egg

That's a very long way to say that you want less immigration, and that more people = more crime. We're going nowhere here so I'll tap out.

Saying that more people= more crime is stating the obvious. That's an inevitability if a growing population, however it grows. I took your original point to be a suggestion that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than non immigrants. If that was your point, it's incorrect.

A percentage of everyone in society will commit crime, and immigrants aren't more likely to commit crime than others. The immigration issue is an issue, but the immigrant crime point is a red herring.

And "angry in a moment" that he chose to involve himself in. Not easy to mitigate for a bloke like that though.

3 years for that charmer.

They're linked only in that some yobs see the immigration issue as a(nother) reason/excuse to be violent. No normal person, with an issue about immigration, links that problem to violence. You've seen the form of some of those toe rags sentenced today. Absolute stains on society who saw an opportunity and took it.

They're entirely different issues, and violent disorder must be addressed strongly, especially if it's possibly the tip of an iceberg.

Appointment

I agree that most of us are actually on the same page, albeit we come at it from different angels. And yep, it's incredibly sad, and it's hard to envisage a cheery ending.

I prefer the judge's approach. The police should be protected from violence. Dislike them, sure, hate them if you must, but acting on that with abuse or violence has no place.

I was with you until the last bit. There's no "rather" about dealing with violent protestors, but a necessity.

The interesting thing is I don't think anyone on here has labelled you. I recall you doing it to yourself on occasions, including self describing yourself as islamophobic or similar - apologies If I remembered the wrong word that you sued. You don't strike me as that though and your views generally don't present as extreme.

I get all of that. There's no easy solution, and the fact that isolated (but appalling) incidents are sending people over the edge, tells a story. That said, the Southampton protests were not about stopping immigration: it started with shouts of "get them out", so directed at people already here, and the Belfast protests saw the homes of settled black people being targeted. Immigration is a factor, but just one - the judge in Southampton crown court today nailed when he said "This violence was hate crime, borne out of hatred of the police and in some cases racist views,"

Oh come on, you're brighter than that. Lots of people (me included) have an issue with our level of immigration, legal and otherwise. However, the vast majority of people realise that sounding off about it on SM, and especially inciting or insinuating violence, doesn't address the issue - that's the nonsense I'm talking about, not the underlying issue. You either have your head in the sand or buried up your arse if you don't see that SM plays a huge part in the violent protests that we're seeing. You're looking at just the issue just as you see it, not all the issues individually and then in the round.

It's not being said. It's a perception.