up and away

For someone so articulate, Pardew demonstrates a severe lack of smarts in these issues. We never gave ourselves a decent chance, compare that with Leeds trying to ride out their sticky patch now? How much sense does resting those players look like now, even though miles ahead in the league at the time?

We never blew this season in August, we blew it in December for a number of reasons which all go back to the manager. Pardew got us into that position, then took it away. We got within touching distance of the play offs, only to dispense with the 451 that actually got us into that position. All we had to do at that point was to minimise our losses, until we could get the players in the January window. If we had continued just playing Connolly for 45 minutes a game, how long could we have extended his involvement? Even when playing the 90 and fit, it was not the answer as we soon found out. If we prioritised the league rather than the cups, another area where we could have picked up points. Why was Gillett never brought back in the beginning of December, where we had mounting problems and a vital need in midfield. There is no way anyone can say that whilst doing a very good job for Doncaster against far better opposition, he could not of been of some value for us as a defensive midfielder. To try and fail is one thing, to not even bother is criminal. Many fans point out the good football and the excitement of a Wembley appearance to come. Well in my mind, we have just sacrificed one Wembley appearance for another. Just ask yourself if you had the chance of going to Wembley for the JPT or the play offs, which would you pick? That puts a different colour on those apples.

Pardew has done a lot of good things, but there is an inherent fault in the team that can only be fixed by Pardew or by removing him. This is not luck or other teams raising their game, it's about our performances dropping off to varying extents. Pardew has one system and 11 players, which is great when those players have the energy levels and form. When they don't (which is frequent), there is no plan B and little we can do to influence the result. The problem is very simple and is a function of having control of the midfield. Every Saints fan and his dog knows that when we lose that midfield control, we are no longer masters of our own destiny. Lambert and Barnard are next to useless, if having to create their own chances and any defence will eventually succumb when having a massive hole in front of it. The system or the players must be changed to ensure that midfield control and that is singularly where Pardew fails. Whether it's 442 or 451, you must start off with either the system or the players to give you that control. So maybe we would not have beaten Huddersfield 5-0, only 3-0, but we would not have dropped all those other points, with the play offs within easy reach. 451 was very successful for the team, even when returning for the 2nd half against Ipswich and MK Dons. It was a very easy way of getting midfield control which had the flexibility of a plan B. What does this mean in reality, just sacrificing 1 player from Lallana, Schniederlin, Barnard for example, to either bring in the right type of player or to change the system. We have more than enough of an attacking force to cope without one of these players, we can have next to no attacking force when we do not have control of the midfield. And if things are not working out, we now have a plan B that the opposition will then struggle to contend with. It's one thing starting against a very attacking 442 to suddenly be confronted with it in the second half of a match, when it's far more difficult to get into the mind set or the legs to co-operate. I don't want Pardew to go as he has done so many good things, but the problem has to be solved. The answer lies with him in what ever form. This is not a knee jerk in reaction to the Swindon game, as that could have been either way. But when you consider that game and all the other failures, there is an extremely worrying trend.

Give Pardew all the plaudits for those great games against Pompey, Norwich, Walsall and Leeds, equally remind him of the errors of his ways against Exeter, Tranmere, Wycombe and Brentford. I said after the Pompey game that we could easily beat Norwich playing like that, but equally that we could never keep it up for two games a week. The Swindon game was not that bad, it's not improbable that we could of won the game. But Swindon exposed our achilles heel, got control of the midfield to find our attack was neutered and the defence under pressure. You can blame the defence for hoofing it, but when you have a midfield in control all of a sudden you have so many more options to pass. This is very simple, make sure you have control of the midfield. If that means an extra man, so be it because everything disappears when we do not have that control. You don't have to play 451, but have the players on the pitch that can if required. We have such a superior pool of talent to any other side in this league, we will still have more than enough fire power even if we have to play an extra defensive midfielder. As one manager recently said, Ricky Lambert covers all our transfer and players wages for the season. Tactically Pardew has been left groping at fresh air several times this season, something he could easily address with a more safety first policy. Equally we never addressed the problem in the January window after it had already plagued us for so long. We have played superb football when the players have the stamina to make the system work, but watching Lallana against Portsmouth run around like a blue arsed fly, you knew it could never be sustained twice a week. A lot of anger from last nights game as the pipe dream of the play off's were seen for what they actually are. If we do not address this problem we will be lucky to make automatic promotion next season.

Exactly, we were excellent against Leeds. Leeds never had the options, we removed that source even and though it was only 1-0, we had control over what they did. Swindon was a different kettle of fish, they got on top and had plenty of options. I have been saying exactly the same thing since we played Pompey where there was a marked difference in our style of play, even believing we would do Norwich. We just cannot keep this style of play up when playing twice a week with the players we select. Either rotate the players or use a more defensive system that does not require the same energy levels. It is so obvious when you see us fail to get to second balls first while the opposition do, something we do very well when we have the energy levels. You can have a go against some players, even Swindon being lucky, but it will continue to happen when a team fronts up to us in midfield and we don't keep it going or get the cushion of goals. One thing I was impressed was how Swindon tracked back to double up in the full back position, nullifying our threat from the wings. Papa changed the shape of things, but we never had enough control at that point.

This is down to the manager, uses the same players and system irrespective of games in a week. Pardew likes his 442 and it certainly can work, but for these players only if we maintain a high tempo game from the midfield. Unless we get the goals to put us on top, we will struggle when they match us in midfield and we don't have enough in the tank. Play a more defensive line up such you don't need to expend so much energy in midfield to keep control should help the issue, it's not as if we do not have enough attacking options with 1 less, far more than any other team. Either rotate the players such we can mange two games a week or line up with a more defensive system. It's exactly the same thing that has been happening time and time again. Luckily we have put in some very impressive performances along the way. As well as we have played in some games, I really am surprised Pardew has allowed this to go on for so long. Not quite good enough for automatic promotion as yet.

I didn't say it was an excuse. I'm just saying it is hard to criticize Pardew because over a long period (i.e. the last 24 games) he has made Saints into a team that is earning enough points to win this League if form is maintained. Yes, I know the season didn't start in October, but it bodes well. Makes Cortese's recent comments about League performance a little harsh. Pardew turned it round 5 months ago. The main point is that we got so close to the play off's in December, then threw all that good work away by concentrating on the cups. That makes Corteses comments very valid and shows the contrast with Simon Grayson. Leeds rested something like 7/8 players in the JPT before our game and never gave the JPT priority at any time. Even though miles ahead in the league, those decisions could be vital at the end of the season, equally ours. Only Grayson deserves any praise for that stance.

Although the 5 year plan was reiterated, he specifically said the January purchases were to get into the play off's this year. There is no rift with AP, but he clearly left his options open at this moment in time. I really cannot understand why fans are concerned about the finance. Liebherr has more than enough money and if any loans were to be made, I can't see anyone doing that without securing it against Liebherrs capital. Even so, there is absolutely no difference with all the finance being loaned / given by Liebherr. He can do exactly what he likes with the club or it's assets at any time. The guy is a businessman driving a project, exactly what you would expect from a banker. That said, the football side of things definitely gets to his emotions as other normal projects may not?

There is something wrong when our performances nose dive off a cliff. It's not the opposition raising their level, it's the total drop off in our performance which is the cause. This is going to continue to happen if the issue is not addressed. It's always the same issue, the opposition get on top of our midfield and we just disappear. The smart move away from home would be to start with the extra defensive midfielder until we have control, then change around as and when required. In some ways I rate today's win higher than the result against Huddersfield. Leeds did everything they could to upset our balance and control and we stood firm. This was exactly the sort of Leeds performance that I thought would worry Saints, but we came through with flying colours. Leeds could easily have gone the same as Huddersfield if we had got the second our play more than deserved. This was the complete performance, very professional. Leeds tried, but there was just no doors left open for them and they ended up looking average.

You could well be correct, I think our optimum may well be around 35k, really not a great deal of value if that turns out to be the case. I really doubt the cost of an extra 8000 seats at St Marys would be cost effective, something like 3 times the cost of the original seats. That just does not square when you can raise ticket prices a marginal amount and arrive at the same figure! You can get some very good predictions of Premier take up by looking at crowds with success in League 1, CCC and comparing what happened last time in the Premier.

It all depends upon how Leeds set up. If they set up to take us on and play their own game, I fully expect them to go the same way as Huddersfield. If they play the same way as they did at home by strangling us in midfield, I think they will get the same result.

Pardew does come out with some bollix when the squeak is on, there is nothing wrong with most of those pitches. Stockports looks really bad but I have seen a lot of good football played on there. When you go up against a very good side like Huddersfield and are first to every 1st and 2nd ball, then cannot get near that level against Tranmere, it's nothing to do with the pitch. Against Norwich there was only one team in it, against Wycombe we could not even win a corner. The pitches are just a poor excuse for a basic flaw at the heart of the team. Just like the -10 was run out as an excuse, this is equally invalid.

This one would more than likely go down as the best, other teams may view it otherwise. Pires goes into the box, hooks his trailing leg behind his running leg and goes down in a heap with no Portsmouth player near him. Not a minutes hesitation, stonewall penalty from the Southampton born referee.

This was not so much a 451 against 442, more the issues we face because of the players and the demands put on them. There is absolutely no doubt 442 can work for us, it is what it takes to get it to work and whether it's sustainable with the players selected. I remember Craig Brown replying about his secret to get average players doing so well for Scotland, just one simple tactic of having one more midfield player than the opposition. I don't want this to come over as heavy criticism of Pardew because he has done a lot of good things, but if he does not address this problem it will remain. You can take away an attacking midfielder and still have the most offensive line up in the division! Even better you can bring on that attacking midfielder when the opposition has been blunted.

Without doubt there is a major flaw in our team and this has to go down to Pardew, I just hope he can sort it out before it's too late for him. It's not the opposition or the pitch, our performances just disappear off the radar after games of exceptional bliss. I still cannot believe we never even won a corner at Wycombe we were so far off the boil? We do not have the ability to absorb pressure and hit back, well not with the formation and players we are playing at present. When I look back on those games against Portsmouth, Walsall and Huddersfield our midfielders took the game to them, quickly closed the opposition space and were nigh on first to every first and second ball. We just cannot maintain this type of game when playing twice a week. Compare this to when we were playing 451 with Wooton in front of the back four, resulting in the strings of 3-1 in our favour and what got us within touching distance of the play off's. We could get control of the midfield and we created plenty of chances, normally not taken and often going to a goal down against the run of play. When we had to turn things around and go to 442 to chase the game, it was never an issue. Just an additional player and plenty of energy reserves to take the game by the scruff of the neck. The home league game against MK Dons epitomised this, such total midfield domination it was embarrassing, then changing to 442 to get the job done. If we do not change, such we can absorb pressure when we are not on top, this basic flaw of performances totally dropping off will continue to happen. The better players we have the lesser this effect, but it will not eradicate it. We have to be able to control the midfield without every player needing to be on the top of his game. Which in my mind means sacrificing one of our attacking midfielders for a defensive midfielder, preferably a bit more mobile than Wooton, but he clearly demonstrated what could be achieved. You can always throw on that attacking midfielder when the need arises and you have taken the sting out of the opposition.

Absolutely agree- nothing is more addictive (and agonising) than sport's unpredictability. Its also character-changing - i bet anyone who follows sport seriously, esp anyone who supports a team like Saints is also a very different person for doing so. Lets just say I've learnt not to assume or extrapolate too much as sh*t can always ambush you. Some people might call it toughminded humility; others might call it spineless fatalism Still 8 draws on the road, almost half our away games, the most in the league. Even if no game is the same - that strikes me predictable and predictable for all the wrong reasons. We have been exceptionally good in some recent games, equally we have been exceptionally bad in many others. Pardew has over come our deficiencies in midfield by the energy of our wingers and central midfield, something which is not sustainable when you are playing two games a week. It so noticeable with Premier teams, our poor little dears have no chance. This is not something I would blame the players for, either rotate them or change the system such we do not require such levels. One thing that was apparent previously, was being able to do it more regularly based upon a counter attacking set up, we never blew our clogs in the first 45.

Oh behave :smt018 were talking about a midfielder who has scored 14 goals this season (that is more than quite a few strikers in this league) and is rated by football pundits and sports writers in the press, he also often singled out by other teams fans as one of our best players. No player should be untouchable but becuase he has missed some shots he should be dropped? Lamberts missed a few so has Barnard, Fonte missed one today should we drop all of them. This is not rocket science, Lallanna will have these types of games when he is playing twice a week, so will Schneiderlin and Hammond. I have been really impressed with Lallana since Portsmouth, buzzing around, getting to the second balls and looking sharp. He just cannot do it all the time. Surman spent weeks off the boil at times, it's only natural especially for the younger players. If the opposition start getting in their faces it makes it even more difficult. Pardew has got them playing 442 well, but it has required a lot of effort to maintain control, something that's not going to be there if you are continually playing twice a week. Personally, I don't really believe we have the correct solution for the midfield unless we can guaratee that level of physical input. Which is always going to take it's toll when the games come thick and fast, exaserbated by heavy pitches.

If Pardew goes, it will be because he prioritised the cups instead of the league in combination with results. I don't think he will get rid of Pardew, but further results could have an influence. No biggy, this was always going to happen somewhere along the line, surprised it was so soon and as you say Exeter it was. Same old problem, can't get control in midfield and everything disappears. I was pretty sure this was coming, as to gain control in midfield we have had to put in so much effort. This is not a problem solved and will keep recurring until the underlying issues are addressed.

No, it was Pardews comments a few days earlier, that he prioritised the JPT ahead of the league which got this ball rolling.

No, it was Pardews comments a few days earlier, that he prioritised the JPT ahead of the league which got this ball rolling.

Not only that, I expect them to have a couple of key players sidelined. Pretty sure we should get this one, but was very impressed with their full backs at St Mary's. For me, we can squeeze the life out of them and take home a 1-0, that would be just as impressive in my book.

Ipswich had just bought Alan Lee for a couple of packets of fags and we were only 3 months into Fullers 2 year recuperation period. What a great buy Lee was for that league. Hajto was massive, the whole team was massive. But the problem was only Dennis Wise seemed capable of winning a header. We had by far the tallest set of players in that league, but consistently let in headers whilst equally being unable to score from them. I don't think I have ever been so apprehensive when WE won a corner or free kick, as it nearly always ended up as a good attacking opportunity for the opposition, if not goals.

At last some balance! Was it 9 points, I thought it even got down to 6 during one point? But this is the key point and time within our progress and it all started going wrong against Brighton. Pardew got his tactics completely wrong, discarded a winning system and as a result we then suffered. I accepted Pardews idea of the holy grail in a 442 formation but could readily see we never had the players to make it work. Why, in case you have all forgotten the struggles we had at the beginning, trying to find anything that worked. Anyone with common sense at that point would have tried to minimise any damage whilst he waited to get in the players he needed in the window. Not only that but we deliberately sacrificed the league for the JPT, something Pardew brazenly admits in defiance to the direction of Cortese. I was surprised that 99.9% on here were prepared to give him to the end of this season even. Pardew did a lot of good things, equally a lot of bad but now we have actually seen what is possible, a new dimension that has finally been made to work. The problem has always been with Saints, not the opposition. You can try and excuse some of the performances by the opposition raising their game, but in reality it was the drop off in our performances that were the real issue. So going back to the original post, the overwhelming majority on here were at least prepared to give Pardew to the end of this season, something that looks to be taken on. Bearing in mind the mistakes made along the way, that seems more than fair. I fully expect us to have another couple of blips this season and not making the play off's, but we have at least seen a solution for the future.

Nope. I would not word it exactly as Alpine has, but I can definitely see a point. There have definitely been times when we were not playing well that Lallana drifts into positions that do not help. Equally the same effective energy levels are not there or not so effective. That said, when others are doing their job properly, Lallana is a real asset and shines within the team. He can do it on his own but not as I expect of Puncheon. I really doubt Lallana will be able to keep up the levels of recent performances throughout the season, that would only be natural for a lad his age. Lallana is still young and will suffer in a demanding league such as this. It does not mean the player is crap, but it does mean he still has things to learn, stamina to build, which will all eventually come in time. It happens to all young players, I particularly remember Surman going through a very long period, sandwiched by good periods that made him a target for the Premier.

I don't think any Saints fan would say this was in anyway down to the opposition, we were just simply superb. When you consider the relative merits of both Walsall and Huddersfield, then apply a similar performance to Walsall, it is no surprise it affected their performance. You only had to look on the faces of the Huddersfield players at the end of the game to see they could not quite figure out what had happened to them. Where the Huddersfield manager could not bring himself to giving Saints the praise they deserved, Walsall had no problems in that respect. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletc...league_on.html As much as I would like to see us get that play off spot, just take the average points those other play off hopefuls have already gathered and extend that to the end of the season, truly mission impossible for us. We will need at least 2 teams to implode and no one else to up their game. Just a marginal improvement in their averages over the closing games will effectively put it out of reach for us, even with a faultless response. That's with us maintaining this high tempo game for the rest of the season, avoiding vital absences due to bookings or injury. One hope there is, being that we severely traumatise these teams such they get no where near their previous form. And if it comes down to goal difference, no point in them even looking. At least Pardew has given us a good indication what we can expect next season, something no one will have any issue with. It's now just a question of being able to hang onto those players to avoid taking a backward step.