egg

That's the 2 that you choose to believe. I think the hostages were a consideration, rather than an objective. They said they wanted to eliminate Hamas. That was never going to happen. They knew that. They wanted to weaken them and their supporters, on that we agree. They absolutely wanted to draw in Iran and possibly others. Iran took the bait. Tactically they got that right. Smashing up Gaza was also an objective, particularly it's infrastructure. Whilst I don't claim it to be a government policy, if you watch footage of IDF soldiers, killing as many Palestinians as possible was their objective.

Yep. That's the point.

Because the two conflicts are so different that mentioning them in the same context shows obtusity.

There's a reason NATO have limited their involvement. You know that. Any suggestion that "any president" could use a tactical nuke in that conflict is ridiculous. The US wouldn't, ditto Russia.

And possibly trigger WW3. No danger of that by choking Israel. Daft, daft point from you.

As as I know they're resisting and not smashing up another land, starving it's people, and destroying all it's infrastructure. If I've misunderstood and the Gaza people are in the same boat as the Russians, please enlighten me.

You're losing it mate. Nobody is using a nuke. Any US president can turn off the tap to Israel. The two things are about as different as you could get.

Biden didn't, no. Trump played a part in it, yes. That doesn't alter the reality that any US president could and should have stopped this earlier. Not sure why you think this is an anti Trump thing from me. Biden's stance was disgraceful too.

Any US president could have stopped the assault on Gaza, and at any time. I'm not going to blow smoke up his arse for supplying Israel with as much weaponry as they have, and to allow them to act with impunity for so long. The stance the US has taken in the UN during this has been a disgrace. That stance flows from Trump. Better late than never, yes, but the adulation going his way is nauseating.

Sensible judgement, and pleasing they didn't throw the book at him.

Fucking hell 🤣

Median

As has said a million times, your posting style leaves your posts open to interpretation. Regardless, your focus here has been about Trump and 20 Israeli's. Not a word about the people actually negotiating, or the Palestinian people. There's no objectivity whatsoever.

I disagree with you that the focus here should be on the 20 Israeli's, and your focus on Trump for credit. Thinking that you're wrong, as per, isn't me making stuff up. Daft comment. As per.

Please feel free to quote where you've said that anyone else deserves credit. Your focus is on him.

It's not all about the 20 Israeli's mate. The issue is a wee bit bigger than that. A proper solution is essential otherwise we'll be back here soon. Ceasefire needed, release of the captives on both sides, a sustained peace. That's just the beginning. We're about an hour into that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and suggesting that we don't need more than that is daft.

Love it!! Hopefully he sort Cats as well.

He's sorting Chicago, that'll do!

I think there's been as much strong arming of Israel as of Hamas here, and there needed to be. Left to their own devices, they'd have carried on filling their boots. Donny deserves some credit, of course, but not the excessive ego massaging he craves and is getting.

Quite. The people doing the conceding, and those mediating, did the heavy lifting. Sure, Donny's threats / coercion / whatever, behind the scenes paved the way, but let's not elevate what he's directly done here.

Until Israel stops smashing up Gaza, nothing has been achieved. There then needs to be a release of the Israeli and Palestinian captives. Then something, albeit just a start, will have been achieved. Promises, agreements, gestures is this situation are little more than noise. As for Trump, let's see this end, proper peace break out and be sustained, and understand Trump's part in it. Until then, I'll save my clapping for the fool.

Yep. Nothings been achieved yet - the IDF have hit with airstrikes since the ceasefire was ratified, and separately are still attacking the west bank. If Israel won't stop, they can't stay stopped.

Your focus is exclusively on the Israelis. Yes, they (and the others) should never have been taken, but, there's goodness knows how many Palestinians, kids included, held without charge. All of those people should be released simultaneously.

The US are the only game in town on international "diplomacy", but, does getting things done via threats and intimidation merit credit? That said, I'd be delighted if we can achieve a ceasefire and the hostages & captives released, although we ain't there yet.

The credit is largely due to the negotiators and those compromising on the Israeli and Palestinian side. I'll reserve any significant credit for Trump until it's clear what he's actually said or done to bring people into line, although he's clearly put a foot up arses.