up and away

Our worst run of results was, as you said, at the start of the season. The current run of indifferent form has been more damaging, as has the scarcity of our league games. If you take every clubs' last 8 games, then we're mid-table in the form league with 12 points which sounds okay until you realise that Millwall have 19 points in their last 8 games, Swindon have 18, Huddersfield have 16 and Colchester have 14. If you also factor in that Millwall have played 10 times and gained 23 points in the time we've played 8 games, you can see why we've fallen so far behind. Swindon have played 11 league games gaining 22 points. It all started going wrong for us against Brighton, where we sacrificed players for the previous JPT game and combined that with discarding the only formation we had any sustained success with. When we played Leeds, they had 8 fresh players starting after their midweek JPT line up, just shows where their priority lay. Upto this period Pardew had done a lot of good things, but he started redressing that imbalance with some very poor decisions. Pardew went on that good run starting with the loss to Bristol Rovers at home, to start throwing it all away gradually from the Brighton game onwards. To take us so close to the play off's then throw all that away I found very difficult to take. To see the same errors repeated time and time again as the play off's wave goodbye is mind numbingly frustrating. If you don't have control of midfield, you don't have control of anything and very good individual players in both defence or attack start to look like donkeys. When you have the option, always play pace (Papa) alongside Lambert or you become predictable and easy to defend against. Just look at our league form from this year against Millwall, Brentford, Stockport and Exeter. No losses, but only one win and a style of play that had us hanging on in large parts, apart from the last 40 minutes against the effectively relegated Stockport at home. The form we showed in these games was extremely worrying and no where near even play off form. To act in temper over this may not be the best outcome. Pardew has shown some very good points and it's imposible to say he cannot sort things out and take us forward as we all see fit. It's just up to him to show he can take us that step further before the start of next season.

There has never been a play off's or else ultimatum, but there was clearly a directive to prioritise the league above all else. Something that clearly was not followed. The risk to Pardews position comes from the fact he blatantly ignored that direction, combined with poor league results this year. All Pardew has to do is give Cortese some indication between now and the season end that he looks capable of gaining automatic promotion next year. It's too much to ask for the play off's this year, but he has to be able to instill enough confidence to be kept on. Pardew has done a lot of good things, but equally he has undone that good work with his own stupidity. Just imagine you were Cortese and we kept up this lack lustre run in the league, what to do? Do you stay with what you got and possibly risk the following season, or do you feel he has been given a fair shake? I think Pardew will be here next season, starting with a win against Norwich. But if we were to continue our current run of form, it would not surprise me to see him gone at the end of the season.

I thought you had ****ed off, promising never to return? Or has a change of medication brought you into a whole new world? You will find absolutely nothing against Cortese and Liebherr from me, what ever they decide I will gladly fall behind, even if that is Pardew. What I am stating here is near enough what the majority have stated. I am not expecting Pardew to make the play off's, that is totally unrealistic now. But like many others, what we are saying is that Pardew must show by the end of this season, some indication to have that chance of taking things up to next Christmas, otherwise what is the point? In your deluded world, you may feel that you are speaking for Cortese, but from everything that has been coming out, that is not the case. This being one of the reasons why the play off's should have been the priority this season. Pardew struggled at the beginning and eventually turned things round to make the play off's a viable option. Subsequently Pardew has repeated all sorts of errors, time and time again to take the play off's out of the realm of realistic possibility. What we have seen, is all the good and bad he displayed at previous clubs and nothing more than average considering all factors.

He has come out with a few comments that indicate pressure is not far away. The major issue is his statement in the programme notes prioritising the cup competitions, whereas Cortese has been banging out consistently that the league must be the priority. Then looking back at some JPT games, it is clear that the subsequent league games showed no sign of favour but the opposite. Any normal chief executive would fire any operating officer who went against a directive in such a manner. Personally I believe this to be just a poor exuse under pressure, factoring in the win over MK Dons on the Tuesday, otherwise I doubt this would ever have come out. Pardew has done nothing more than average so far, when you look at all the results, factor in all the variables then compare this with his peers. The big question Cortese must be asking himself, can I trust this guy when he has done the opposite to his directions? Automatic promotion has to be the objective for next season, not one of the cups if we find ourselves having a lucky run, but poor form in the league. Cortese will be asking himself, what would be the outcome of such a situation be again? Then after all this time, what indication is there that Pardew has the capability of achieving that task? because we have seen no difinitive as yet. If it was me, Pardew would have the rest of this season to prove he can deliver next season, otherwise it makes more sense to get rid of him so not to hamstring someone who can get the job done. The biggest problem and maybe Pardew's saving grace, is being able to get a sufficiently high profile manager that will give you the confidence of automatic promotion.

If a player wants to leave there is only so much you can do. If they are adamant about leaving you have very little hope. With the players we have, I cannot see any problems if we were in the CCC, but in league 1 that is totally another story. If a club like Newcastle or WBA came in for any of those players, they would be mad not to jump at the chance.

Well that's one side of the coin. The other side is that we have drawn with Millwall, Brentford and Exeter, with our only league win coming against the effectively relegated Stockport. But that only tells half the story, we even struggled against Stockport until Pardew fought back his natural instincts and lucky against the rest. When a team like Exeter can have you praying for the whistle with time to go, gives a true reflection of how far you have come.

Our biggest problem lies with the manager, not the players. Pardew has to sort the midfield enigma out such we provide to the front, without leaving a hole and exposing the defence. Because of the cups we now have 2 games a week until the end of the season and that will impact. The chances of making the pay off's are very slim, even for a team in decent form. Of course we will give it maximum to get into those play off's, but the real question is, do we keep Pardew? The last two cup games give no indication, against a weak MK Dons where any sensible manager showed where his true priorities lay and a very poor premier side, showing how many light years we are off that standard. I don't care whether Pardew comes or goes, that is down to Cortese. All I care about now is maximising our chances of an automatic spot next season. What I do not want to see is a comedy repeat of the same errors over and over. Going into the last month of this season, Pardew has to have shown he has what it takes for next season, otherwise it would be smart to have someone else lined up to give them the best crack at what lies ahead. It may make sense to keep Pardew if there are no stand out candidates, but he needs to do far more to ensure he stays.

We have plenty of excuses. We are a good to average league 1 side who have spunked it all in the cups. Very little chance now, so we can just build for next season and Wembley.

How much input Oldknow had, I am not sure but it was Cortese's decision to make everyone pay. The fact it was Oldknow who informed LM is another matter, but if it was going to be anyones job to do it? As for anyone trying to officially try and speak to Liebherr, it's nigh on impossible. There is certainly some bile directed at Oldknow, but he was only the messenger boy.

I appreciate I am well in the minority here, but there is no way I give any value to the JPT. Always want Saints to do the best, but even if we won the thing I would not brag about it. I can see the good it is doing in the minds of fans and it helps the plastics / neutrals come along. As far as what Pardew does now, I really do not believe it matters, we are far too down the road for that one. What Pardew has to do now is to show Cortese in these remaining league games, that he is worth keeping for next season. When you go directly against your boss on a financially based issue, you have to be very good or lucky, of which neither are evident so far.

The irony seems to be completely lost. The very fact we have sacrificed the league for the JPT, making the play off's a nigh on impossibility slipped by? Then the rocket science of the tactics of a two legged tie, if you need to practice that at the expense of actually getting to those play off's, then you are in serious trouble. It was a totally dumb comment brought about by the pressure of the situation.

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1961040,00.html Pardew still craves for a balance between success in the cup and the league. "This really was a trial run for what the play-offs are like and we have to work really hard to get in those play-offs now" "Of course the league is the only way you can grow as a Club, we know that and we are very focused on the league" "My job is to try and get the right balance between the League campaign and these Cup campaigns, unfortunately as I say in the league it has slipped up a little bit with draws rather than defeats. It's very frustrating, but we will put that right soon" Others have alluded to this in the programme notes, so appears to be true. This has to be the biggest load of bollix on offer, a trial run for the play offs? Cortese made things very clear, cups are nice but our priority are those league games coming up. To then be told by someone you employ, well I don't think they are my priority, I fancy something else? What's going to happen next season when we have a bad start with 3 losses and a draw, will he think it's too big a deficit and concentrate on the cups? In any normal business, Pardew would already be out of a job. If league results go wrong and Cortese feels he cannot work with Pardew, then so be it.

If this quote from the Echo is correct, then there are serious issues ahead. I kept hearing the league was the top priority but it was patently obvious it was not, the opposite in fact. If this is 100%, then Pardew has signed his own P45 and any chairman would boot his arse down the road.

Pardew has to show something between now and the end of the season that he is capable of gaining automatic promotion next season. You do not want to be changing a manager next Christmas as the damage could be done by then, though I would doubt it. The stats clearly show **** all like that, what they show is that managers who do a good job tend to stay, those that don't go. Pardew has made significant errors in the league this season to question his judgement. And anyone who believes that the league has been given even minor preference over the cups, needs a quick refresher. If Cortese sat down with Pardew and clearly told him the league must be the priority, then Pardew is on dodgy ground and it's a question of whether Cortese can hold his emotions together for the new set of circumstances laid before him. Alot will come into this decision, Pardews performances, Cortese's trust in Pardew, what alternatives are on the market and so forth. But I will put money on Cortese having a manager he believes that can do the job installed at the end of this season, whether that be Pardew or someone else!

Several valid points there, but far from painting the whole picture. I have no issue when we struggled in the beginning, though I did take issue with Pardew when he said we had turned the corner against Yeovil, with the only creative aspects for Saints coming from the officials and the opposition. Where I was in full of praise for Pardew, was the home loss against Bristol Rovers, where I could easily see we had turned the corner. Following that we went on a good run to make the playoff's a real option. By desperation we went to the 451 with Wooton sitting in front of the defence and for some reason it worked very well, even when we had to switch things round. Pardew decided to drop a winning election to get all his big guns on at once against Brighton, but it upset the balance of our success because we no longer had any control in midfield. If it's not Pardews responsibility for changing a winning formula, who is it? The other big plus with that system was that Connolly was only doing 45 minutes a game and it's more than possible we could have extended his involvement up to the present time. Then Gillett, how he has not taken back from Doncaster in the beginning of December is beyond me, playing well in a league higher. At least give him some playing time in the cups to take the load off other players. This is not that I believe Gillett deserves a starting place, but it was foolish not to bring him back in an area we were extremely short. Then the small fact we never really rested any players in the cup only to suffer directly afterwards in the league, just where is the priority here we keep being told about? Then the transfer window and everyone and his dog knew that midfield was the one area we were desperate to fix, but that hardly looks like a priority after the window has closed. From that we got Barnard, a good player but very similar to Lambert. I remember Pardew saying we need back up for Ricky and that is what he is. As one poster succinctly put it, slightly slower version of Ricky who knows where the net is. But how many times have we seen our defence lumber when we have no pace there. Something we have seen sorted by Waigo. When you look at our position going into that Brighton game, we had a very good shout of the play offs but Pardew decided to roll the dice, he got it badly wrong and he admitted as such. From that point onwards there has been a succession of self inflicteds which have taken the play offs out of our reach. Was this bad luck or bad management, well after reverting to what worked in the 2nd half against Ipswich then again against MK Dons, only to be ignored to play with a whole bunch of new toys. I firmly believe anyone with common sense could be giving us a far better shot at the play offs now. Pardew has to the end of this season to show he can turn things around and give a clue he can get automatic promotion next season. If he cannot you are taking a major risk that after all this time and resources he has learnt nothing and still does not know the way forward. As articulate and intelligent as Pardew is, a boot up the arse and a round of fecks can be far more effective with a footballer. If Pardew does not show enough for the remainder of this season, you are seriously risking the following season and a manager having no pre season to sort the team out as he wishes.

I have heard so many times from the start of the season that the league is the priority. Frankly, I never believed that, because it is clear we actually did the opposite and sacrificed the league for the cups. I assumed this was down to Cortese wanting to win something, but it is very clear now that is not the case and this is down to Pardew alone. The worrying thing I find with Pardew is the repetition of the same mistakes time and time again. With all the resources available, little was done in the window to address our main problem. If you look at his previous history, both good and bad, it’s all been on display this season. I believe Pardew has the ability to eventually sort these problems out, just totally exasperated in the manner it’s being done. I believe even though Pardew has made errors, that Cortese will not sack him this season. Why, he has to be able to get someone who he is sure will perform better, someone like Billy Davies or Paul Lambert. Even with a suitable candidate, Cortese will have to be sure he can work with him. What makes sense is to give Pardew the start of next season to see if he has wised up, otherwise bounce him. He has just made too many errors so far to justify any further faith, unless he can install that faith between now and the end of this season.

Only listened, but your view of the home games is normally identical. What I cannot forgive in Pardew is repeating the same error time and time again in certain areas. One is Papa, as you have already described. How many times does Pardew have to see this for the penny to drop? Old money seeming an appropriate indication of the time frame involved. And yet once again, the midfield fails to give control making the team far worse than it actually is. Pardew found one system that worked with Wooton, discarded it for what ever whim, reinstated it second half against Ipswich and MK Dons for it to work. Then blessed with too many toys to play with at the same time, off we go with the merrygoround again. Pardew desperately wants 442 to work to get our great attacking options into the action, perfectly understandable. But to do that he has to get control of the midfield, something he spectacularly failed to address in the window. He was not daft enough to go with 442 yesterday, but just as feeble he goes out with a 451 that would get a good kickin at mothercare. I would agree that Wooton is a poor footballer, but I can't dispute the fact he gets a job done in front of the back four and amazingly allows the others to play their game. The question is, have we learned nothing from this season. I find it soul destroying to watch the exact same main errors being repeated time and time again. Just how stupid do you have to be to repeat the same errors over this time period. It's like the youtube clip where the baboon faints when he finds a snake under a rock, only to immediately repeat it when he comes round. It's not the making of the errors in the first place, as I can see some original logic, but to continually repeat them where you know you have an alternative that works, does my head in.

Maybe you should have been there. if you were I think you would be having a whinge. After going to Brentford and seeing our woeful 2nd half performance and todays shocking last 45 minutes when Exeter ran us ragged I have got to say for the first time this season I am starting to doubt AP really knows what he is doing. I was hoping Puncheon would be the spark, but it was not difficult to recognise the general malaise you see at home games. After watching Danns in the week, someone like that would have made a big step towards sorting the team out, but what did we get? 90% of our problems derive from midfield and we singularly failed to address that in the window. Amazes me now we never tried for another goalie to sort our problems out? I don't argue these players improve the squad, but they do very little to improve the team because they are not addressing the problem. I remember Shurlock posting my exact thoughts about Hammond, what to do if he loses form or gets injured, well sadly here is your answer. Pardew is an intelligent person, but intelligence is not always found alongside common sense, so it looks here. To keep repeating the same errors time and time again, really grate. It's up to Cortese what happens to Pardew, but I would not be pleading. It would not surprise me for Pardew to sort things out and we go up as an automatic next season, equally it would not surprise me to see a repeat of this the following season.

Nor was Rome built in 5 years, more centuries. And it looks like Pardew has the same time frame. We have seen enough of Pardew to judge all his good points and bad and his previous history matches up pretty well. He has no idea how to solve the problem and by allowing him all these quality new players just confuses the **** out of him. Well at least I can enjoy the cup games now. When will Pardew figure out what to do with the midfield? answers on a postcard to the nearset job centre please.

Agree, Lambert should start. As for Jaidi I am not sure he has been rested recently. I think he is a bench man with Fonte & Seaborne the preferred pairing from now on He has put in a few lack lustre performances, but there should be enough from training for the manager to decide. To me this is all about whether this manager can actually pick a team from the multitude he has available. Hopefully Puncheon will turn out to be that missing link.

Gold and Sullivan have already said as businessmen, they are stupid. The only way they make sense of it is in being fans. Spend wisely and keep the fans onside LOL, make you mind up, one or the other.

I have never been able to see owning a football club such as Saints, as being a sound business investment. Go back 10-15 or so years and it looked a possibility but even that never materialised. If anyone can put approximate figures to this, to even hint at this being a sound business investment, I would certainly like to see them. You may come up with something that looks about favourable with a following wind, then factor in the other side and the risk involved, finding that elusive buyer who has more passion, or money than sense. Only an idiot takes something like that on, or someone who has so much money the downside is small change, easily outweighed by the pleasure it can bring. We have to be equally grateful to the Premier for the excitement it generates and one of the drives behind the current acquisition. After watching the Milan teams the other night, it must be the football equivalent of chess as a spectator sport to the neutral. Sullivan and Gold have given some very revealing and honest views on the business model for taking over West Ham. Basically there being none and only fans would do something this daft. Sullivan's further revelations about the poor state of the Premier, indicates not one being anywhere near sound. With only those privately sponsored without major issues. So much risk and trouble, against a marginal possible profit for the perfect business scenario, it just makes the odds unacceptable.

I have had a good look at the man and what possible return he can get on Saints and it just does not add up as a business proposition. The one thing it does add up as, is a hobby, passion, toy, whatever, that is well within Liebherrs entertainment budget. If you are considering this as a business proposition, you must compare all the money you put into the club against what you could expect by investing that level of money into high rate, low risk account or the stock market when conditions are suitable. Getting out of League 1 will be relative peanuts, that will ratchet up an order of magnitude in trying to get out of the CCC. Even under a very quick advancement you can easily see the total bill up around £40M, just to get into the Premier. Throw a 10% compound at that over a few years and you are up close to £60M. To then try and make a profit on that, even find a buyer is going to be very difficult and you could easily need somewhere like an extra £30M just to keep you in the Premier for the first year alone. Even taking ManC out of the equation, look at the money the likes of Aston Villa, Spurs have had to lay out just for a chance of the top 4 and where the real money lies? Then look at the man, virtually in retirement with so much money he does not know what to do with, but feels he needs some exitement more than profit. A very christian backbone so you would reasonably expect what we see is honest, straightforward and someone who won't back out on a whim. Then the crux of the matter, his relationship with Cortese, almost favoured son status. There is little doubt from what I have heard and read, that Cortese generated the interest and excitement for this to happen and Liebherr has latched onto this with both hands. What Liebherr now has is an exciting aspect to his life with someone he trusts and enjoys working with. If you look at the man and what he has done, he could easily generate far more income from his previous areas, where he made a lot of money. Here he is just reaping the rewards of Cortese's endeavours without risking a lot of money and more fan than executive. This has to be more about pleasure than any finacial reward and why I feel we are so lucky, such to be compared with lottery winners. As for the spat with the Echo, this has never been a question of press freedom. Murray is being stupid and so is Cortese, but Cortese has very little to lose. I would not even consider stacking up this minor point against Cortese, when he has deposited so much on the plus side.

Yes, that's true, a poor comparison. I have lost my patience with Pardew because of the repetition of errors in two areas. We struggled and struggled until we found 451 in desperation and it worked very well. The only problem that things looked very good when we switched to 442. So Pardew than goes off in a search for the holy grail of 442 which just did not work, completely forgetting how we solved the problem in the first place. I don't fully understand why it works with Wooton sitting in front of the defence, but it does. I have seen us having no control in midfield so many times it is beyond exasperation. This is accompanied by no support for the forwards making them look useless and a good defence now under pressure. The smart move would have been to keep things tight with what we knew we could do, until the transfer window allowed us the players to change things round. Hammond, I remember a few posters saying if we lost him or his form went, we would be in trouble. so it has. We should never have allowed Doncaster an extension to Gillett, because if he can do a good job for Doncaster a league higher, he would have been useful for us, if only in the cup games to rest players. I don't care what we do with Gillett once we get decent players in the window. Now hopefully when we get Hammond back and Puncheon can change things round we can get things moving, but it is a very big ask now after throwing away points because the manager is stuck in a groundhog loop. When we do go with 442 against the lesser teams, we often look less than ordinary without some pace alongside Lambert. I've witnessed it so many times now and seen the resulting change when Waigo goes up the middle. I keep reading that the league is our priority, well it looks anything but that to me. I understand a lot of fans interest in the cups, just not shared by me as I believe it has cost us points. With all of this, if Cortese is happy then that's fair enough but I cannot accept the excuses being made for Pardew. I accept that Pardew has done good things, but the repetition of the same errors time and time again drives me nuts. I am pretty sure we will drive on from this and might even get to the play off's, but if we do not it will be down to these repetition of errors.

We have a very good idea what Lambert inherited, close to the worst form team in the league, suddenly to turn that all around and become the best form team in the league. Had to work with what he had and just got on with it far later than ourselves. As for this ****** about gelling, just introduce one player at a time. Don't try and put two square pegs into one round hole and don't keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Our main problem has been the midfield and we only have brought in Puncheon who can change that around. Surprised we never got another goalie? More than enough talent to start dominating this league, if we don't it will be nothing to do with gelling. More too many options to get it wrong.