up and away

Your right, there is no need to press the panic button. But equally, there is something really adrift when we start so poorly against weak teams, both at home. Just imagine if ManC had drew with Sunderland, then lost to West Ham, that's exactly the same sort of perspective our start has been. With the added bonus that the opposition will sell us their best player in this league. In summary, a very bad start that needs to be immediately improved upon! No need to panic, but no need to gloss over what is actually happening.

This concerns me because it does nothing about securing the midfield when things start going astray. Antonio put in some good performances for us and was an asset at times, equally he came on and made no difference what so ever. I really doubt you will get someone with pace who can put in an end product at this level, I just cannot see that bearing fruit. Take Nathan Dyer for example, does anyone think he would be the answer should things need changing around? And I would expect it to be difficult to get any better. If the arse goes from the midfield, just how will the likes of Antonio or Papa solve that problem. As we saw previously, they can't If Pardew does nothing about securing up the midfield and believes the answer is this magic on the wing hiding away in a Premier club, yet to be seen, I don't see it happening! Everything seems to be resting upon Guly to be the big fix, I hope this works out.

When we got relegated from the Premier, Lee signed for Ipswich? mid season and I thought he was perfection for the CCC or league 1. I don't know how quick he is now, but put the right balls into him and I fail to see it not being rewarded. Excellent signing if fit. Our wages for our last year in the CCC, for the footballing side was about £6.25M. In our first year in League 1, I would guess we added about £2-2.5M to that, scouts, players, Pardews team etc. This year that should come down a bit, depending upon how many players we sign within the windows. We did have funding to support a change of manager this season, but I would not be 100% if that is still available (not that I was 100% in the first place).

Pardew has decided to wait for better players, rather than accept less immediately. I don't know if that is right or wrong and can easily accept that he may be correct and the loss of a few points now can be rewarded by greater dividends later down the line, if we do get those better players. That's a valid decision and it would be unfair not to give him time for that to unravel. What I do not accept is the hoofing or lack of ideas is not down to him. How long or how many players does he need to get that to work? Even Poortvliet sorted that out from the beginning of a shortened pre-season with youth team players. After all this time, the solidity of the midfield has never been permanently addressed, always resurfacing to bite us in the arse. We need someone like Fonte holding the base of that midfield together. I have already made my point about prioritising the league and accept we were not truly bad in the league, albeit against two poor teams. That said, we always seem to have the measure of any team that try to play football against us. Very similar to last season and the quality of the players we get in, will decide whether this one is going to be any different. Though I don't feel Pardew is doing himself any favours with some of his decisions and we should have done better with what we have, it will all come down to those players we get in.

He was simply saying that we gave it our best shot. Nothing more. If you pick him up on every little thing he says then you will have a field day because it is often contradictory or grammatically incorrect.....you just need to understand the point he is trying to make even if he isn't putting it across very well. That just does not wash. Pardew stated before hand he was putting out a strong side against Bolton, based upon the win giving the team confidence. Based upon the selection, there was no concerted attempt to favour the team for the Bristol Rovers game, so nothing is out of place from that statement. Only 3 important players were given the luxury of only playing 3/4 hour, which is not going to be conducive to any player still carrying an injury. If you were wanting to gain fitness, 30 minutes is more than enough for a mid week game of no significance. I remember how well Connolly was going along with just his second half appearances and we all knew how fragile he was. Well that was soon master planned out of the team and onto the treatment table when started from the beginning. It is really of no significance if we beat Bristol Rovers, but it will be inspected in detail if we don't beat them. Have not, or ever will be going to any cup games this side of Christmas, but when I hear Schneiderlin putting himself about, I struggle to remember games where he has carried that through to the weekend.

The problem is, if Pardew is not showing indications we are a top 2 team after 8-10 league games, he will be gone. Whichever way you look at it, that is not going to help getting an automatic spot how ever you look at it. Yes we are better getting rid of a manager who is not cutting the mustard, but that always leaves more of a job for anyone having to pick up the pieces. The cup games this season are a total irrelevance compared to the league. We can do as well or badly in them and it gives you absolutely no points in the league. All I am concerned with is the impact those games have on the league with bookings, injuries and fitness. This is a perfect time to get the rest of our squad up to pace for the important games, not pander to some muppets CV against a half strength Premier side. I just cannot fathom Pardews logic and comments "but in terms of the schedule we have in front of us, and the priorities, this wasn't the priority game, but we certainly treated it as such." I don't want Pardew to fail, because all the implications that come with that are not in our best interests. What is slightly concerning is problems that have existed over such long periods still exist. This is worse than groundhog day, this is like watching the film for the first time, only napping to keep finding yourself at the same restart point. This really means nothing on it's own, as it's all about Saturdays game against Bristol Rovers. Win that and all's forgiven, lose that and you are opening up question marks about what is the best way forward for the club. Pardew has plenty of games left to turn things round, but what must Cortese be thinking when he hears such comments as "this wasn't the priority game, but we certainly treated it as such." He must be questioning himself as to who he did actually speak to about priorities? The league start has not been as bad as the points total indicates, although from a couple of poor teams. I have readily accepted Pardew can solve the problems by new personnel that could easily make us all happy and forget this start.

100% but too late according to Pardew, wanting that winnining mentality. The cups mean absolutely nothing this season in comparison to the League. It's up to the manager, but fail this time in the league because we committed too much in the cups and Cortese will start thinking, here we go again. Or more like, no we don't again and that will be goodbye!

With all the attacking options we have, 451 against Orient at home does not make sense. What irks me is that we have known for a long time that we have issues in midfield with 442 and have not addressed that with personnel. It's having the right players in there, such we don't present a weakness to the opposition. And get someone in position that Jaidi can offload to that can pass, otherwise it's put the neck braces on. I can't see any reason why we cannot get in the right midfield players to play 442 all the time, it makes so much sense with all the attacking options we have. It's only when we don't have the right players away from home, I really feel 451 should be an option. I am sure 451 will have it's uses along the line, especially when the team gets leggy and away from home. It will naturally bring the weaker teams on to us and we will still have far greater fire power than they can deal with. The biggest advantage we saw from it previously was the control and the opposition just could not cope with plan B when we went to 442.

I am not going to argue that some players were not at their best, or faded away after a period, but some perspective please as you pointed out. When Hammond first came to us he put in some monster performance and not just a couple. And how many were delighted with Puncheons performances? with only AL and RL being excused errors. This to me is more about coaching and tactics, where the lack of midfield control has always just been below the surface, causing all amounts of secondary problems. Go back to the start of last season to see how bad the defence was, suddenly rectified by Wotton playing defensive central midfield. We had so much control it allowed the other players to strut their stuff and take the **** out of teams. The more I see of Fonte, I believe he could take on this role with ease, even to the extent of breaking forward and scoring, either directly or by assist. Although things worked remarkably well, the Connelly factor took Pardew down another route, never being able to recover or reconsider the decision. Then against Pompey we found that with sufficient quality players operating at a high tempo, we were too much for any team in this league. The problem being that we could rarely (if ever) maintain that tempo with two games a week, the midfield disappeared and the opposition just had their way with us as it suited. You can easily see a good attacking midfielder coming in and turning things around, but I still believe the basic problem will remain. Come the heavy grounds and fixture congestion it will be back to the same old. The midfield platform to allow all the other players to do their job is just not there. Even without all our attacking options, we have more than enough fire power to overwhelm any league 1 team, but you must have the platform to allow that to happen. Give Jaidi cover and it would not surprise me he looks as sound as a pound, with an easy outlet to PASS the ball onto. I don't believe these players have all suddenly gone rotten, more the system / tactics is leaving them exposed and they end up fighting fires, rather than pressurising the opposition.

Results go his way and he keeps his job. Results go against him and he gets the sack. That is him and 91 other "dead men walking" in the top 4 divisions. Pardew is no different so no need for hysteria. As simple as, nothing more dramatic than that. Anyone that believes they know someone with definitive inside information or claim that in regards to Cortese is fooling themselves. When you consider the background Cortese has come from, I found it very surprising he allowed Pardew to stay on when he directly went against Cortese's paramount instruction of prioritising of the league. It's only natural at that point Cortese would consider all his options, along with what is available should he choose to remove Pardew. I am relatively sure that happened, Cortese would not be doing his job properly if he were not to do so. I was impressed with Cortese's decision to keep Pardew on, for something Cortese must have viewed as a direct slap in the face for his direction. He weighed up all the good and bad of Pardew, along with the alternatives. Then took the decision based upon what he felt was best for Saints, irrespective of ego or personal feelings. After all we have seen from Cortese, does anyone believe Pardew is still there based upon a couple of words from legends? I thought his comments in that regard were very precise and self explanatory. Along with any other decision he has made, if he believes he is correct, you have little chance of moving him. I thought the decision to keep Pardew on was correct, not forgetting a run that included performances no other team in this league could equal. That said, I have never been totally convinced by Pardew, with the one repeating factor I keep banging on about, midfield control. My biggest cause of disappointment so far is that the teams we have played so far were at best mediocre and the other relegation fodder. His post match comments can be good or bad, with pressure turning all his intelligence and logic inside out at times. Results will dictate how much longer Pardew stays with us, which could easily be as short as 8 games should things be bad. The cup games really do not factor heavily into this, unless the league suffers as a result. Whether Pardew comes or goes is down to results and Cortese, who I trust to make the right decision for Saints, not his ego.

I think he needs more than 2 games to attempt to correct the problems and give the team a chance to improve there finishing. We could have been 4 up by half time with a bit of luck and betting finishing and this board would have been a much happier place. lol You have to consider that Orient still look favourites for relegation and Plymouth look like a mid table team. And you can't say Orient parked the bus as Plymouth did. Which ever way you want to cut this, it has to come back to Pardew. He has had vast resources and enough time to build two teams. These are all his players, coaching and tactics, no one or thing to hide behind here. Anyone who thinks Antonio is the answer is deluded, if he never contributed enough last season, why would he be any different this, Waigo was that bit quick though, with the habit of bundling in scrappy goals. Pardew has to go on a run and show some of the previous exemplary form, as the present form is not going to give him more than 6-8 games tenure, which is more than fair. It's not as if we have not seen this before, so it's not a total shock and Pardew still has games to turn it around, but Christmas never.

I think you saw too much "white lightning" come out of the bottle. As great as those players were, I can never remember the term "lightning being used previously.

No, it will be the send off we give to Markus that will decide whether it's a disappointment or not. Irrespective of the result and size of crowd to a certain extent.

I have understood and been supportive of this policy from early on and understand the logic, with the addition that loans also come into play at the later stages. But after the Plymouth game a little doubt crept in. Holding off for players who can compete in the CCC has it's merits, but the job in hand is to get out of League 1. If that objective is compromised by flawed or impractical application, then that is a mistake. Pardew has made his decision on how we are going forward and we will just have to wait and see whether he is correct or not. Personally I am not sure but feel Pardew would not extend things of this importance, unless he felt he was pretty sure to obtain players that make a major difference. His decision and what he gets paid for, with the proof being delivered once all the windows close.

I have understood and been supportive of this policy from early on and understand the logic, with the addition that loans also come into play at the later stages. But after the Plymouth game a little doubt crept in. Holding off for players who can compete in the CCC has it's merits, but the job in hand is to get out of League 1. If that objective is compromised by flawed or impractical application, then that is a mistake. Pardew has made his decision on how we are going forward and we will just have to wait and see whether he is correct or not. Personally I am not sure but feel Pardew would not extend things of this importance, unless he felt he was pretty sure to obtain players that make a major difference. His decision and what he gets paid for, with the proof being delivered once all the windows close.

I have always felt what an exceptional person Liebherr was when it came to his involvement with Saints. Truly a one off and everything I am now hearing just seems to be confirmation. What other self made billionaire would not meddle when he is fronting all the finance, refusing to become involved with even the smallest aspect of politics. The only one directive he gave to Cortese was for exciting attcking football, to play football the Southampton way! Finding people this rich and powerful is not unknown, but mix that with the level of humility and modesty that he stands out like the giant he was. My ever lasting memory of him will be of taking his snap shots at Wembly, looking like a schoolboy in a sweet shop.

I can only underline everything you have written here, my sentiments exactly. As a football club owner, this guy was exceptional. I will keep repeating, even the Carlsberg adverts could not portray such a club owner, we well and truly won the lottery when Liebherr decided to take us under his wing. Even to the extent of ensuring our future past his own demise, truly remarkable for someone we have only had the pleasure of knowing for such a short space of time. I have never had much time for the JPT, seeing it as a non entity distracting us from the real issues. I am now so glad, even happy we went this route so Markus had the pleasure of that Wembly win. So, so glad he had something that must have repeated in his dreams many times. Normally I never care much past what I believe is best for Saints, but in this case I put the man before such feelings. When you get a person of such power, showing the humility and love for something we have been saddled with since conception, it is truly remarkable, accentuated by all the previous politics.

The song To Marian Pahars when he did his final lap of honour before leaving was extremely moving! What ever, I just cannot thank the guy enough.

When you are lining up behind the asbo warrrior for a Oxford English definition, you really are crawling out onto thin ice. About as daft as those who try to save their dogs on frozen ponds, falling through the ice and drowning, whilst the dog buggers off to safety. Saints are allowing photographers into St Marys from the opposition club for their own domestic use. I imagine so that can be reciprocated for the Saints in house photographers. Many top clubs charge a small fortune for the entry of photographers, along with very restricted clauses on use, such as area, time period and it would not surprise me for certain players. This is no direct financial barrier to the press, as not one has complained the price is too high. They are only arguing this point over a very weak ethical position, something that cannot stand up to scrutiny for even the most biased of Cortese haters. All the top clubs generate income from image rights, we are unlikely to do anything significant in the immediate future, but if you were looking to get the club geared up for full Premier, something along the lines would happen eventually. You can argue about the timing of this with Cortese, why cause the small fuss now then a much larger fuss when we are far bigger? I have no opinion either way and can see either option having merits. But if you have decided to do this now as Cortese has done, the use of only in house photographers makes a lot of sense in policing the operation. At present there are only pennies involved and getting involved in actions with various parties and controlling rights would be expensive based upon the revenue. The manner in which he has done it makes it very cheap and an effective manner for a minor revenue stream. What is unprecedented about this action is that it is being done at League 1 level, the thin edge of the wedge for newspapers in very declining readership, which will hurt their pockets should a majority of other clubs and organizations follow suit. Not a twinkle from the press about existing draconian image rights and payments at many top clubs, funny that? Only nasty Saints who have had the cheek to start the ball rolling at league 1 level. One thing Cortese does extremely well is keeping his mouth shut and should continue to do so and this will soon blow over. You can argue this from a "freedom of press" perspective, but the minute inference this has from photography alone is laughable. Even an action such as Henry's against Ireland would be very difficult to prove decisively from a press still, there is no real smoking gun here on press freedom. You would still have he photo's available from the opposition source, plus everyone in the ground (even journalists), radio, cctv and the match cameras. The press are very good at crying wolf when they deliberately front ethics in front of finance.

Your idea of "the peoples verdict" is to canvass Sun readers for their informed opinion, you don't see a small problem here? Try that in Liverpool and see if you notice the difference. In reality you more than likely gobbed off at some innocent sitting next to you, whilst you were "reading" the Sun. How any idiot can believe a photo is going to settle a controversial handball is totally ludicrous. Just what you are going to prove of a picture of Prutton next to the ref, or one of your asbo warriors with his hand on a chair is just normally not tenable as evidence. Sometimes photo's can give that justification, but very rarely in comparison to video. 99% of what you are suggesting is totally useless for controlling the outcome of events, especially when you consider the police and league have unfettered access to the cctv and video cameras operating. In case you had not noticed that the main advertising source for football clubs is on the playing strip, something we have deliberately forgone this season before any of this raised it's head. This is all about the pennies that come from image rights. Cortese wants those pennies for something he believes the club generates, not the red tops. The red tops want all those £'s from the collective and view this as another threat to their profit margins should others follow suit. We now have this "massive" Echo stand on the "freedom of the press", whereas it has absolutely nothing to do with that. This is a perk the papers used to get, which has been removed and they do not like where this is leading. With no contract to argue against, it turns to the "freedom of the press" in an attempt to argue the case. Cortese cannot change what happens with the cctv or video as that is out of his control, so trying to line this up behind the "freedom of the press" is akin to a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

Premier League clubs don't do it. It's not about money, because our photos are worth jack sh it. Even if we beat Man U eight nil in the league cup and Ricky Lambert took a dump on Mike Phelan's head, the photos wouldn't be worth that much. It's not about money. Even the papers complaining about the issue admit it's about money, this is just not in question. This is all about image rights and how they are controlled. Premier clubs that pay millions for these rights do things in different ways, but at the end of the day it's still all about controlling the image rights. I am not going to argue about the present value of image rights, but like all the £M's being spent on the infrastructure, has no real dividend for the present but something for the future. Anyone would think the Sun were the vanguard of journalistic ethics, when even a glance at the facts should leave you scratching your head. The Sun had no problem with ripping the status quo apart when it moved from Fleet Street to Wapping, sticking two fingers up as they did so. Murdoch has shown absolutely no interest in the reputation of the press and you suddenly believe he's now doing things for the good of the profession? Previously the papers normally bought the photo and image rights for that photo from the independent photographer. Saints alone are no real threat to profit to Murdoch, but if the rest start following suit and extending to various other areas, it is a major threat to their profits. Murdoch does not give a flying **** about those independent photographers as has been amply demonstrated by his previous actions with dealing with his employees and contractors. Anyone thick enough to believe this is about media control has completely lost their marbles. When was the last time the Leagues acted upon a single photo, even courts to that matter. Video and sound recordings yes, but a photo rarely.

You really need to get some balance and fact amongst that sheite. What about the Premier and CC clubs that control their image rights, absolutely no difference. If Cortese is a **** and a laughing stock, why are all the other chairmen not? You can reasonably argue that we are not going to be making much money from this at present, but this is all about putting things in place for the future, something going on all over the club in different areas. What the press do not like about this is that their margins could be squeezed in the lower leagus, not only the big boys. These image rights are something they will pay for when the need arises, you only have to look at Hello magazine to figure that out.

How much money is being made on photos from League one matches exactly? Do you really think this is some kind of goldmine the national press have been depriving poor liddle Cortese of? Whatever this is about it isn't about money. If we were that desperate for money we'd have a bloody shirt sponsor, we wouldn't be on the selling-photos-of-Dan-Harding-taking-a-throw-in gravy train . THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY. Why do Premier clubs do this then? Previously photographers had to pay a set fee for being allowed to take photographs, with the club having no rights over the images. This is more about putting everything in place for the future rather than now. Even in our pomp we were never going to command that much for image rights, until you get a home cup game against ManU and all of a sudden that goes out the window. This is one part which gives us control over our merchandising, giving us the right to earn possible revenue from this rather than others. No newspaper is going to like this because it nibbles into their margins, but they are quick in defending any item they hold image rights on.

Here's another picture closer to home. Papers / freelance make money from these pictures with the image rights. Don't get confused with freedom of the press, when Murdoch will drag your sorry arse into court if you try taking liberties with any image rights he holds, with not even a muttering of "freedom of the press". It's all about money, nothing else.

You are one of the few posters on here who's view I find balanced and with more common sense than the contents of most other sites. I am not saying you are wrong here and would like Cortese to take on board your point of view, but in the grand scheme of life, things can get a bit out of kilter here. To me this comes down to one simple pov, do you think Cortese is doing the best for the club? If yes, you can just accept what is going on and let him get on with it. Not really any alternative unless you believe there is some Machiavellian plot behind Liebherrs purchase, even then what can you do? Cortese has in the past given a couple of interviews a season and I don't think this season will be any different. At some time soon I expect another Solent interview going all over the points that have been raised over the past few months. You only have to look at the position unfolding at Aston Villa to get a good perspective of what is important at the end of the day. I only have to look back at Lowe's last year at Saints, who had to make many hard decisions for the good of the club and no matter how well they were explained, the reponse was not met with any form of logic. The fact every player on a decent wage had to go, or that we could not afford any player insisting upon their playing bonuses was completely over looked, meeting responses of Lowe was picking the team! Cortese is by no means perfect, but I fully expect a Solent interview along sometime soon to address the issues. I have been impressed with Cortese over the big issues, especially Pardew. He never let his own feelings or ego get in the way of keeping Pardew on for this season, something misinterpreted by many even now and taking into account how ****ed off Cortese was with Pardew. Pardew has the funds otherwise he would not be here, it would be sheer stupidity to not give the man the tools to finish the job. I am not certain how Pardew will turn out, but based upon all the evidence we saw last year, I feel it is right for the present.