up and away

A DOF is only really needed prior to going into the Premier, where all the big money and decisions will be made. Can you get someone of real value with that criteria considering the position the club is in now? As for Pardew, I think he will deliver the goods though I will not hide my disappointment at the progress so far. I find his comments particularly lame in comparison to reality and the situation in hand, almost a sense of mild panic. He seems slow in recognising problems but without a doubt is getting there. The players he has brought in all look pretty good to say the least. I can easily see Pardew doing the job, just frustrated at the progress and the hopes of getting out of this leaue this season.

A good item hectors house. Lawrie McMenemy used to say that footballers are only people and ..." you need to kiss some and kick the others ". I'm sure that AP speaks his mind to players in private, and if they don't pull their weight he'll tell them so...though perhaps not in the same tone to everyone. Naturally we all accept that not everyone plays well every game (noted yesterday was the first game that (some) thought Hammond was... less that brilliant). Obviously AP wouldn't pick someone he didn't think was capable of DAGJFU, but if the player disappoints he won't run to the Echo and blame him publicly, and I'm sure one or two know that know they have to perform better in order to keep their place(s). I think he knows what he's doing and will get them doing it right ..eventually. Sorry for the editing, but some of the points you bring up I believe are very pertinent. I could not have been more impressed with Pardew listening to the Solent fans forum, a very intelligent, articulate guy. This got me thinking of comparisons with previous Saints managers, especially our most successful, LM. To me LM is a horror of a person when given power, bully, ego the size of planet, petty and vendictive. Without doubt he defered to some of the more experienced players, but not a lot. But when you consider who you are working with and what requires to be done, I will take the LM's every day of the week for position as manager. The majority of players have the attention span of a newt and even with a decent IQ, find it to hard to kick into gear. They will come in line far quicker with someone like LM than they will do with Pardew. Sometimes even when you get the tactics wrong. If you are all singing from the same hymn sheet you can still get a success. These exact same reasons are why I would never consider him in a role such as DOF. Where does this leave Pardew? Well without being able to put the fear of god into the players or a genital tazer attachment, he is going to take longer when treating the players like adults and explaining things rationally. It's just going to take longer but I would put money on him getting there eventually. During one section of a contructed and detailed reply during the fans forum, I could easily see your average player asleep or looking out the window. This does leave a weakness that Pardew has in the past which was highlighted by the recent dispute with O'Niel and Reo-Coker at Aston Villa. Compare that with Pardew and Reo-Coker during his time at West Ham. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-421908/Pardew-lost-dressing-room.html I don't really have a problem with Pardew, but he has disappointed to what I expected. Cortese / Liebherr can do very little wrong in my book, so who ever they see fit to manage the team is ok by me and following on from that the manager gets that free pass. I may not necessarily agree with every point, but any decision I happily fall in behind Cortese.

its a massive issue psychologically, for the fans and the team. If this is a massive issue psychologically, the manager is doing something very wrong. I have heard Pardew mention this excuse and I cannot believe someone of his intelligence would actually let this raise it's head. Just consider all the massive psychological issues the team will now face The first issue of being negative The second issue of being bottom of the table The third issue of being in the relegation zone The fourth issue of that massive gap to the play off's The poor little dears stand no chance and by all rights should be gibbering wrecks that would match a gaggle of Dreyfus from a Pink Panther convention.

Pressure is starting to show with Pardew, that is a lame excuse coupled with similar from last Saturday. We are not seeing the best from Pardew as yet, not totally unfamiliar for him. It is taking a very long time for him to get his point across to the players, from what he says he wants, what the players do and his reactions on the touchline. At least the players brought in all look good, hopefully he will turn the corner soon.

I would agree with that. You don't break up the centre halves with pace down the wing, down the middle more than possible with pace. Waigo does not have to get on the end of many, just sufficient to cause panic and this should create space not only for Lambert. The other point is there has to be a certain amount of end product from the wing for it to have any effect. I get the feeling Saga and Lambert will start together, with Saga keeping his position if he merits it.

As long as there are posters trying to rewrite history as you have attempted, I will repeat my response. It was eminently viable financially, with all sorts of add-ons to help make it so, but just not with the two things that Rupert wanted, which were the only two things that the EBC couldn't realistically allow. When Stoneham collapsed, we went ahead with a new stadium with no external additional revenue streams, so yes, I am entirely happy to advocate that we should have proceeded with Stoneham with a 4* Star hotel, a sports and leisure complex, training grounds, fast food outlets, a night club, bowling alley, ice skating rink, sports shop, any or all of those things included. You can quote whatever add-ons you like, but unless they are going to impact the bottom line a sufficient amount, it’s meaningless. The add-ons that would have made that difference were not acceptable to Eastliegh, simples. We declined Stoneham because we could not make it financially viable, we had no where to go and St Mary’s was not even in the offing then. We could easily have gone back to Stoneham and agreed Eastliegh’s terms, but we did not. Do you think we just did not like the location or what? It was a deliberate act in not accepting Stoneham with those conditions because it was not financially viable. The add-ons we required to make it financially viable were not acceptable to Eastliegh and we then could not afford to proceed without them. There is no great conspiracy theory here, just cost.

Why do you have to keep repeating such ******. There was no failure to secure Stoneham. It was not financially viable without modifications which were unacceptable to the council. So you keep trying to advocate we should have gone ahead with it, even though we could not afford it?

You can dress it up as you like, I even hear it is possible to polish it nowadays. But this had more pantomime than business to those watching on, culminating with widow T****y emerging from the London suburbs. Your assertion that you withdrew soon after things did not appear right is naive to the extreme. What you are omitting is that prior to this you spent weeks arguing the point with the Football League regarding their rules. Now as all precedents regarding this matter had already been set, any half intelligent with access to the web could have given you a definitive answer. Someone here was severely lacking or being pointed in the wrong direction. If you had put your hands up then and not continued with the charade with the Football League, fair play and the damage could have been minimal. Maybe you believe it was not a charade? but then words would fail in an apt description for that position. I never took fault with what you tried to do, but I definitely take fault with you for not realising the full implications of your subsequent actions once things had got too far. What did this cost us? At one extreme the possibility of losing Liebherr, at the more practical outcome of being able to keep Surman and DMG. Just for Alpine, who must be giddy from the positions he has taken up with Fry (Looks a good guy, we may have got lucky here :-to-: What's that ****** up to, is he trying to destroy the club :-to-: that's just his job, trying to get the best price for the creditors). The significance of this could well come at the end of the season should we fall short. Then we can look back on this and summarize if those two players could have made a difference.

Never mind the free lunch, he was taking money out of the club when we could least afford it. Every time LM has been to St Mary's he has been invited into the directors box, which I am sure will continue. How can he justify not paying when Liebherr, Cortese, etc all have to pay. I think Liebherr has got this spot on in removing all politics from the situation which plauged us previously. LM won us the FA cup 30 years ago, Liebherr stopped the club from going out of existance this year, not that difficult a choice.

Please, we would have been into administration partII within weeks, if Pinnacle had managed to find the money down the back of the sofa. KK was not coming to Saints, he turned us down from the beginning. So Pinnacle would not be paying any mortgage payments? only to be substituted by the interest on the loans to pay off the mortgage, brilliant. And to add to that, because of the risk that interest would be even higher than our mortgage.

All very true, I am wondering if you could find a more intelligent and articulate speaker in football. I like what I heard from Pardew, really impressive. But one thing that has subsequently triggered, I don't believe this style will be very effective with your average footballer. As seen with the muppets, grabbing them by the throat and suspending them a few inches will have far more effect in getting your point across. We don't play hoofball, but we do employ it more than required and you can see from Pardews reactions, that is not what he wants. Even Poortvliet managed that bit, so I have been surprised Pardew has not driven this home as yet. Not a big issue, just going to take him a little longer but it would explain some of the issues he had at West Ham with the likes of Ferdinand and Reo Coker.

100%. The first penalty was sheer stupidity on behalf of the defender. It would have been a free kick anywhere on the pitch, but because it was inside the box it was a penalty. Yes the ball was (was, not had) going out, Yes Saga milked it, but any defender that stops the opposition forwards motion by putting his leg full across in front of him without touching the ball is going to get penalised, simples!

It is laughable to compare a player like DMG with Saga, one went for £1M in the midst of a fire sale, the other we can't shift for love nor money! Saga has three major problems, he is too slow, he cannot create space for himself and he does not have the vision. Being slow is not the be all and end all, as Teddy Sheringham has demonstrated, but take away the football brain and what are you left with. Saga makes some very intelligent runs, but when you do not have the pace or vision to do anything with those runs, even when you get the ball, there is very little point. Dropping down to League 1, Saga should be mullahing these defences if he was anywhere near good. He looks no different in League 1, CCC or playing for Aalborg. Not to forget this current run of form was an exact replica of his time in Farnce, the reason we got him on loan. When pardew started praising saga to the high heavens, I thought fair enough, work with him and lets see what you can get out of him! Now we have a different problem, who and where best fits into our playing 11? Every position I look, it just adds a negative against him. We shall see from Pardew's early praise, whether he has a change of mind as he did with Wooton.

I am excited by him and that may well be misplaced. Because without someone who is that little bit different, I am finding it really difficult as to how we would get any further than mid table. And please no one mention Saga, high marks for style but little for substance. Yep, he did get the penalty but thanks there belong to the Yeovil defender. Lallana will do it occasionally and Mills or Holmes may step up.

Great to get the win, a comfortable win and we hardly looked threatened. That said, without the penalties it was difficult to see where the opening was coming from. The first was a stone wall penalty, but so stupid. Saga was going no where, but thank you very much. The second I thought was very harsh, eventually after I stopped celebrating. I see a lot of posts questioning that Papa may not be the person we expected, not totally unfair from the performance. But he takes defenders out of their comfort zone and I believe / hope he will make things happen. Seems to be able to take a knock and fears for him acclimatising to this league diminished. I get the feeling that he is going to get a load more knocks as teams see more of him. I am putting a lot of hope in Papa because I find it difficult to see how we are going to open up defences the way we have been playing. Having that greyhound will stop the defence pushing right up and put space between the defenders for others to come into the game. The way the defence and midfield are working, I can see real possibilities if we set up to counter attack teams, but that will not be an option for a lot of home games.

You are right, it does happen elsewhere but does that make it right. The one thing that really would make me throw in the season ticket is seeing the hangers on waiting to get in on a complimentary, moaning that they have to wait and threatening to walk, just because their dad was special to fans. I really like the fact that I don't see ex players come into functions, stuff their pockets on a nod then off to see what else they can cadge. Make all ex-players and personnel pay, then treat them like VIP's once they are in, with the food, drink and the seats. One thing that has really impressed and has been noticeable is that the politics have been taken out of the club, well done Liebherr. For those fans that don't go into the suites during the game, it does not make a blind bit of difference whether an ex-player or what ever is there. The vast majority never get to see that side of things and are either down the road or meeting up in a pup.

Hockey, In the squad photo's, Sporting Director, does not go to away games, missing games through holiday. I hope for ****s sake he has not got his monogram on the scarf, poor bastard will get lynched!

I think that is fair and something I would echo. I don't want to praise up Gillet too much because there is not the evidence to back it up, but there were games early and late on last season where he made a measureable difference, then to be interspersed with injury and mediocrity. My main concern was how Wooton could be seen as the answer initially, but Pards has figured that one out

I think you are correct based upon some of the comments / non comments that never made it into the interview Cortese did with the Echo. My understanding is that Coppell was also approached regarding the sporting directors role. We shall have to wait and see, if we appoint someone in the Karen Brady mode, then I doubt they will have that much influence on the football side, mainly administrative. As Cortese can do / learn most of that himself reasonably quickly, that position is not going to have that great an importance attached to it. So why would there be all the fuss and trouble for basically an adminastrive role, has to be as you describe?

Most forget all the important bits and end up just asking him if he has settled in yet, well done. My biggest gripe with Pardew is that performances from last season just don't come into the equation this season. Bearing in mind the amount of time is a major factor, so excusable. But when I see someone like Wooton being the answer, I can only assume training is conducted at half pace or Wooton is threatening anyone who goes past him with a good hiding. Pardew is finally getting there, but I do believe this delay has cost us for what ever reason. Gillet put in some great performances last season and Pardew should have had enough time by now to have sat down and watched them. As soon as Gillet was injured for our final games, I could see nothing holding the midfield together and the cards were dealt. It was not all roses for Gillet as he did go off the boil a few times, looking nothing like the player he could be. When Gillet was on form in midfield, it was the only time I felt we really had a chance in games. But equally Surman, McG and Schniederlin suffered the same fate. We were talking about Lloyd James and the RB spot being sorted at the end of the season, that is near forgotten now. As for Pardew, he seems to be getting there although luck looked to be on our side for the Charlton result. I was impressed pardew never panicked and threw an unfit Papa and Jaidi into the full match, building up their fitness instead.

The sporting director will happen, nothing to do with Pardew in that respect. Cortese has made it clear that the sporting director will be in charge of footballing matters. Pardew will not be vetting applicants, but Cortese will be definitely having that relationship in mind when appointing the sporting director. That said, the greater success Pardew has the more influence he will bring tp bear. For Cortese it is vital to have the correct person in as SD, with the greatest need to see through the transition from the Championship to the Premier. This is where all the investment will happen and the difficult football decisions have to be made, may even require a change in coach? I am sure he would like him earlier, but being able to get interest from the right type of person to push us into the Premier may be tricky when you are stuck in League 1. It's possible that Pardew could take on this position and get someone else to do the coaching as Redknapp does, an English version of the SD. I don't think that would happen as Pardew sees himself as a coach foremost. I look at managers such as Mick McCarthy, a first choice for getting you out of the CCC but someone I would not rate at keeping you in the Premier. Does Cortese believe he has the skills to make those very important calls? I don't believe so and that is why he feels he needs a very good, experienced SD. Some have noticed already that Cortese's plans and ideas have not been that much different from Lowe (Yes, but just forget the personality gulf for one minute), and I don't see that changing. But Cortese has the unlimited funds to make it work and get through bad luck and mistakes.

Stupid yes, but none of the idiotic things he has done so far has really dented his legend status for me. I suppose as fans we expected the legend to extend into other areas we know that is not so gifted, such is the way of football. Le Tissier was the last of a dying breed, something I doubt we will ever see again at any club, but he was here at Saints. I still bought two of his books, just to keep a signed copy pristine.

A lot of the more measured comments from West Ham and Charlton fans were the same as my initial reaction when Pardew was appointed, not totally impressed. But then looking at the good things he has done I could see a lot of sense in the appointment given a League 1 club. Subsequently a lot of the criticism from these fans look like they could be attached against our performances, but not all looks lost. So far I have been very impressed by his movements into the transfer market, something Burley could never manage, although you do wonder how difficult it is in League 1 with an extensive budget? Even if Pardew turns out to be a dud, I still believe he has done enough in the transfer market to get us out of this mess. I am more than happy to keep going with Pardew, it would not surprise me for him to turn everything around and alleviate all fears I possibly had. Liebherr can do anything he likes within practical reason and his position on the manager will be mine. I am just grateful to still have a club to support.

Based upon this logic, even the most humblest of pongo's would consider the opposite to have more possible value at first light. Just because of the advent of the massive Sky money into the Premier, we are now claiming the reason for all our recent success is down to not having a DOF. You may as well throw in the argument regarding the teams who wear red to give you an even bigger advantage. Over the years of European football, teams that have the European structure have been a lot more successful. But you pick on a limited window at one particular moment in time to justify a point? Where other factors have far greater influence. So this must be an English thing, where even the 11 players on the pitch and the manager are not English? must be the kit man then? Both systems work, but generally the possibility of any one person being able to do all aspects are the exception. Ferguson does not do anywhere near the amount of training he did when he originally arrived, though performed under his directions. It's impossible to perform all tasks to your best ability because of the massive nature of clubs nowadays. We have two classic examples at Saints with Hoddle and WSG, two of the best coaches we have had. But they should not be allowed pocket money to go out in the transfer market alone. The continentals split the tasks of their coaches such that one possible aspect at which they may be poor, does not influence the aspect at which they may excel. If the Dutch clubs of the previous years had an English system as ManU, their fortunes would have easily varied with change of managers. Whereas the system kept on trucking irrespective of personnel. Finances has meant the death knell for smaller leagues now, but previously their system was a clear winner. Both systems work, but it is far more difficult to find one uber manager than spliting the job up to allow each person with their own particular niche to perform as a whole better. Any manager who stays at a club for a good period of time naturally gravitates to other aspects of the job at which he is good, farming out those he does not favour or is poor at. What you end up with at the end of the day is a pick and mix DOF who happens to be in charge of the team. Lose that manager and all of a sudden you need someone to cover all the aspects which the previous manager dealt with well, whereas with the continental system there is less aspects to concern yourself with. For Cortese this is a no brainer!

The most dangerous I have seen Lallana is when he receives or takes the ball into the box and goes at goal, normally on the right. I agree about the position, not sure he has the creative passing yet though. All we need is either teamwork or an individual to unbalance a side and I firmly believe the flood gates will open. I am hoping Papa will do that and unlock all those near do wells that are hiding in the shadows at the present. And it will not matter if they have won there first 6 games on the bounce if someone can provide that spark.