egg

Having the initial thoughts and feelings is not an illness, much like with homosexuality. Thereafter, the confusion, frustration, feelings of social exclusion, etc are what leads to mental health issues and sometimes extreme behaviour. The lines are fine, granted, but there are clear distinctions. I have a long-standing friend who tried to top himself when he realised he was gay when he was 16. He wasn't ill, he was gay, but he couldn't comprehend why he fancied men and felt wrong cos that was societies view back then. He tried to drown himself and was sectioned under the mental health act. He became ill as a consequence of his non illness. That distinction applies to this issue imo.

If they were, it doesn't alter that mental health issues relating to gender dysphoria does not make it a mental health issue of itself. It's quite bewildering that people can't/won't see the distinction.

I'm sorry to hear that badger, very sad. We've got a family friend who has spent time in a facility up north for treatment when she was some stupidly low weight, 4ish stone I think. She pulled through fortunately and has recovered. On the subject, anorexia is a mental health condition. That it is, doesn't make gender dysphoria one.

Science doesn't always have the truth, but suggesting that people must be mentally ill just because, doesn't feel like a challenge of the science. It feels like an opinion with nothing to support it.

And you said my unemployment analogy was crap!

Yep. We all have moral compasses and should have an opinion on what's happening in the middle east. I'd never be so arrogant as to challenge the conclusions of medical science though.

That doesn't make much sense Del. However you cut it, it doesn't become a mental illness because you want it to be. Second point, I have no idea. How do gay people know they're gay before they're sexually active? They're both situations that I can't relate to, but both are people feeling different to that which is traditionally expected of their birth gender, but neither person is mentally ill.

Nonsense. We're all qualified to have a valid opinion on whether Israeli government action is over the top. That's a world away from believing that doctors are wrong, and that gender dysphoria must be a mental illness cos you think it is.

The example was deliberately absurd to highlight how absurd your point was. Gender dysphoria is something that happens to people. They don't choose it. They also don't choose any mental health issues that may flow from it. It's not complicated.

We're all qualified to have an opinion on what's happening over there. None of us are qualified to know better than the WHO or NHS medics.

Having mental health issues as a consequence of gender dysphoria does not make gender dysphoria a mental health issue in itself. Lots of things can lead to mental health issues. Example, unemployment can lead to mental health issues, but that doesn't make unemployment a mental health issue. Gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition.

Suit

That's a completely different point. Odd/entitled behaviour from some individuals doesn't mean people with gender dysphoria are mentally ill. Don't get me wrong, I struggle with understanding how people can't identify with their gender, but when actual medics and medical organisations say it's not a mental illness, I'm not sure why blokes on a football forum think that their opinion is the one that matters.

The mind boggles. I'll stick with the WHO, NHS etc on this, bit the suggestion that people must be mentally ill if they feel a disconnect with their gender feels about as right as saying that gay people are mentally ill.

I cba to read the above, but is it really being suggested that they think they know better than the who and the NHS and suggesting that gendee dysphoria/trans is a mental illness?

She is a cock. Actually, can a woman be a cock? How about a gender neutral person?

You can't know. There was that situation at a local Starbucks where it all kicked off because a customer identified the server as the gender they visualised rather than what the person wanted to be identified as. Madness that the punter was expected to know.

My only issue is how it's possible to describe an individual in the plural. It feels very odd that an individual can identify in that way.

Loose

Fine line is that. My brother in law came out as bi years ago, and has gone gender neutral. My missus regards him as her "brother" because he is and always has been. My kids call him "uncle" because he is and always has been. Can he decide that he's no longer a "brother" or an "uncle" and expect others to toe the line? It's not a rhetorical question by the way, he doesn't seem to know what he's to be called by his family, so how the feck are we supposed to know?!

Reconnaissance

Boy

Nowt wrong with them DM's. She's a good lass.

Agree with both. My point was to set SoG's comments re labour to one side, and address what he said about the Tories. He was correct in what he said about the Tories, and although I have reservations about a Labour government under Starmer, we need a change sharpish.

Putting aside what he says about Labour, don't you agree with what he said about the Tories?