up and away

I think he could be even better when complimented with pace, but we don't have that type of player. More than happy with what we have got but have always felt Guly is one of the few players we have who can do the job in the Premier. His work rate and tackling are good and by playing him up front we have removed the negative from his midfield duties and turned them into a positive.

I don't feel you are that far wrong, but I get the feeling we will be looking equally at the future as the now for the player developing. I feel we need something different for those games where things are not all going our way, where we are not at our best and that little bit sluggish. For that I believe we need a pacey central attacker that can take a defence on his own, a good counter attacker. De Ridder has his possibilities but not there yet, good at coming in from the wing but I feel we need someone more direct that's going to push their back four closer to their goal or pay a high price. As highly as I rated Oxo and wanted to keep him, sometimes I felt we had too many attacking options and the midfield suffered as a result, it's all about balance. In my mind the formation we put out against Middlesbrough was perfect, with more than enough attacking options when you have that midfield control. Take all those attackers and midfielders and substitute one of the candidates and I am not sure you have improved the team given that all are on form? Go back to the games where we have struggled and it's that pacey lone striker that looks to give us a new dimension. As you have pointed out, the proposed targets would not add greatly to those times when we need something different. I would take a punt on Maynard because his fee will come down to realistic levels but just cannot get my head round the fee for Rodriquez with what he offers. And Sharp I have never seen any value in given what we have already.

My personal choice as manager would have gone to someone like Billy Davis bearing in mind the issues we had at the time. Wanting and getting are two different things and in practical terms it looked like it would come down to someone like Adkins, O'Drisscol or Howe. Adkins was the obvious stand out because he had got S****horpe promoted twice in recent years. Little surprise and no doubts in my mind. Taking onboard Adkins experience, he was just what we needed. I was not overly impressed with Adkins for the higher leagues to come, but he was exactly what was needed for the position we were in. Adkins got quite a bit wrong during that first season, repeating errors but he also got a hell of a lot right. What has most amazed me with this journey with Adkins is that he eventually gets things right, buttons that down and looks for improvement in other areas. Other things where you feel he has not got things right just go on to another level that you even forget you questioned the original decision This season Adkins have elevated Saints to another level, it is just total football. Fashioned without the need to kick the opponents off the park with a passing game that draws comparisons from the very highest levels. I have seen Pardew screaming the same instructions to the players as Adkins, whether it was to hug the line, push up or discipline. Just one sticks and the other does not. Where did this slick passing game suddenly come from? The addition of Cork seemed instrumental but we can now manage without him such has been the drilling on the training ground. Lallana on Saturday was nowhere near his best, but that little extra quality started taking the water over the top of the dam that the resulting tidal wave came as no surprise. When you have twice the attacking options of most teams in this league, it comes as no surprise when we get a stranglehold of the midfield that someone is in for a battering, no matter how good they have been previously. Chaplow added such focused energy to the midfield that the only surprise is how they got off so lightly. Then look back at the issues we used to have with the defence, looking a distant memory now. The spine and formation of the team we put out against Middlesbrough has always been my idea of our perfect balance. I have no doubt now that we are the real deal and can continue this form through unless injuries decimate us. I am still puzzled where all this passing football arrived from at the start of the season, is this "the Southampton way" Cortese was talking about? Les Reid had a major influence on Adkins arriving at Saints and the manner in which everything is functioning behind Adkins has a lot to do with Reid. But for Adkins to use all these resources so effectively deserves special praise for someone I thought would be perfect for getting us out of League 1 and maybe not much more. The manner in which Adkins has grown as a manager anything is possible, even the England job.

I'm pretty sure NA doesn't think like that. For the Reading game he lamented the fact that he only made one change from the side that won the previous game, and said it was perhaps a mistake by him. The selection of Butterfield instead of Richardson (and his reasoning behind it) shows that Adkins makes decision on selection to suit each individual game. He may not think like that, but he has come out with that regret a few times now so I think it's a lot closer than that. The key will be the energy of our midfield against the energy of theirs. You don't have to go too far back to Reading but I don't think Posh will be capable after a tough away game beforehand. The problem against Reading was our midfield was nullified, Chaplow ran around a lot, but mainly trying to recover balls that had ricocheted off in the challenge. Luckily Reading were relatively toothless, otherwise we would have been in trouble. I doubt Lallana will be up for a full shift so although I can see getting through against Posh, it's what we will have left for Coventry that really concerns.

Butterfield was always my preferred RB last season, because he passed the ball better than Richardson. But Richardson has always been the better defender to me and this year his attacking strengths have come on in leaps and bounds, that I just don't think it's a contest any more. Great to have such two good players that are looking better and better.

Join the queue behind all the others who were calling for something similar well before you. It just worked like a dream. i don't know what Boro expected, but they just could not understand or get to grip with it. In my defence I never expected Lallana to be playing but am not so sure this was pivotal, though I hang onto that crumb. Have always thought this is the way we should set up away from home, but this may be a one off to Mowbrays 352. Not going to put my head in the lions mouth arguing tactics with Adkins, what ever he does in the near future.

I cannot praise Adkins enough, he just gets better and better. I have always liked Adkins and he was my first choice amongst the practical targets. Over time I have seen several holes in his tactics, but he keeps getting there eventually until we see this master class laid out before us today. I always thought his brand of football was superior to Pardew but without the champagne, with that quickly being dispelled from the end of last season and just going on to new levels this. The team and formation used today has always been in the back of my mind as being the one which would be the most solid defensively with plenty of attacking options. Guly able to contribute effectively without losing the ball in dangerous positions. With Lallana back the champagne was flowing again, but I still believe we would have been solid without him, but how dominant? What I struggled to understand was why Adkins chooses this formation of players with Lallana in the team, something I don't recall previously from the start. Then seeing the dominance Saints had in midfield and the space afforded to them, I believe this was a direct result of Middlesbrough's 352 and the whole thing worked like a dream. I get the feeling Middlesbrough were expecting something different, because they just could not figure out how to defend with what was going on around them. Watched this one on tv but it looked very similar to Leeds on the opening day. As some Leeds fans said to me, "you were good, but we were sheite", nigh on same from Middlesbrough. But when Saints get a grip of that midfield they strangle all opportunity and invention from the opposition that they do look sheite. Add to that a back five which have been rebarred over the last few weeks, there was just no chinks left open today with a hard working midfield. Throw in the champagne from the forwards and you have what you saw today, a masterclass from Adkins. To our credit we do this without having to kick lumps out of the opposition but by playing passing football.

The square peg is the problem, both Lambert and Guly will play well in the hole. The problem we have is the absence of a striker with pace to compliment them. Without doubt Guly's best position is in the hole and he easily gets the nod over Lambert for me in that position, but Lambert will just drop back and reverse the whole thing. I know that's Guly's best position, but you cannot argue with the results Adkins has had playing 442 with Guly on the wing. I know we are not playing at our best at the moment, but I can see no reason to change until the second half, should it demand. It's the midfield again that will determine the result, get control and we should be ok with the normal set up. If Middlesbrough effectively push up their back four as we have seen teams do away from home against us, we will need to try something different then. Even if it means bringing on De Ridder, someone I would use as impact in the second half.

It got knocked on the head very early on by the agent. I get the feeling Saints were not prepared to pay the agents fee for Sharpe, after coming to full agreement with the club. I would imagine that Sharpe would have to bear that cost himself, but Doncaster would have been better off paying it the way his value is sliding.

Pretty sure we were interested in Fontaine and he did have a medical at St Mary's. A medical that seems to have done it's job as he has not appeared since, until today. Well done medical staff, though I doubt it was difficult to spot, having such long term injury concerns with his ankle! Gorkks was never an intended target, only something that got thrown into the ring by Warnock because he could not afford Puncheon. It would not surprise me if we did not consider the option, but there is nothing to indicate we made any decision on Gorkks or actively went after him. So going back to the list with the known central defenders we were after, we seem to have made an excellent choice for someone who was out of their depth in making acquisitions. How anyone thinks Jemal would fit in with that attitude is beyond me. Any fan has the right to feel underwhelmed by a player acquisition, but they deservedly look like right thwats when the underwhelmed becomes the now popular choice. Even to the extent that Jose would not come out shining on a 1:1 pole from those same detractors.

Here we go!! Go back to last season and this has been a common feature, with the odd blip per game. It's just that last season it was buried under problems with the rest of the defenders. I thought at the time he was doing too much and trying to cover for others. But he just gets himself out of position now and again and panic sets in to rectify the problem. He still puts in good performances even with that little foible, but because the rest of defence have tightened up it has become more noticeable. I would not drop him and believe he has a lot to add to the team, but you have to be blind not to see what is going on.

I think you nailed it previously with Reading did their homework but we're easy to set up against without pace and options in behind them. Teams can play a high line and press with impunity, knowing everything will be played in front of them. And how many of our players can genuinely beat a man in a one on one situation? What I don't fully agree with is starting with SDR a no-brainer, as we saw previously it never turned out as expected. Don't get me wrong as I do believe SDR is the answer, but I believe he can be more effective coming off the bench when the opposition are tired. The lack of penetration we showed at Reading means we need SDR going for goal alone as I don't believe he will have much joy on the wing waiting for others to join. I thought Reading had shot their bolt with all the hard work in pressing us into errors, but we defended well and still played football. Maybe if we had a few more days rest the penetration may have been there. We need that pacey striker leading the line that won't allow defences to push us back without threat on their goal and I am sure the club will find one. Just imagine that scenario. To me SDR is a very good player but he does not fill that role and I think Adkins has got it spot on.

It was not that bad, Cardiff was worse. Reading played to stifle us and it worked, yet we still played a lot of football, but without pace or penetration. Guly and Chaplow were finding themselves in positions where they could not turn and advance and got picked off. We need a pacey centre froward to solve this problem and Ricky could still be out there now lying that deep without pace. I hear what everyone is saying about De Ridder, but I felt he had more of an impact coming on as he did than maybe if he had been blunted in that first half. We are going to have more of this until Lallana gets back, but it's still two points a game. Fonte is getting as regular as clockwork with his one a game, that was lucky.

Without doubt he should have been dropped away from home, he obviously was not fit. Something he and everybody else agrees with. Of all those goals Lambert scored last season, how many were from open play 15, good, but not Holt? The biggest issue with Ricky has been his ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck and determine it's outcome alone. When Ricky scored that goal against Huddersfield at the end of last year, it was special in many ways, primarily as he did it all himself. That sort of goal was the exception but this season he has come on in leaps and bounds after a slow start and you only have to look back to the Derby game for a repeat. For Lallana, that sort of game changer is not the exception. Against WHU, Chaplow was the main reason we put in such a performance, going neck and neck with the Hoover for MOM, with other players including Ricky playing a significant part. Ricky has raised his game this season and is now the player you have been trying to elevate without merit. I think he will get even better the way he is going and I will not be in the slightet shy in heaping praise upon him, but that does not make me blind to everything that happened when he was not fit. I can't over praise the staff enough for how they have constantly improved all the players, with Ricky being the star pupil. And in Hoover, I believe we have found someone who actually organises our defence.

Lallana takes our passing game to another level. When he's on form and the team are playing well, we are unstoppable in this league. Ricky does not come near that. That said, Ricky has upped his performances a lot of late. The West Ham game showed what could be done playing an alternative way without Lallana, which I thought was particularly professional and impressive. The champagne football requires Lallana, but Ricky has elevated his game such I now believe he is of equal importance. Several times in the past Ricky deserved to be dropped and at the start of this season he was not that special. His performances have now grown and grown that it is a testament to everyone involved, a very special player. Really pleased for the player because he of all the players has always epitomised the "fan" in the team and clearly cares for the club.

Without wishing to divert too far from the main topic of the thread, it's certainly my belief that that was the original plan. Whether that was re-evaluated once ML got into the emotional side of things or not, I've no idea. The obvious spanner in the works is the extended family - we don't know how much of an active interest they're taking in the club (from a high level, obviously, as they'll happily leave NC to run things on a day-to-day basis) or whether they even want to keep the club under the family's ownership. NC says they're supportive, which is all well and good, but that could change at any moment. Having been a fairly secretive and secluded family through all the time they've been making their fortune, it would seem to fly in the face of that for them to want to hang around in the Premier League with the additional exposure that status brings. I have little doubt that Liebherr bought into the Saints dream that anything was possible should he still be alive today. Sharing those thoughts with Cortese I believe they both bought into that dream, each spurring the other on. Liebherr made provisions for Saints beyond his death and Cortese is following through to deliver. But just what is Cortese following through with? I would venture that Cortese has been left independently wealthy from Liebherrs will and the the club is owned / governed by the extended Liebherr family (including Cortese). I would further venture that a very sizeable lump of Liebherrs assets have been ring fenced to make the dream come true, otherwise why bother and just put the club up for sale immediately. Although Cortese is in charge, the input and control from other family members can have a significant impact but I don't believe sufficient to derail anything. If Cortese'e spur is financial, we could easily be deep in the sheite, because I can easily see a financial agreement being hammered out to end things here and now which would put many £10M's straight into his pocket. I hope and believe that he is true to that dream he and Markus held and will take us as far as possible. There will be an end eventually, but Cortese can see that through to many years in the future.

After nodding in agreement to 95% of what you have posted, I just can't see the logic here, bearing in mind all the current evidence of Premier clubs. Liebherr calling the deal "Schnappchen" has one very vital reference point, that of a multi billionaire. Take away that qualification and "Schnappchen" is no longer in the same context. The main problem at the present is for any market to exist, you have to have willing buyers. Just look at the acquisitions that have been made for clubs in the Premier outside of the top 5 and I really doubt any now view this as a sound investment, with the vast majority now just treading water to avoid losing more capital. Lets assume Saints make the Premier after 5 years, that's going to have costed (in comparison to investing else where) in excess of £30M+(even allowing for the windfall that was Oxo). You then have to lay out a further £30+M just to try and ensure you stay in the lower reaches of the Premier. All the while running up operating cost levels that will leave very little to profit upon. So for an outlay of about £70M you have the honour of owning a Premier club with very little in terms of profit. Then if you want to chase the CL dream of an extra £15M per season, you would be looking at about £120M further to give yourself a 1/3 chance, as demonstrated by the likes of Spurs and Liverpool. The Premier league has attracted a lot of big buyers, but that just does not look the case anymore. In all honesty the likes of AV, Birmingham, Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, WHU cannot be seen as an investment. Given the choice, you can easily see most of these avoiding the Premier league with the benefit of hindsight, leaving only those who gain joy from football as being happy. Someone like Mike Ashley who has splashed out £500M+ would glady reverse his decision, it's just a black hole that sucks all pleasure along with money and dreams for him. Luckily the new Liverpool owner must be thanking Arsene for dropping the ball this season, but I still reckon that only gives them about a 1/3 shot of making the CL next season. If you are a multi billionaire who wants the excitement that football can bring to your life, then it's a bargain. The question is, how many of those are about and more importantly, would want to buy Saints?

What this does is to give a major advantage to the very top clubs. One of the very reasons given is that it gets the very best talent to the best facilities (or richest more likely). Saints will gain on one hand because they have a far bigger pool to draw upon, but that pool will consistently have the cream skimmed off by the richest clubs. What that means is an absence of the Walcotts and the Oxo's, leaving us with far less chance of getting hold of the very best, confined to mediocrity and late developers. However much a blow the loss of Oxo was, the Academy still shone in the glow of the fee forced from Arsenal. Take that away and wait for dribs and drabs way into the future and the whole Academy set up outside of the Premier will suffer. Even with inside the Premier there is going to be some serious adjustment for any but the very top clubs.

If you read my post in context you will see that I said that we lack a cutting edge without Lallana and/or De Ridder. That is a fact. When Lallana and the team is on form, we can score goals at will aginst anyone in this league. So when we say we are lacking a cutting edge it is by comparison to those very high standards. As last night showed, there is more than one way to skin a cat and the ability to still score the odd goal or two. We should have had two goals against a decent defensive set up. We have needed to score more than the odd goal because defensively we have been leaking, last night was a different kettle of fish with the ability to make that odd goal give us 3 points.

That was a professional performance, something I felt we needed to do but unsure we could be so effective. WHU were a disappointment and our passing made it look as only one football team was out there. I can only assume we got to them or somehing else has affected them? Adkins and the players got the tactics spot on for what should have been a tough game without Lallana. As good as are passing was, we were short of pace to make things happen at will. If WHU had thrown the sink at us from the start, I feel that lack of pace would have been far more evident, but as it was they made it easy for us. Lallana takes our whole game to another level by skill alone, but last night showed we now have other options. I have always felt previously that we have had the better players but not the better team. Last night in my eyes showed the sum of the team exceeds the individuals, that was the one missing ingredient I felt for an automatic spot. If we don't manage to keep Hooiveld in the window, I'll put money on those complaining the most will de those under whelmed by his arrival.

There are a lot of things in this thread which have some validity, but I tend to agree now that it looks like a culmination of factors that did for Pardew. Going back to last season, Markus did comment negatively about Pardew and I expect Pardew would have heard about this. Cortese did consider his options as to who was available before the end of the season but from his actions decided to stick with Pardew. Bearing in mind that Cortese left Pardew in no doubt about what he thought about prioritising the cups, I doubt Pardew felt very comfortable. I have little doubt Crotese decided Pardew would be here for the following season, but it would not have surprised me if Pardew never bought into that and was looking elsewhere. Leading up to Pardews sacking there were several incidents. When medical and training staff goes to Cortese and tell him preseason is causing more problems than it is solving, something is way adrift. Cortese accepted Pardew was the manager and he got his way, with the responsibility for choosing that path. There seemed to be two distinct camps within side of the club, with some being warned it was detrimental to their health if they poked their nose in where it was not wanted. The first two home games of the season showed that something was way adrift of where we should be, bearing in mind the unrest during preseason. What were strange were the comments from Pardew after the midweek League cup game “It was not a priority game, but we treated it as such”? Just why the hell he would say that after he had half his arse chewed off previously by Cortese for this exact issue? Some players were rested but nothing like what you see from Adkins. Then Lallana breaks down at Bristol Rovers the following weekend, not to be seen again for 6 weeks. This was nothing to do with preseason, but there was a smarter option on the exploratory which would have been more effective. When you see how things are working behind Adkins now, it’s as if Pardew was only using a fraction of what was available at his disposal. We had some great results under Pardew but always the underlying weakness that we could not keep the fitness up required for this style of play, irrespective of who the opposition was. So I can understand the logic of what he was trying to do in preseason, but he did more damage than good. There was a definite mismatch between Pardew and Reid, why I don’t know but believe it goes back a ways. When you look at all these small details and how Adkins maximizes what he gets from the club resources, there is little doubt in Cortese having taken the right action. There are several issues here, but the main one I hear Cortese reference is the preseason.

agree....lallana is the key though for a game like tuesday IMO I doubt we will see Lallana on the pitch against WHU. With Connolly still not looking the sharpest I would definitely change things around, because if we fail to get control or even parity of the midfield, I think they will do us. Connolly was not tearing up trees on Saturday and it would make a lot of sense starting with something like 4411 Lambert Guly Fox Hammond Cork Chaplow Harding Hooiveld Fonte Richardson(?) Davis With options to change it from the bench, we should at least still be in the game at half time and the attacking replacements would have the easier task against tired legs. Should we nick something I would be more than happy to grind this one out. If they get control of the midfield the damage may already be done at half time and there's no point in going defensive then. I am not sure where Adkins thinking is after the Derby summary.The referee said it would have been a penalty if they had not scored, so really don't understand the logic in us winning it but for the offside. I still feel we can win the game if we play smart, but I can easily see WHU compressing the middle, leaving us no space to play our passing game and being picked off as we were at Leicester. If we could not get the better of Derby with that line up, I really doubt we will get the better of WHU with the same team. What ever, it's going to be a great evening of football with two good sides.

I think that is a fair reflection. Derby have done very well results wise this season, but you do wonder how they have managed it. They have several out injured so that could be a factor, but I feel we should have won this if we are as good as we hope we are. The Cardiff game was the real blow, really poor performance against a team hit with injuries and stamina. Just to gift them the win was difficult to take looking at the fight we have put up in other games. That said we are playing really well and in the grand scheme, these things happen to the best of teams during a season. Two things that have had an impact recently are Lallana and Fonte. When Lallana is effective, a good passing game gets elevated to another level, making us virtually unstoppable. As good as Fonte is, it is noticeable when he makes errors. He always had made mistakes going back a while, but I mainly put that down to him trying to cover for weaker links. The UI made the comment that Fonte does not really gel with Hooiveld. Looking back I am wondering if this is a new problem or one that has existed for a while. Don't get me wrong, Fonte has put in a lot of excellent performances but there has always been this isolated error of judgement in reading situations, mostly not costly. Looking back Hammond and Connolly have lost a bit of edge, but Ricky has improved to take up the slack. These things happen to all teams and we are in such a great position even with the team not scoring 4 in a game. I feel that how we conduct ourselves in the January window could well decide where we finish this season. As good as we have been I feel that we will eventually need to freshen things up some time in the future.

Lallana is the one Premier quality player we have. Cork could do a job there and Guly could be useful now and again, but the rest are just not good enough. I have not seen anything from Maynard to indicate he is Premier class but he could well lead our line to success. It's just a good job Ricky is doing the business.

It will be more like Saints are still interested and would like to hear from them should the position change in January. I cannot see that Cortese would pin anything more concrete for Rodriquez, considering the length of time and money involved.