egg

Had Boro beaten us the sanction would have been points this season. I think that's a given. Having beaten Boro, they couldn't have given us points simply because had we won at Wembley, those points wouldn't have been imposed in the PL, and we'd essentially have escaped any penalty. That, essentially, is where our legal team got it wrong. They offered the panel no alternative sporting penalty to the expulsion.

I'll leave it mate. I can't be going round in circles with someone who'll only see what he wants to see.

You can't plan when to dive in a football match. You can plan when to spy. Seriously mate, you're comparing a carrot to a steak here.

They're worlds apart, and I'm staggered that anyone seriously thinks there's equivalent premeditation between going down in a situation in a football match that you can't foresee, and sending people to watch other teams training, x 3. Bizarre.

There's a world of a difference between something done in the field of play in the spur of the moment, and planned cheating on 3 occasions.

Eek. I think there's another ex youth lad as part of the first team coaching setup. Can't think who though.

In reverse. Timing, and context, makes all the difference. You're not suggesting that doing what we did pre Boro in the play off semis is no different to doing it in a mid season game? Re the rest, I don't pretend to know the EFL rules, but I suspect they set out a range of punishments for breach. For this, I'm not sure you can have anything other than a very broad range, with each case then assessed on it's facts and circumstances. However you cut it, we were seeking an advantage to gain a massive prize, and that was always going to get a massive punishment.

We misled them, twice I believe. That's not co-operation. I think the panel went strong on the points to allow the appeal tribunal something to give us.

🤣😂🤣

Forget "new". There's a rule. There's also that we didn't cooperate - twice, but primarily the timing pre play off semi. It's just not comparable imo.

Any tariff would have a range, say slap on wrists to expulsion, but nobody could seriously expect a tariff to set out specific penalties depending on the fixture, that's just daft. You can't, for example, say it's a 2 point deduction if it's for a 6 pointer in the last 4 games of the season where it really matters, but only a slap on the wrists if done early in the season, a point if midway. but expulsion if pre play off semi or final. That's just overly prescribed. The facts, circumstances and timing have to determine the punishment. We've now set the punishment precedent, and anyone else doing it will argue against that yardstick.

Ever decreasing circles. It's obvious what we were trying to achieve, and that the timing of the last offence magnified the seriousness, hence the punishment. The Bielsa comparison has been done to death. You see it as relevant, I don't. No amount of discussion will change our views.

Of course, but trying to get an advantage to get us there was precisely what we were trying to do.

New is irrelevant,but yep, there was a rule. There's also the trivial matter of us trying to cheat in the play off first leg to give us a chance to sew up the tie. I'm not sure Bielsa did that.

The 70 mph example wasn't mine. I disagree that the EFL could be expected to set out sanctions for every breach...who would reasonably foresee that a club would be so stupid as to do this prior to a play off game and set a sanction just in case someone is so daft? If it was 3 games mid season the outcome would be very different. Sometimes offences need to be taken on their own facts and circumstances.