Whilst player performance is, to some extent, subjective, I disagree with you righting Ramirez off for several reasons. 1) top managers acknowledge that overseas players, typically young ones, do not fulfill their potential in their first season in the country. 2) Ramirez is still young. He is younger than Lallana, Cork, Morgan, Rodriguez and Mayuka! 3) saints didn't pay his transfer fee viewing it as a fair price for a season. The fee considers service for the length of a contract and any fee gained should he leave. Of course he hasn't been value for his total fee yet. 4) I also think he has been decent for us. I have been disappointed that he hasn't performed as I hoped he would after watching him in the home game v Aston Villa. He is intelligent, sees passes others don't, brave in wanting possession. He is not a headless chicken, quite subtle at times. Watch games and see how a quick pass, finding space changes games. I also don't understand why signing Forren is already classed, by you, as unwise? Again he is young - 25 for CB, international. Since he signed we have been doing well and he hasn't been used. So? Would you rather start next season with the only CB cover a 30 year old? Or introduce a young international into the squad? Luxury player? Not sure what that means...you would rather Robbie Savage? Personally I pay my money to see luxury players.... Seem to remember last time in premier league we had a decent one! Experienced prem players? Much rather the club had exciting skilled squad, improving and with an eye on the future, rather than average journeymen players who you feel special having plodded in the 'unique' football of prem. You mention Ferguson...he is not against buying young foreign talent and showing patience.

Hope club are aiming for top 6, signs are that we are. Not unrealistic target

Just for clarity... Mayuka..... Transfer committee Lambert..... Pardew.

Think the valuations of first team players are about right. Reckon players who are in the group that don't have first team future are being valued too high - partly as they are older/not that great and partly is we are happy to trim them from the squad we won't be making huge demands. Think its a shame the lack of respect a few posters show to others opinions on here. No-one can say with confidence how much Shaw, Lallana, Morgan, Lambert etc would go for - there are random low fees, and there are Torres/Carroll type fees. A WHU fan said last night that he was disappointed as due to new contract they would not be able to afford Lambert and may have to stick with signing Carroll. Ho knows?! Before mocking remember.. Samba 28 years, CB, £12m Jarvis £10m Carroll £35m Torres £50m Rio F £30m in 2002 Bebe £7m played hardly at all Kevin Davies £7.5m when we sold as 21yr to Blackburn Francis Jeffers £8m Glen Johnson £17m 5 years ago (on last game would put both our fullbacks in 60-80m range ) Jordan Henderson £20m Downing £20m Joe Allen £15m Ramirez £12m Connor Wickham £12m Charlie Adam £8m Clearly £15-20m isn't ridiculous valuation for Morgan. Reviews he is getting. Amount of first team experience at young age Young Wants to be here / we want him Long contract We don't need to sell All stats / reports put him at all round cm - fit, energetic, tackles, intercepts, cover ground Now added goals So Barry, reckon some basis for £20m to get him from us. Do you late him lower? Worse investment than older, less able, less involved player like Adam?

Perhaps moving on from CB's mistake... Three things I think this shows to me.. 1) people saying Wigan's form will keep them up..its probably not good enough yet. Wigan/Reading/QPR look the most likely both on league table and how they are doing. 2) Sunderland, not included all season when discussing relegation are now highly risky. 3) not one team in bottom half can relax and think they can cruise home.

Find an error I made (not your usual trolling made-up, mis-quoting out of context spoiling) will gladly admit it and back down. You know you have been corrected on the one you raise so won't rise to the trolling. If you dont like threads like this and find them boring few simple tips.. If you don't like my threads, too dull for your gripping life...don't open one you can see I started If you don't like stats don't open one with stats in title. Stats help paint a picture, give some information....for example this proves West Ham are still potential relegation candidates. Alternatively, admit you love it and that is you read with interest and post twice for your gripping enjoyment

At best he worded it badly and then stubbornly and aggressively stuck with his error, not big deal but can't then be surprised that people pick him up only. If he said initially that he didn't think West Ham would be relegated or just couldn't see them even getting close to being drawn into it then most would agree, all would get his point. But he didn't. What he says is wrong. They are not as safe as man U, even with half a brain anyone else can see that. I think they will be well clear, but if they get 0 or 1 point from next game they will worry. Their message board has loads saying they aren't safe. If you could get odds on man U staying up you would bet all your savings. We know he wouldn't bet all his savings that West Ham stay up and he knows they don't have same chance of being relegated. Bet no-one would have problem with his opinions, only recently noticed him but he does seem stressy and argumentative.

.... If teams continue with the same current form for their remaining games - teams with 8 games left gain the same amount of points as they have over the last 8, those with 9, the amount of points they have gained over the last 9. The final table will look like this... Newcastle 45 Norwich 42 Aston Villa 41 Saints 40 West Ham 40 Stoke 39 Sunderland 37 Wigan 36 QPR 32 Reading 27 Safe as West Ham, therefore as safe as Man U? Current form quickly changes - Aston Villa look good due to winning last two games against Reading and QPR. Also takes no account with how easy or hard games left are (not that ours is logical QPR/Man C/ Liverpool?) Don't think that will be that close to how it will ends but shows - all those teams could easily be dragged into it - lose two games in a row now and pressure will be on for any of us. 37/38 will probably be enough.

Surprised at West Ham's - particularly compared with Newcastle. (Guess Man U are £16.70? )

In the wider world outside saints web... Record attendance Glowing reports on players and managers Know what you are getting at but there is strong case to say not in mess