CanadaSaint

The circle of people concerned about how NC is handling things is much broader than you and Secret Site Agent seem willing to acknowledge, which makes you just as guilty of believing "that (your) viewpoint is the right viewpoint." We're not all as vocal as Dune or Stu or Hypo, and we're not all as "anti-Cortese" as they seem to be, but we hold what we believe to be valid concerns. I think we truly have the ability to become one of the country's leading clubs under Liebherr and Cortese, but I also think that Nicola needs to make some adjustments in his personal approach if that's to happen. If he doesn't, this isn't going to end well - for any of us who love the Club, so there's a good argument that blind allegiance is a dangerous thing. Why is it that every dicussion on this forum degenerates into "Us versus Them" and "Luvvies versus Haters" - along with all the associated sneering and sarcasm - when there's a legitimate discussion to be had? I'm another one on the point of giving up on this forum because of this kind of immature sniping.

I think that's exactly what he's doing - or, more to the point, what he thinks he's doing. And I wish him well with it because English football is unsustainable in its current form. But there are - as usual - some "howevers". Firstly, his vision of sustainable football in the future is likely to see games priced out of the reach of some of the current fan base. The signs are already there. Secondly, his plan can only be achieved if we enjoy success on the pitch - so don't expect too much patience on the Pardew front; I suspect he feels that he's already shown too much. Thirdly, he (like Rupert) wants to upgrade the Academy so that we develop more from within rather than pay ludicrous transfer and agents' fees. Fourthly, and this is where I have the biggest worries, his impulsive and confrontational nature is starting to lose him support among the very people whose support he'll need in order to succeed. (Or, viewed another way, he's p*ssing off people who can make life difficult for him if they don't like him.) He has arguably p*ssed off much of the fan base, the media, his fellow chairmen, many of the SMS staff, some the club's historical icons, and a number of others. He has even (allegedly) fallen out with the redevelopers of Staplewood (and delayed a key part of his plan), and firing Pardew (even if he deserves it) would cause good managers to think twice about coming here. I want Cortese to succeed as much as anyone, but he needs to pause, ponder and make some significant adjustments in his approach. He would demand exactly that from Pardew if things weren't going so well. He needs to apply the same standards to himself.

Couldn't agree more. People keep saying that the delivery was great but IMO it wasn't. Delivery has to be geared to the recipient, and many of our final balls - especially the high crosses - may have been crisp but they weren't geared to the two who were playing up front today. That could and should have been sorted out tactically but I think AP may well have been out-coached at half time.

So, last year's inability to break down defensive teams (and, God, are we going to see a lot of those this year) remains uncorrected. Jaidi is even slower (in thought and action) than he was last year, and that's going to kill us again and again. We still use three passes instead of two. Our final delivery from wide remains poor. Unless those ongoing problems from last year are corrected we will fall short - even when Ricky comes back. We're a team with more style than substance. I don't think that's what Cortese had in mind.

Imagine the mess that Dave Merrington could make of that.

Good topic, SSA. To me he's an intriguing combination of family man, banker, businessman and football fan. Depending on the time, a different one of those can come to the fore - including a really p*ssed off football fan if we drop points we shouldn't have dropped. Psychologically, I think he's a visionary, he's decisive and he's egotistical. He doesn't tolerate fools gladly and he despises weakness, disloyalty and loose lips. I have no doubt that he's working to a plan - to succeed in a fiscally responsible and sustainable way, not just by constantly throwing money at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. Like Rupert, he doesn't like paying transfer fees and - even less - agents' fees. He'd rather sign free agents and bring players through the academy system - because that gets us away from two of football’s biggest financial killers – big transfer fees and ludicrous wages. That’s why Stapelwood is such a high priority for him. When it comes to the other things he's doing, I think he's taking a page out of the airlines' book. The price for the basic service is affordable but look-out if you want any extras - extended payment plans, parking, memorabilia, food & beverage and so on. If people are moaning about this stuff now, give it a while – I think he has many more plans like this. He wants to increase the average spend per supporter significantly because that's the way to sustainable success - not finding a sugar daddy. He’ll never say this publicly but I suspect he’s quite willing to accept that some long-time fans just won’t be able to afford to go to football in the future. In fact, the combination of visionary and egotist is probably working together to make him - at least in his own mind at this point - the man who will lead football to a more sane and sustainable future. And that might be exactly why his PR skills are so lacking. He doesn’t care whether you agree with him.

I'm just questioning whether the strengthening will happen while Pardew's there if it hasn't started already. And that's just for problem positions - it doesn't even touch on the lost width and pace, or or derry's valid point about squad depth. My biggest fear is that it won't happen while AP is there because NC still has big doubts about him - and, as usual, NC is convinced he's right and intends to prove it. I hope like hell that I'm wrong, and I'd love to see a couple of big signings within the next week or so, but until then you can put me in the "very concerned" camp.

From darned near everything I've read on these boards, the two problem positions that prevented us from succeeding last year (RB and CM) have not seen any strengthening, and we appear to have lost two key components for vital width - Papa Waigo and Antonio. Without seeing the team play (I will in September) I'd say that without any strengthening we shouldn't expect much more than top eight. Don't forget how competitive this division was last year, and that's likely to still be the case this year.

I'm ready for the inbound, dune. I did say "If", and it's only an opinion, but it's been a fear of mine for months - that we'd live in a void with Cortese backing Pardew but not really backing him. The status quo, squad-wise, could produce an "okay" start to the season (comfortable top eight) but not a solid automatic promotion spot. Then what do we do? The only thing that makes me lean away from that view is the question "If NC is keeping a tight rein on AP's transfer activity, why would he let him sign yet another LB?"

Yes, I'm mildly concerned. I'm hoping that the lack of news/rumour is down to the number of column inches devoted to the World Cup. However, a fear I've expressed before is that if NC really wanted to ditch AP last season but backed off because of fan and media pressure, he might not fully back him at the start of this season. Instead, he'd hold back some - perhaps much - of the transfer budget because he expects to fire Pardew after a disappointing start and wants to save the budget for the new guy. I'm willing to be a little more patient, but the longer this goes on the more likely that scenario becomes.

This is starting to sound quite worrying. It seems to me that a number of Cortese's actions in past months are all about financial responsibility and sustainability - becoming and staying profitable. Not just "when we get back to the Prem" but right now as well. The decision not to fire AP (at significant cost), the season ticket changes, the Staplewood delay, the lengthy list of released players, the lack of progress on signings and several other things would all fit into that pattern. I wonder if he reached a lot of those decisions after seeing the interim finances. He's not doing this stuff to please or p*ss off the fans but he might be doing them to keep the finances strong. Now if that's the case I'm not going to knock him because I think this is what football in general needs to do, but it would mean that having a "minted" owner is kind of irrelevant at the moment. It would also mean that we'll go into this season without the big advantage we've been hoping for. If we sell any starters, the picture would be clear. God forbid. Just some thoughts.

Instead of sneering at people who don't share your view, and posting examples that - in your view - make your point, could you respond to the question I posed in Post 662? I'm interested to see how your viewpoint stands up in a drunk driving case.

How about having too many beers and driving a car? If you're caught, that will result in a driving ban and - depending on your work arrangements - the loss of your job. You caused no damage and didn't hurt anyone, but you were punished for what MIGHT have happened, given your stupidity and contempt for the law. The level of your punishment is based on society's revulsion for that particular offence. I can see the parallels. And I have no problem at all with any of that - even if, on the barest of facts - it might seem harsh.

As I recall it, he served 36 years with Brazilian football on his doorstep. That'll teach him not to rob trains!

If it's allowed under the pen(is)al code, I'm all for it. And if it's not, I'm all for changing the penal code. You might be on a loser with that example.

But when you think about it, the harsh approach is working, isn't it? After all, here we are, still discussing it 560 posts after it was first raised. Now there's even more reason for people to realize that even minor public order offences at games will not be tolerated.

Surely, though, the point is that this doesn't matter when there's a broader societal point to be made. That enables the authorities to be inconsistent and even unfair in their efforts to make that point. Every so often the pressure to punish severely - as a clear deterrent - will crop up in a new area, and apparently harsh punishments will be meted out. Tough on those found guilty but - after all these years of enforcement - they can't claim that they weren't aware of the risks.

I'm shocked and somewhat disgusted that this angle has not been pursued more relentlessly by the public or the media. This isn't about some relatively minor offenders (this time, anyway) being harshly treated; as far as I'm concerned, every clear signal that this kind of behaviour won't be tolerated is welcome. It makes the message to the idiots very simple - stay the hell away from trouble. What it IS about, in my view, is the fact that police irresponsibility could have endangered innocents. A lot of normal people, including kids, could have been hurt by the ridiculous decision to release the fans simultaneously, and someone needs to account for it.

I haven't followed this thing too closely because there has been far too much needless sniping going on. However, when we were told that there was a five year plan to return to the Premier League, I don't think the "planners" were thinking just about boosting the playing and coaching resources, including the academy. I would be surprised if one thread of the plan wasn't concerned with starting the transition on the supporter side as well, which means a gradual and quite significant increase in attendance and average ticket prices/average spend at games. Expect more of this stuff. They're doing it as part of a bigger plan to reach the Premier League in good, sustainable financial shape - not to p*ss off the supporters. Have they announced the concession prices yet?

I tried to google the article, with no success, so I entered the following search term (with no inverted commas): sunday telegraph+perfectly nice club with decent fans Check it and see what comes up. Freaky and hilarious at the same time.

That is precisely my frustration with this discussion, as it was with the discussion when Cortese banned the Echo and, allegedly, Benali. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm very happy that we have Cortese but I can't just join in with the "songs of praise" chorus when he clearly has some of the same characteristics that caused many of the same posters to (rightly) savage Lowe. Some of those singing his praises will turn on him very quickly if frustrations develop - as a few already did, if the Wembley booing was aimed at him. Just because some of us keep mentioning that in order to counterbalance what we see as blind praise doesn't make us anti-Cortese by any means. I'm certainly not - far from it. It would just be nice to see lower highs and higher lows on this forum, but we know that's not going to happen!

I can't wait to hear they've started because that's a fairly clear sign that Nicola and Markus are here for the longer term.

Not to mention fumbling through the pick-overs that no other teams wanted. I'm sure those days are well behind us and I reckon that things will start very soon, when players/managers have returned from their holidays.

I'm a little surprised as well but I think it's that drastic precisely because he (and his team) DO know what they're doing. They know who's out of contract at other clubs and have an idea of others in higher leagues who might not be retained or might become available for transfer. I suspect they have names (first choice and fallbacks) pencilled into most of those spots. What pleases me, though, is that he sees most of the same squad weaknesses that the more thoughtful posters on here see. And another thing. AP probably wouldn't be ditching some of these players unless he knew that significant Summer funds would be there.

Absolutely. We need them to cover these issues - not shy away because they fear Cortese's reaction. What the hell kind of journalism would that be? Using their own 'logic', the people telling the Echo to STFU shouldn't be responding to the controversy by posting pro-Pardew opinions on here, singing pro-Pardew songs, or booing Cortese at Wembley. All of these things are the checks and balances that help to keep things on the straight and narrow. And Cortese sees them and reads things into them just as we all do.