up and away

Exactly, the moment is gone once you can no longer fit the girl pipers into the line up!

When your over riding problem is being able to put back to back wins together when playing more than one game a week, then you have to be pretty thick to put out a strong team for a midweek cup game of no real importance. I would not have minded if Adkins rested more players, but he has a full week to get the fitness levels back up and he rested what should be our two most important players, whilst taking it easy on our talented teenager. If you can understand why Pardew made the stupid statement of "It wasn't a priority game, but we treated it as such", maybe you would like to explain this statement when you consider it came within inches of getting him the sack previously. You have to be totally dumb or want out, to state something like that, after all that happened previously. It is very clear from the Solent interview why Cortese and Pardew fell out. The league must be the top, top priority and he did not spend all that money in the January window to look good in a cup run. Which is drastically at odds with Pardew's statement that he prioritised the cup/s. To try and imply that the radio, paper and programme interviews of Cortese being untrue, of his relationship and how the deal with Markus came about is just phissing into a force 9. Cortese was not only given control, but unequivocal and total control with no interference from Liebherr. This is the first campaign of propaganda designed to make NC look a wonderful man I have known by silence. Not courting any favours from the press and just giving a couple of radio interviews a year. Did you actually read that drivel? Leftback will continue to be correct with team selections and players, loaded with a dollop of side bias and curry down his front. He may well be correct about Reed, it does not concern me. Because I do know that if Reed does not perform, Cortese will get rid of him. The only way Reed gets to stay is if he does his job well enough. I'm surprised it was not "Fonte's off on holiday because Les Reed is such a nadger and Fonte has to take a rest to get over it". But trying to extend that to Cortese's actions and dealings are guesswork at best. We all know Cortese is by no means perfect, but as a Saints fan we have never had it so good, even allowing for his peccadillo's. Cortese has this dream for Saints that everyone of us wish him well with and so far has delivered. Just because Cortese has the common sense to keep his mouth shut and keep politics out of Saints, some of the old guard feel the need to fill that vacuum.

There is dumb, dumber and this genetic cross link of Crouch and Pardew that you portray. After Markus's death there was more than one remembrance to the great man, one private and one public for the Saints side. Seeing as the family had no input on the Saints side and it was virtually 100% the relationship between Markus and Cortese, it's obvious to an amoeba that eulogy would draw upon events in that relationship. One of the conditions that Liebherr made when buying the club, was that Cortese had to run it. So he is there by the 100% backing that Markus gave him, enough to say Liebherr would never have got involved with Saints without Cortese. By your own words concede how keen the family are on the club, well it will be a whole lot worse without Cortese. After seeing the relative merits between Adkins and Pardew, we can all give Les Reed a big pat on the back for levering his sorry arse down the road. Looking at today's cup tie, it's pretty clear where are priorities are, the league. Contrast that with the Bolton tie and the team we put out that day, with those immortal words from Pardew "It wasn't a priority game, but we treated it as such". I get the feeling Weston was right on this one, in that Pardew was deliberately looking for the push, because that statement makes no sense otherwise. If Cortese is not given the funds to take us onwards, he won't be here and I would expect the family to sell the club. Even you should be able to see the relative merits of these actions, that's if you can filter out the gizits from the equation.

I would put money on Adkins being told at some time before being given the job, the league is the TOP, TOP, PRIORITY. Now unlike Pardew, I don't think Adkins will have any problems with taking that on board. Even to the extent of giving the fringe players a run out to find out exactly where we are and what we can expect from them. I don't expect Adkins to come out with Pardews comments after the Bolton game, "it was not a priority game, but we treated it as such". As much as I would like to see Bart start in the first team, Kelvin is more than good enough for this league. We do have some remaining problems. but Kelvin won't even come on the horizon if we clear the others up.

There's just not the evidence to back that up at present, although I would expect a top 2 position. Away to Huddersfield and Notts County still showed we have issues. When we go away to the top teams and show them football, then we can look far more optimistically. Whatever the good and bad of Morgan, the midfield has the habit of disappearing at times with him in it, without really adding to the goals column. Ricky is trudging around the pitch and playing a slightly different style, either by plan or necessity. Either way it does not look like we can rely on his goals from open play or free kicks that we saw last season. The main problem I could glean from the Huddersfield and Notts County games, was that our midfield got over run. Now unless Adkins goes to a 5 man midfield or some formulae that solves that problem, I can't see why the problems will stop. The difference I see with Adkins over Pardew is that I believe we will get the results from the teams we are expected to beat. Not completely sure about the other top teams because we have just not demonstrated that aspect as yet. What we have got is the strongest squad in this league by far and unless others are very lucky with form and injuries, that will equate to points. We can all moan about certain players, but virtually most other teams would love to have the likes of Puncheon, Harding etc in their side. I believe we made the right choice in Adkins, but we are not there yet.

That could all be very true but what I do not know is how the estate was divided and how many there are? Under Markus this is undeniably so, but what is the position when that is divided up into smaller parts without the passion to match. The families love for Markus could well carry this on far further, but without the passion for Saints it is difficult to see the longevity?

That all seems about right, but I thought we looked average, masked by Oxo's speed and goals. Really impressed with Oxo, first was a cross but second was deliberate. What really impressed was the quality of the end product after getting space. Often you see these speed gifted fail when it comes to the delivery, this was the real deal. To get to the same level of performances we did under Pardew against some of the top teams, we are going to require Ricky to be back on full form. That still is not there at the moment and I can't see it happening anytime soon, even though he is still worth his place. The size and quality of our squad should see us surge ahead when the competition wears down the squads. I get the feeling you can't make any valid observations about the Daggers game, because they never pressurised the midfield as Notts and Huddersfield did, but I still don't believe we looked completely at ease. I want to see our midfield dominate one of the top teams to give us one of the performances we saw against Huddersfield, Norwich or Leeds last season. Combine that with the consistency that Pardew lacked, then we really are cooking. Certainly not beyond Adkins and it would not surprise me to happen at any time, but not quite there as yet.

Definitely has an axe to grind, can hardly get his words out when Les Reed is involved for the volume of feathers it all has to come through. His allegiance to Crouch puts him in the dumb fooks box, but there is value in some of his comments. As someone else mentioned, just looking at how the teams line up in training is good enough to figure out the squad, not a lot of inside info there. The last point he made about a disagreement between Cortese and the Liebherr family was worth further discussion, even if it was not true. I don't believe a lot of people realise the ambitions that Cortese has for Saints, the Champions League comments were no joke. What I could not reconcile would be the beneficiaries of Liebherrs estate, agreeing to levels of spending that would entail, no matter what was promised. This is expected to be Cortese's last job and he wants to leave his mark. All very good for a Saints supporter, not completely sure the family will feel exactly the same as time passes. Saints can never be seen as a viable stand alone investment, only with the passion can this make sense. Markus bought into that passion, but I wonder for how long the rest of the family will? Does anyone know how regularly members of the family attend St Mary's?

Kelvin was very naive in the manner he dealt with the Notts forward, he could have easily negated that problem without having to rely on the referee. He should have got a free kick, but by the time the ball brought them into focus, the forwards arm was no longer completely blocking Kelvin. Kelvin thought the referee should have seen that, but in all fairness I can understand why it was not picked up. That was a silly mistake by Kelvin. As for who should or should not play has seen all of us with egg on our faces at times. What I do believe is that Adkins appears by far the best judge we have had at Saints in a very long time ( Pearson possible exception ), so happy to leave everything to him. What does appear an issue (by all reports) with the Huddersfield and Nott's game, is that our midfield has struggled. The Nott's 5 man midfield appeared to overwhelm our midfield to the extent we could not get that part going. Someone has mentioned 4-5-1 and that has it's possibilities, because it is one formation I have seen Morgan very effective within. I would love to see Fonte tried as the defensive midfielder, he has so much talent with bringing the ball out and reading the game that I feel we may get far more from him. I feel Fonte's minor weakness at present is that he tries to cover others and in so doing so leaves himself short positionally sometimes. As defensive midfielder he could do all of that and possibly improve the team considerably, even a 3-5-2 seems very workable with all the talent we have. All just a personal thought because we have some minor issues at present, but it's going to be interesting to see how Adkins sorts things out.

You could well be right, if promises were made in front of independent witnesses, does not have to be written. This won't affect Cortese personally I doubt, only the club and it all relies on the family sharing the same collective dream that Markus did individually. When you have several beneficiaries of Markus's estate, this would not surprise me. We were discussing the last match, how many of the family regularly came to the home games? Nothing can be done so why worry, we are so much better off than where we were. For Saints sake, I hope they don't go giving it over to the fans or we will be getting open planning at one end of the ground.

I don't know what happened to Pardew at the start of the season, I'm starting to believe Weston in that he just wanted out. I am a very big fan of Adkins, but we are still getting things wrong but at least this one knows how to put in the fix. Until we get Ricky on form, I would not guarantee an automatic spot, though favour our chances. If Ricky cannot get back to form I feel we must get in what's required to do the job, I just cannot understand what is going on there! Again I am not totally convinced pairing Morgan in midfield, but Adkins looks to have that worked out. I don't want to be too critical of Ricky because he is still a useful player even at his current form, but just look at the goals he scored last season and the impact that had for us. I can't remember if he has scored a free kick for us yet.

We all think the lack of explanation would be better, but it was not that difficult to work out as I said at the time. So you have no problem with the decision, just not understanding how it came about. This is minor in anyone's language, unless your in the business of making mountains out of molehills. I'm still trying to figure out why you put yourself forward as a mod, how's that going to work with everyone on ignore?

That would be Rod Ruddick. Pretty sure it was Malcolm Elias who signed Bale. He had been at the Bath Academy since a very early age, on the recommendation of his PE teacher. By no means guaranteed we would sign him full time, Elias took that decision. I have never seen a player come on in such a short space of time. You could see it all when he came into the first team, but little clue compared with all the others that he would actually make it.

I would agree with that conclusion and why Cortese is an overwhelming force for good for Saints. I have no problem with nigh on all the things he has done, but he could have been a bit more friendly in explaining in detail why the decisions were made. He deliberately keeps a very low profile and we hardly hear from him, his main weakness which creates all the rumours. That's just him and if that his is outstanding weakness, I will gladly accept that after all the others we have had displayed by previous incumbents. The one thing I am unhappy with is the treatment of Nick Illingsworth, but I still have not bothered to find out what exactly happened there and any conclusion. Whatever has happened, Nick has had the good sense not to fuel the fire, which does him proud. What really impressed me about Cortese was the fact he kept Pardew on. He had a big disagreement with Pardew, addressed the situation and never let personal feelings come into the decision for what he thought was best for Saints. If he thought for one minute that he would be replacing Pardew that early in the season, he would have been gone before the end of last season. I notice Leftback has not tried to pin this one on Cortese with his continual campaign against Les Reed, others arrive to fill that vacuum. I can understand some of the points Leftback has against Reed, but am positive if he is not performing for the club he will eventually be found out and Cortese will act in Saints best interest.

It was in agreement rather than argument with your points. The only added point as Bucks Saint pointed out, we got ourselves into this mess (or others on our behalf).

The situation with Barclays had some original flexibility (though ever doubtful given the emergence of the worst financial global climate in history), until they refused to honour any of our cheques. The club had set out a plan of action with the bank at the beginning of the season, something that was proving difficult. Barclay’s were also in a very difficult position, they wanted out but had a part to play in the position we were in. When they found themselves having to lay off large sections of staff, the limit had been reached and many bad debts had the plug pulled. In better times we may well have gotten a stay of execution, but to try and imply we could continue to trade when Barclays refused to honour those cheques, is totally ridiculous. Administration was inevitable, whether forced or voluntary! Bucks Saint is correct, we got ourselves into this position, compounded by market forces, we only have ourselves to blame. The reason we were in this mess is because under the already voluntary administration with Barclay’s when Crouch was there, they allowed him to keep spending right up until we hit the buffers, something that should not have happened. We made no savings, but increased our costs and wages even to the stupidity of buying Davies and further loans. The out going execs had already stated the true financial picture, only for Crouch to paint a far rosy picture. Whatever happened after that point is immaterial when you cannot offload your high earners, even to the extent of giving them away. Selling on the youth players for pennies would only delay judgement day, not be a solution.

I agree with you , look at the Skates game, Ipswich and he ripped Norwich the runaway leaders to shreds. This is why its so bad at the moment as it has gone off the scale how extremely bad his form is at the moment. Last season he hardly lost a header...this season he hardly jumps.....why?? I would not go to those extremes, but you have a very valid point. What I cannot understand is there appears nothing major wrong, yet we are seeing no improvement after all this time? The last time I saw something like this was with Fuller, where it took a couple of seasons after joining us to come through. Even Dennis Wise could jump higher than Fuller at that point. Ricky just looks to be trudging through mud in his wellies. Still useful for the team, just not near his previous high standards. If Bignall was good enough, I would be tempted to rest Ricky so we can do all that's possible to get him back to his previous form.

I really can't be arsed to go into this all again, but it was not Barclays that put us in Admin. We put ourselves in admin,, in order to protect the Directors for becoming personally liable. Lowe got his sums wrong and issued a cheque to Keith Granger that bounced. He played chicken with Barclays and lost. You can play with the semantics all you want, but just how do you stop the club going into administration once Barclay's pulled the plug, there was no way out. The directors could have kept on trading but all that would have done would be a small delay before being forced into administration and personal exposure. Just how are you going to bypass administration once Barclay's have pulled the plug?

he just needed to fire Burley and history might have been changed. I think he wanted to but someone stopped him. Bet he regrets that. He sanctioned spending of money we had not got before the season even started, promising money he could not get or prepared to shell out himself, totally stupid. We had just gone through the biggest cuts in our history when he came in and put our whole safety in jeopardy again by over spending. Leaving behind a vacuum that created a totally fractious and hostile environment, one that could only lead to disaster with the characters involved.

I have got this wrong before between Kevin and Bart that I just leave it to the manager and be happy with that decision. One thing that has been pointed out to me is that Kelvins spectacular saves have more of a hint of Hollywood about them. Looking at the early save against Huddersfield, similar to others we have seen, some would question whether Bart's feet would actually need to leave the ground to make that save, especially if he used his other arm?

I could have been saying the same thing not long back, but after so long you cannot over look the facts forever. There is little doubt in my mind now under Adkins that Hammond is the defensive midfielder, that leaves one position for an attacking, more creative midfielder. Just look at Morgans goals / assists and you are wandering into Claus / Benali territory here. Adkins has definitely had an impact on Morgan, but it needs to develop for him to retain his place. What Morgan needs to understand is those, control, small alteral balls take drive and momentum out of the team. I thought he was getting past this under Adkins but this was a backward step. When we played 451 under Pardew, I thought Morgan was at his best in a 5 man midfield, a far more effective player. I don't believe anyone is arguing that Morgan looks a class act with his skills, it's more a question of the effectiveness of the player. We all know the value of these types of player and the French have been particularly gifted in this area, but as world class as Didier Deschamps was, I can't see any manager putting him in the team to play infront of Claude Makelele.

Very good analysis. I came to a similar decision with Schneiderlin a while back, he flatters to deceive, but I did think he was making progress under Adkins. Chaplow looked the worst of the two and some of his passing was dreadful, making Morgan look good. But these two just did not gel and there was no balance or effective drive from them as a unit, that was our biggest problem. Of the two I would agree that Chaplow compliments Hammond better, even allowing for his mistakes and are the better pairing, mainly because of his drive. What I cannot understand is what is wrong with Ricky? injury, because I can't believe it's still fitness but have heard no details on any injury and he looks like a plodder far too much of the game. Whatever, his form last year is why we did so well and we desperately need him back on form or are going to have to look at getting someone else in. Ricky still does a useful job, just not near the level he was doing it at last season. Something one other poster mentioned is regarding Fonte. Without doubt our best player consistently, but he does compromise his position by trying to do others work as well. In the long run he may well be correct and it was barely noticeable, but against Bournemouth it should have cost us a goal and against Rochdale it did. I would love to see Fonte as the defensive midfielder where he can add this cover without leaving any gaps and I can't see anyone better for someone to take the ball forward from midfield.

A really good post which identifies the major points. When I first saw this all out attack style against Pompey in the cup, I said then this will win us games in this league starting with away to Norwich the following Saturday. Bearing in mind we were not on a good run at the time that raised several laughs. But you could also see it was nigh on impossible to be successful on a long term basis, when you were playing more than one game a week, expending that amount of energy and expecting all the players on form. That was Pardew in a nutshell. I won't denegrate any of the exceptional football I saw under Pardew, took my breath away at times. But you always knew it was going against the percentages of what we were trying to achieve, promotion. Putting in one excellent performance when you knew you would be giving points away come midweek was just a dumb philosophy. Like you, I am bemused that some cannot see the vast difference between the two approaches and why I would take Adkins every time.

Unfortunately not [take for example an employee at my current company who refused to undertake any work at all. Verbal warning. Still no work. Writen warning, still no work out of her. When sacked she pleaded racial discrimination. The legal costs were estimated at around 4x her annual wage. The out of court settlement was agreed at c. 1x her annual wage. Quite simply, it's hard to dismiss any employee, and settlements are now now very frequent, even when the employee is completely in the wrong] I really am bemused why so many people cannot understand this was just the sacking of a person under contract. Just because you sack the person does not mean that you do not have to continue to pay what was agreed in the contract. That also means that the person receiving the money is not free to take up employment elsewhere and continue to get paid. So what happens if the person wants to get back to another job, they agree a settlement figure, less in total what would be paid out eventually and in one reduced lump sum. That then allows the person to take on other positions with a reduced payout, the employer having to pay out less, a compromise that suits both parties. Pardew could even have been caught in a compromising position with Mrs Cortese and I doubt there would be justification to stop payment under the contract. Nothing to stop him being sacked for any reason, at any time, but you still have to pay him.

Let's see what you actually posted, where your overwhelming point is that you would have to be an idiot to drop Ricky. My main point being that it is far from idiotic and a practical assessment of the position we are in, even though I do not agree with it. Now other posters have pointed out that the mobility of Barnard to get onto Guly's flicks and through balls is more of a possibility because of his better mobility over Ricky, which is unquestionable. I believe they have a very strong point, added by the increased support they would add to the team in defence, one that I would agree totally with if they were both fully match fit. As it is I would favour keeping things as they were against Tranmere. Although I am not in favour of dropping Ricky, the logic is far from idiotic to do so. What is idiotic is to say the option has no merit.