derry

Half the players are on about £320, another third about £500, and the others between £500 and £800. Some I believe don't work during the season and I understand they don't get paid out of season.

Quite, but to do that we have to break the mould.

Formations in themselves are not that important. 4-4-2 is probably the easiest to understand and play. The narrow diamond midfield last year was played by us without any understanding by the players, together with 4-5-1, 4-2-2-1-1, 4-3-3 which are flexible formations that require awareness from the players to play in a flexible interchanging way making sure the team plays with width. We don't do this, we pick a formation and stay rigidly narrow. Against Ajax we just sat back and invited them to pick us apart. Which they did. Anybody know what formation Ajax played? Second question can anybody remember the last time this approach to pre season gave us a successful start? We are one of the worst teams in the country at the start of the season. Let's hope Pardew knocks that on the head, and the 10 points deficit acts as an incentive to get results.

Last Saturday we surrendered and accepted defeat before the match even started. The press, the tv, a big crowd, the new manager and most importantly the new owner at his first match. What did we do, picked a side and formation that couldn't compete and tried to keep the score down. On that day something else was needed to fuel the optimism certainly not accepting defeat. Last night I watched a little Irish part time team take on Real Madrid including Ronaldo and give it a right go losing 1-0. Over the years I've watched little clubs every season turning over big clubs in the cups, they didn't do it by surrendering, they gave it their best shot. We don't seem to know how to give it our best shot, the smell of apathy and defeat is all over St Mary's. Alan Pardew sounds as though he comes from the right school with a we are going to win attitude. For thirty years under Ted and Lawrie every Saints side gave it their best shot win, lose, or draw that is what I demand from them from now on. As a supporter I've had enough of coming to St Mary's week in, week out and watching players and managers going through the motions. Last Saturday was a disgrace and should be seen as such, if it hadn't been for Kelvin Davis Ajax could have got 10 with a defensive formation FFS. The simple fact is Henderson bottled it, the team should have been set up 4-4-2 and given it a go. Any coach or player who doesn't grasp this should be cleared out now and I'm hope will be.

Sport psychology, simple framework I'm beginning to warm to him. He seems to believe in everything we aren't. Our lot are in for a steep learning curve and a few are going to disappear without trace.

Absolutely.

His comments about Wotton beggered belief. His system was awful and negative. The result and I'm not talking about the score was predictable. The results of his years of work in the academy are McGoldrick and Lallana not able to kick the ball properly, Lallana couldn't even clear the first defender with his corners. Lancashire doesn't seem to know how to defend. Worse still there is no natural tactical awareness from the young players which I find appalling considering the time they have been coached at the club. They are now going to undergo an inquisition on both the playing and coaching side and by all accounts their technical education is being found to be sub standard.

I don't know the fitness coach, but it looked like Hockaday doing the warm up and half time with the subs.

He was mentioned in the quoted post. The stupidity was all down to Henderson and I bet it hasn't gone unnoticed.

I was surprised to see Hockaday back if it was Hockaday, to be truthful I'd like to see a complete clearout and start again. I don't have any time for the sort of stupidity shown on Saturday and the comments in the Echo. I just don't understand how kids who spend many years in the academy, show a complete lack of awareness for general football positioning, tactics and their demands, together with not able to carry out simple tasks such as dead ball kicking and shooting.

You've hit on the real problem. Coaches not managers. Successful managers allow the players to use their abilities freely by having a simple framework. The players are put into their best positions, complement each other and the overall output is greater than the sum of the parts. On the other hand coaches deal in minutiae, detailed instructions and dossiers. The players are often played out of position to maintain a favoured system and have detailed roles that many are unable to fulfill. The team itself underachieves as the players are hamstrung by the system. That is why these teams are mostly unsuccessful.

I'm not looking for success just evidence of drastic change in the pipeline. I will see that in an instant if it is there, that is what I am looking forward to. He strikes me as a man in a hurry, I don't expect a lot of leeway for those that can't cope.

After Saturday especially SH.

What is wrong with our deluded coaches is summed up in the following assessment of Paul Wotton's game on Saturday. "Paul Wotton had a very good first half, both defensively and his simple use of the ball. He did what I asked him to and played his position very well" With coaches like him we don't need opponents. Wotton on Saturday was awful. Most of his 'simple' passes went to the opposition time after time, his marking was non existent, he consistently gave free kicks away, he disrupted his own midfield and got in the way of the centre backs attacking the ball. If he never played for us again it would be too soon. If this is the man running the academy no wonder the players are now struggling. The mere fact Lallana/McGoldrick don't cleanly strike the ball is a massive indictment in itself. It wouldn't surprise me to see him and the other coaches dispensed with as their contracts run out or even earlier.

I'm expecting casualties amongst the coaching staff, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a complete clear out from the academy upwards.

I have been absolutely appalled at the level of knowledge put into practice by the coaches/managers for the last three years. We have been an underachieving team mainly down to a lack of proper tactics and poor direction and motivation. FFS which successful team at any level doesn't use all the width available. After 10 years in the academy not to be able to deliver a dead ball cross is scandalous. Lallana failed to pass the first defender again on Saturday and this happened all last season.

At last, what he is doing is great. Our players knowledge and positional play is abysmal, they have a complete lack of awareness and it is brilliant that he is picking up on this. It is important he rattles them early on and imposes his standards on them. I'm looking forward to Saturday now to see if there is a measureable difference and whether our width, effort, and delivery have been improved. I would like to see what formation he settles on, however it is more important to use the width of the pitch and play at a high tempo with determination and confidence.

If we want to play a front sweeper he has to have a pass completion rate approaching 100% not 10% and be astute enough to not give too many free kicks away. HCDAJFU.

Talk about straying from the topic. Weston publishes a link into a corrected article about Lowe, 19c for some reason hits on McMenemy then we have three pages of free for all with nothing to do with the thread.

When a young player with pace comes on he should be put into his proper position and left to play in the broad framework without detailed instructions. Henderson spent 5 mins telling him how he wanted to play, then put him on the left side out of position to help Mills with the pace of Rommedahl. No wonder the poor lad found it difficult. There are too many coaches like Henderson that couldn't win a raffle if they had the only ticket. They are totally wrapped up in the technicalities, and totally ignore the big picture. They move players around on their chessboard and expect them to play to defined detailed instructions which just reduces the effectiveness of the team. With this attitude except for Kelvin Davis's brilliant shot stopping we could have lost 10-1. Yesterday was an ideal opportunity to take on a big team and give them a scare. What did we do, run up the white flag, play two left backs, Wotton as a front sweeper, every tackle a foul, nobody picked up, disrupted our midfield, stopped the centre backs attacking the ball, and a pass completion about 10%, played the whole game FFS. We then occupied our half and let Ajax have the ball to pick us apart using the full width of the pitch. Nearly every time we won the ball Wotton gave it back. The safety first, one forward approach was a nonsense because it didn't work. We needed to play 4-4-2, every player in his proper position and give it a go. Two banks of four with the two Poles up front occupying the full width would have caused Ajax a lot more problems than we did. Coaches are a commonly a bloody liability and make awful managers in the main, as they have no idea how to pick a balanced team, because they ignore common sense and theorise too much.

Yes, a bunch of blithering idiots who haven't a bloody clue. I'm out of patience with this crap, Pardew better get a grip quickly and start walking the walk, we've had too many plonkers just doing the talk in the last few years. It's now either get results or get out. I wouldn't mind betting a lot feel the same way as I do.

FFS Steve we had a four man midfield completely bypassed, plus a totally inneffective Wotton giving the ball back to the opposition or fouling. He played like an Italian cop on point duty. If Wotton hadn't been there we would have been much better as he stopped the centre backs attacking the ball and disrupted our midfield. Also if we had left out Molyneaux and played a second striker, it would have improved things . A proper wide 4-4-2 would have been much more effective, even with 5 in the middle we were really narrow and allowed Ajax to get down the flanks.

Spot on about the setup, we threw in the towel, raised the white flag and accepted that we weren't going to give them a game, instead of playing 4-4-2 and only one left back and having a right go. The coaching side needs a proper clearout as well. Wotton was awful, yes he made one pass, gave away more than 9 out of 10 of the rest, gave plenty of free kicks away, stopped the centre backs attacking the ball and disrupted the flow of the midfield by gifting the possession to the opposition time after time. Hopefully this is his last game for us.

Where the hell do we get these bloody incompetent clowns of coaches that pick these sides. I shudder to think if this is the sort of thinking from the coach running the academy, no wonder the youngsters have problems understanding how to play. Ajax played with touchline to touchline width instead of copying them our geniuses play any way but. As for Wotton attempting to imitate an Italian traffic cop arm waving, gestures etc whilst giving a totally incompetent display allegedly holding in front of the back four. Apart from his usual high percentage of fouls, all he succeeded in doing, was giving the ball back to Ajax nine times out of ten, wandering about in between the Ajax players picking up nobody. His incompetent display disrupted the midfield and stopped the centre backs coming out and attacking the ball. Mills did well and looked useful at left back, we needed two up front and two banks of four. One up front with everybody funneling back was awful. Gillett was fine but James was poor in midfield but Wotton didn't help matters. If we are going to play a holding player they have to attack the ball and have a nearly 100% passing success rate not 10%. Murty looked useful, I just hope he hasn't done his knee. Pardew has a lot to do yet and a lot of changing of the way we have been playing. Wotton just cannot be played in a five man midfield.

You are not wrong, they say their bit and shout down any other view. Their loudmouth anarchistic behaviour at meetings has made them a very small group.