up and away

If you read the thread you will see most people don't think he will go anywhere and certainly not in January. However, you are kidding yourself if you think that we will hold on to all of our best players. Whilst perhaps there is no financial requirement to do so, every player has his price and the reality is that it is down to the player. If we dont make the play offs this year and don't look like automatic contenders, next season, what do you expect Lallana and co to do when the Prem boys come knocking. Things are certainly much much better than they were, but we will still lose some of our best players. So true. If ManU cannot guarantee being able to hang onto players, what possible magic fence do we have to keep hold of players. We have no financial pressures to sell, but even Lallana would go should he wish it with his contract running out.

You make this sound like all these people with no interest / access to the web will no longer see a report in the Echo? Nothing has changed from that respect, with the exception that the Echo now has a more difficult path in reporting the event. So from this aspect the fans are not inconvenienced and you can remove the "screw you" placard attached to Cortese's neck. I can see Fitzhugh's point and accept it would be best this never happened, but equally I know the club have gone out of it's way to be accomadating to the Echo, far more than previously. There maybe a couple of reasons Cortese has taken this action but it looks like a lack of respect has brought this to a head. As far as the red tops are concerned, they are not involved in this equation so trying to promote a position here is pointless. If it were to happen it would be a different issue.

All I know is that we could not have done "In That Number" without all the old Echos to give us the descriptions of all the matches. Thank God this is the first time in 121 years that it has happened. I see there is a big spread on the new plans on the official website with a long interview with Cortese but the Echo ban is not mentioned. For the record I am 100% behind the way it seems this club is being run but I do fear a mistake has been made on this particular issue. But where is the mistake? There is no sideshow going on here, because Cortese is not magnifying any reaction. In todays age there is very little the club needs from the Echo, it is the Echo which have all the needs. The club has bent over backwards to the Echo since Cortese has come in, often with them having information before the official website. Cortese wanted to make a splash of the proposed training facilities and asked the Echo to hang back. The Echo decided that a story of this magnitude and discussed on web forums was a point where it could not care a damn or felt it had to draw a line in the sand, so decided to print. Cortese decided that if you cannot be bothered to do me one small favour, why should I offer you any assistance at all? This is more a matter of respect than anything else. You cant take take take all the time, then release all on top of the cake during desert when you feel the need arises. If this gets brought up in the future, I really doubt Cortese will have instigated it. If it does turn out to be a slanging match, it will just be the Echo in the corner.

That's exactly how I would play this one, but I don't see it happening. One good thing is that Leeds had that cup replay against Kettering going to extra time, along with their JPT semi final against Accrington Stanley, also on Tuesday. The game at Leeds could easily be 4-0 either way, but I would definitely back our forwards if we have a midfield turn up. As already stated, putting Thomas and James on the right makes a lot of sense, with the option of Waigo if required. My fear is for Hammond who gets through all the work in midfield. If he cannot put a shift in, I am not sure who will. I would rest Hammond for Tuesday, but pretty sure Pardew would not accept that consequence. I could see us winning the Leeds game easily, but I expect we will have left that performance against Norwich and get cuffed at Leeds. Hopefully Leeds will be more knackered than us, but there is nothing like a home crowd to turn that around.

Just as well, this had all the hall marks of Brighton all over again. You can see the game plan teams are playing against us, pressurise the midfield and it will open up before you. Tranmere never had anyone who could take advantage so at the end of the day it ended up an easy win. Harding's goal went in and we looked a different team and so did Tranmere, end of story. Lambert's strikes were awesome, but Connolly is absolute class. Lallana is now doing a very solid job, maybe not so pleasing on the eye, but more effective overall. Bart now just about has it over Kelvin, just because of his height and reach. If this midfield turns up against Leeds, it will be Huddersfield all over again. If we gain control, Leeds could easily get the same fate.

I think things have got out of kilter here, it's all about balance. Unless anyone is trying to say we should keep the Kingsland open irrespective of numbers or cost, what the club have done is the fairest and easiest way of getting things done. What the club has done is made things as fair as possible, cheap as possible and by far the easiest to organise. Tickets can be ordered early because you have no waiting for which season ticket holder is taking up their option and the greater possibility of fitting in groups, because you no longer have to fit in around those season ticket options. Plus you have no favouritism to any season ticket holders for this cup game. This has to be by far the best way of doing things in this instance. Unless you are trying to argue the point that Liebherr is tight and should keep the Kingsland open. There is really no logic in your position when you consider the requirements of all, rather than a few.

Only if you think 'biting the hand that feeds you' is a good move! Also calling Cortese an 'arrogant pillock' based on the evidence disclosed is at best an act of ignorance. From the very beginning Cortese has given the Echo carte blanch on it's coverage, even over the official site. So there must be a good reason Cortese has done this. Either the Echo never had the courtesy of running this past Cortese, or Cortese specifically asked them to hold back for some reason. For what ever reason I expect this will get sorted eventually, unless the Echo turned him down flat in holding the story back. Cortese is just looking after Saint's interest and has nothing to lose, only the Echo is in that position.

I see the point you're making, and it is a valid one. However, Gillett isn't the only fish in the sea, and Saints no longer have to keep players they don't want. After years of being on the fringes, it's clear [to him] that he's never going to become a regular Saints player, unless something happens in the next few weeks to turn the Southampton footballing world over. Simon has been around the Saints fringes for years now, and the first team just keeps passing him by. If not for anything but for the lad's sake, it's time to let him go, so that he can play some regular football. Incidentally, do people realise he's now 24..? His football life is passing him by, and he plays about 10+ games a year, mostly coming on as a second half, or last minute substitute. If I had the prospect of a club wanting me to play for them regularly, I'd want to go too. I am not sure you fully appreciate the implications, but it is possible you may with the injury to Murty. I am not really worried whether we keep Gillett after the January window, if we can replace him with someone equal or better, Gillett's future is the least of my concerns. What does concern me is the amount of fixtures we have before we can get in a capable replacement and the possible damage that may have on our ability to reach the play off's. Pardew had at last found a solution allowing him to start with Lambert, Connolly and Lallana and still have a midfield that does not fold against the likes of Brighton. That included Murty who is no longer available for this heavy fixture period. We have already given Doncaster an extension, so the option of Gillett maybe remote. But this is it, Doncaster play a very similar passing game to Saints, with Gillett holding the midfield together. Getting praise from their supporters, at a level higher and against better opposition. We dropped points against Brighton and Norwich which could have been avoided. After the Norwich game which had to be the best entertainment so far this season, I thought someone like Billy Davies would have come away with a nasty 1 goal win. At the time I would far prefer the entertainment to some of the gruesome deliveries served up by Derby under Davies, but in the grand scheme of things, what is the most important? It is vital we give ourselves the maximum opportunity to get out of this league this season. Because of the implication it has on keeping hold of our better players. Pardew has dropped the ball a couple of times in regard to maximising our chances of getting into the play off's, this just looks another example. If we make it into the play off's, all's forgiven and this is just academic. In the grand scheme of things it does not worry if it's Pardew, Davies or Mick McCarthy getting us into the Premier, as long as it's done in the shortest possible time. Others may argue over the time issue, but looking at what McCarthy did with Wolves and Davies is doing with Forest, it does not look that much of a burden to watch. Because at the end of the day if you have the money to keep the team in the Premier, would any of these managers be first choice, irrespective of their ability to get into the Premier?

I really liked Strachan for the first 2 or 3 years. We played decent, if pragmatic, football and were difficult to beat and his post-match interviews were usually amusing. However, I noticed that his "quips" were becoming more like barely veiled insults towards the press and our players after the FA Cup Final. I also had severe misgivings about his man management at the time. We all knew Rory Delap could hurl the ball a long way but Strachan told him not to. He also thought Kevin Davies gave away too many fouls to be a regular starter and was too physical. I was pretty certain at the time that Agustin Delgado would have played if asked and that Strachan actually chose not to play him. The "yoghurt" quip seemed amusing but was probably quite hurtful to the the player especially when translated into Spanish. Lets not forget that the FA Cup run included one great game (4-0 over Spurs) and the rest were instantly forgettable dross against lower-league teams until we met a vastly superior team in the final and they beat us without breaking a sweat. Like you, I really liked WGS and still feel that he has a lot to offer football. But on the down side I feel he is very limited tactically and his ability in the transfer market was minimal at Saints (his ability, not others). What WGS is very good at is getting the team super fit and getting even the lighter weights to actually address themselves defensively. That did not mean playing dirty, but keeping their foot or head in their even though they knew it may hurt. To me WGS's whole ethos was encapsulated in the 1-0 win at home against ManU in his final season. Kept everything tight and worked hard as a unit defensively until Beattie headed the winner some where in the 80th minute. This is what WGS did and you got no surprises with lesser teams. You get the feeling that he finds it difficult drummming the same mantra into players season after season, without the end product diminishing, even though it has shown success. I remember the 1-0 home defeat to Steau Bucharest, where having them watched several times playing 442, they turned out in a 352 formation. Completely bamboozled us in the first half until we made changes, but the damage had been done. I remember when he quoted the slight surprise that they turned out in 352, even more surprised when one of the journo's asked, "don't they normally do that in European competitions?" Every manager has pluses and minuses and that does not detract from WGS still being a good manager who I would gladly have seen at Saints at the beginning of the season.. Out of Pardew and WGS, I would still go for Pardew, with one caveat, he must maximise our chances of getting out of this league this season.

This just underlines how lucky we are, I still cannot believe it happened to us. It really looks like Liebherr is in it for the long term, but we can only hope on that one, along with his health.

Who took penalties when Le Tiss and Shearer were in the same side? and Why? There is little doubt in my mind that MLT is the superior penalty taker over Shearer, but I am pretty sure it would be Shearer I would pick to do the training. Many times MLT would not be looking at the ball but at the goalie, something the vast majority of even good players cannot do. And Matty would then just strike through the ball or open / close the angle of his foot in reaction to the goalies movements. An absolutely suberb talent but I cannot remember any that played with him copy his style, it was just too difficult for them. That said he should still have a wealth of information to pass on.

I suggest you actually look at what is happening on the field. If we don't have control of the midfield, we cannot guarantee any sort of result. I thought this would be obvious to even your limited vision. Just recently the midfield has been working with the last two games, but we have all seen it fall apart previously with ease. Wooton is not a starter from previous games when we start with Lallana, Connolly and Lambert. Where are you going to turn if we start to have any sort of problem? The logic in not getting Gillett back is totally dumb, even if you never use him. If we fail to give ourselves maximum chances in getting into the play off's it is totally stupid. We should have got Gillett back and given him a cup game or subs appearance to see if what he has been doing at Donny can be repeated here. It's an absolute no brainer that would cost us nothing and possibly gain us everything. Take another season in this league and have the possibility of losing Lallana and maybe one more decent player? Is it really worth it for the minimal salary of a couple of weeks in December. This is shear stupidity in letting him stay at Doncaster for the sake of a couple of weeks of minimum wage. I am not saying Gillett will make the difference, but it is totally stupid to not find out when it virtually costs nothing to do so!

It all depends what Pardew has in his plans in the January window, or if our new found midfield does not suffer with problems or injuries up to that point. It did not make sense to give Doncaster an extension or sell him on until we have that position covered. For me getting this wrong would be worthy of the sack for Pardew, I cannot see the point in letting someone who has put in the performances for Doncaster, in a position we are light in make any sense. This is stupidity with a capital S, at least hold on to him until we have found a replacement. You only have to look at the reviews from Doncaster fans to see he has been doing a very good job, against very good teams a level higher than ourselves. Took 2 or 3 games to get his fitness fully up to speed but see for yourselves the Donny views http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=184&fid=96&sty=2&act=1&mid=2123814642 If we don't get into the play off's this season it would be a travesty because we had not bothered to hang onto Gillett to cover up to the New Year or find we have someone that can make a difference. I am fully aware he has not impressed when given a chance, but he has never been tried in the one position we have seen him do a job for us and one he is doing well for Doncaster. I just cannot see the logic in letting a player who is putting in these performances go until you have cover, at the cost of what, peanuts! If I was Cortese and saw us miss out on the chance of the play offs because of problems in our fragile midfield, this would be a very expensive mistake that could require squaring.

A bit unfair. It's a redevelopment of existing buildings on private land, shielded from the road, and no part of it will be any more visible from the road than the present buildings are, so even individuals who are concerned about inappropriate development (like myself) should have no issues with this. I like it, from a general point of view, as well as as a Saints fan. This is the New Forest and what is normal for the rest of Britain becomes a nigh on impossibility in this realm.

indeed...im amzed that some think reaching the playoffs is is unlikely....even if we have another little stutter we are easily good enough to make up the ground on swindon etc... With our previous form and style of play the play off's were too far away. Pardew has been trying various formations in midfield to get Connolly, Lallana and Lambert into the formation and still have a midfield that stands up to the opposition. With Murty coming back and putting James in midfield, along with Morgan growing a pair, Pardew seems to have taken big steps in that direction. I have always believed if he could do it we would really take off, what I was not sure of whether it was possible with the players we had. Everything now looks very bright if we can keep this going.

If we get into the play off's, it will mean that we have played such good football that even Leeds would not be rated any greater favourites in that group. Practically, if we reached the play off's our odds would be more like 3/4.

One persons deadwood and hangers on are other persons club president. Just why exactly do you feel the need to have one? They are all welcome to come along and watch Saints, no restrictions, no agenda and no politics. This is one of the best things Liebherr has done, no divisions any more, just fans who want to be at the game. This is the last thing I want to see happen and what we have now are fans at the games who just support Saints and want to see them play. Some of the things I used to witness with complementaries brought me closest to wondering why I bother to pay. It is far better now that we only have people who come along because they just want to watch the team. This is one subject where I would write to Cortese and ask why I should bother to continue to pay. I have absolutely nothing against John Mortimer and happy to see him at Saints, but no way do I want to see him back in any role along with what ever else trails behind.

It must be a football fan thing, with only the odd one with a pinky in reality "You are saying the way not to go bust like Southampton is to spend more money that we haven't got. Isn't there something wrong with your argument there?" Well at least one can actually remember what happened.

Every year you get those horrible mid winter games, low crowd and little atmosphere, but we won this one rather than the usual 0-0. Lambert and Hammond were poor last night, but this is the exception rather than the rule and if we want to move up the table it will be only because these two drag us up there. What I saw for the first time last night was the "expected" performers not deliver but the slack was taken up by performances from those not recently been faring so well. In reality it was a comfortable win but we have definitely tailed off from our earlier performances. What's going to be very interesting is how we perform at the weekend, because I am not sure that will be good enough or that the same players can fill in again! This maybe is just what winning "ugly" is actually like, but I am not 100% on that as yet.

Maybe my view is biased, but I cannot see the point of the JPT and would not claim it as a trophy won for fear of embarrassment. That would be almost as bad as the time we listed the 5 a-side trophy on our honours list. What really would concern me if we lost the likes of Lallana because we had to stay another season in this division. I am pretty sure we have already suffered in the league because of our involvement in the JPT and maybe our position is now such that the JPT is no longer a distraction. After all this time we are still not even out of the relegation zone, so the realistic hopes of the play offs may have passed us bye. I would have preferred us to put out the youth team for all the cups and concentrate on the League, but at this juncture I can't see the harm for those fans wanting their day out at Wembley.

I got roasted on here by daring to suggest Orient managed to do the same thing.... I would say right to a certain extent, as the problem appeared the same in both games. Never attended Orient but according to all the reports, Hammond had a bad day after putting in so many great performances in midfield. Very simple, if we don't have control of the midfield, it's pot luck what the result will be. Against Brighton the problem was exactly the same but the way we set up exposed that weakness. Whether it was an inherent weakness of the players and the system or Brighton is not totally clear, but Brighton certainly filled their boots on what we gave them. Again same against Norwich, when you have players walking through midfield without issue it is going to have consequences. I can understand why Pardew wants to get 442 to work because it means we have the best of the talent on the field. But if that means losing control of midfield everything then falls apart. The forwards cannot get the supply, or the defence is left exposed, or a combination of both. Find that person who can go alongside Hammond in midfield and I can easily see 442 being better, but until you reach that point 451 has to be the way to go for the first half at least. James may well be able to provide that answer but I have concerns about his ability of when to stay and when to go. I do think Gillet can do a job there as described by the Doncaster fans, because that is exactly what he is doing a level higher and against far better opposition. He has played every game for Doncaster, getting subbed in the first few until his fitness came back but is now doing what he should be for us, criminal.

What I cannot understand with Pardew is his position on Gillet. We are desperate for someone half decent to put in a performance in the defensive midfield and Gillet is doing more than that against the likes of QPR. You could understand when you are over loaded in a certain position, but this is one area where we are desperate. I see someone from here has already looked into this here , a lot of praise from their fans and I believe he has started every game for them? Time to bring back the bouncer from Mothercare. He put in performances for us in this position and is now doing so a league higher against decent opposition. I agree he does not look so hot in other positions, but that is not what we need.

What a turn around. We could not even compete with many League 1 clubs last season. Reminds me of when Pompey got promoted, what little money they did have then, was a kings ransom in comparison to other clubs.

I think you will find that most of the players we have sold to Premiership clubs wanted to move but just because we have new owners it may not mean that the club does not have to balance the books. That's very true. You only have to look at the experiences of all the other clubs. Even if you have all the money, that does not mean you can hang onto a player. It does mean you can pay higher salaries to keep some happy but eventually the books will have to be balanced. Liebherr is no different in that respect and if Lallana's contract is running low and he wants out, I am sure a deal will be done as it is with all other clubs.