up and away

What has Lowe got to do with this? As soon as Fry was appointed, Lowe no longer had any influence, he was neutered! So your now unstinting affection for Fry is based upon a total misconception!

What I do not fully understand is why the exclusivity payment was not extended to other parties, with provisos that would see the money returned should others seal the deal? What does look amiss is the process where the highest return is selected, no matter how marginal, without any form of credit rating going against the competing parties? From the creditors point of view Fry gambled slightly, which could have reduced their returns, but at the end of the day, alls well that ends well. But this has to be seen as an advantage for the fans at the possible expense of the creditors. Things all turned out far better than imagined for all parties involved, but I cannot really see this going down to Fry's skills, more luck. Fry committed a major faux pas in his stance regarding the Football League ruling over acceptance of the administration rulings. Timing was such this could never be clarified in court and just left a delaying decoy for Pinnacle. Fry should have knocked this possibility on the head by aligning behind the League ruling, leaving the option of any action down to the buyers at a point after completion.

I can only assume that those against 451 blame the system for missing sitters, because it has definitely created the chances. That said one games start of 442 is hardly conclusive, though it did give us a lot of problems early in the season. We are in the position now where we will have to vary things with what the opposition put in front of us. It would be ludicrous to start with 451 when they put 10 men behind the ball, happy to play out for the point. But even with games we expect to win, keeping it tight in the first half is not a bad thing as long as we are creating the chances. MK Dons was the classic example where they were left chasing shadows in midfield and had little left in the tank following. One worrying aspect is that we are leaking a lot of goals for all the dominance we have, so it's not difficult to see the odd game go awry. I just wish Wooton was 6 years younger, such we could change out other players when the need arises and take some of the load from Hammond. Things are not that bad though and things may well develop that even these small issues are ironed out.

Much LOLage. Rupert boasted that his young Saints were going to storm the League. And still some people defend the clown. Well looking back to that period and what we had on the youth side, how far it had developed, there's no way that was about the Premier for that season or many to come. The only real star we did develop was Bridge by converting him to LB.

Idiakez is a perfect example. I remember travelling to the ground and hearing the team news that Idiakez would be playing in central midfield alongside Wright, Viafara, Skacel against Derby in a league match. That was near enough as close as I have come to turning the car around and going home. This was not a slight against Idiakez, but of a midfield that would be non existent against a strong Derby side. Similar with Wooton, put him in in a 5 man midfield sat in front of the back four and he does a job for us under the protection of other players. Put him in that standard role in 442 and I really do not see the point. All players have good and bad points, but if you were to ask fans where the biggest improvement could come for the team with the smallest outlay, I can't see past Wooton. Does this mean I boo Wooton, No. Does this mean I don't accept Pardew playing Wooton, No. There is no pack mentality here, just individuals with a common opinion upon what they see as the weakest link.

Exactly , I think it generally established that this is a place for Saints fans to freely express their opinions on all matters SFC related - if this ever sounds like we are setting ourselves up as somehow knowing more about the game than the players/managers who are well paid to actually do the job than that is a misunderstanding . The Professor is perfectly in order to raise this issue and some of the criticism he's had is rather OTT I'd say . There are a few on here who'd like to turn this forum into some glorified cheer-leading group (no names - no pack drill) but all things considered that might prove to be rather dull for thr rest of us . Some very fair points and we are only arguing over the system being played half the time anyway. But the point I cannot understand is exactly what is wrong with the way we have played up until now? Is it the amount of goals we are scoring? Is it the entertainment value? Just what on this unparalleled run is the problem? I can perfectly understand Pardew changing it for sides that just come to park the bus in front of goal, it no longer makes sense. But the major fear I have for starting with 442 is the manner in which the defence then comes under pressure. I have not seen Wooton play well in this role although perfectly happy to accept he can do a job in the 451. The question I keep looking at, do we have the personel to make 442 work from the beginning? Or do we need another Hammond to go alongside the original to make it work? Because I still have visions of that disorganised mess that was 442 at the start of the season, with basically the same personnel before we changed to 451. It's not about a persons right to question the manager on any subject, it's about changing something we never thought we would achieve this season. Nothing to do with falling in line behind the manager, to me this is just dumb and obliterates everything we went through to get to this position. On a side note, I wonder how Murty would fit into the middle.

You only have to look a few games earlier with near identical personnel to find out why we went to 451. We went to 451 to address specific weaknesses in our team that were costing us, it coincided with a remarkable turn around in our fortunes. But as you say, start off with 442 and shoot your bolt, where do you go from there? Or even go a couple down, you can hardly revert to a defensive formation then. One comment the O's manager made was that tiredness had a big impact on Saints getting back into the game. Well the majority of that must have come from the formation we were playing in the first half. Against the MK Dons they hardly touched the ball in midfield such was our superiority, created so many chances to have won the match in the first half. I would fully agree about changing the system if we failed to create enough chances or players were not missing sitters. I suppose you could say that playing 451, players tend to miss more sitters than any other system! I remember when Burley went to 451 away from home and we suddenly got a draw and a win against someone like Sunderland and Leeds. Never to be seen again along with our chances of automatic promotion. The question that really needs to be asked, is did we have a defensive issue previously? And did the introdution of 451 help to over come that issue, with the option of reverting to 442 when the situation requires?

There is one point that is relevant to 442. if we are going to be playing teams that are only looking to defend and put 8-9 men behind the ball, then I would agree that our standard formation may not be the best to deal with it. Why, because we end up with 433 virtually all the time with possibly the wrong personnel in midfield for what we are trying to achieve. For the personnel we have available, 442 may make a lot more sense in those situations. But this is not what we have been talking about here, it's been about rejecting a system which has brought us unparalleled success. If you look at the issues we had at Orient, starting with 451 looks the better option. it's not as if the system failed us, more individual players. How many open goals do you have to miss before it's not accepted that the problem is down to the system?

A totally pointless post then? Maybe, but if the opposition end up defending most of the time, resulting in us playing 4-3-3 in response, Wooton is not my pick to anchor a 3 man midfield. Be interested to see if Hammond was up to par because of the niggle he was carrying. I have seen nothing to indicate that Wooton will not cost us, but he has been acceptable in a 5 man midfield. It's been no coincidence that he was soon dropped after his performances in our early 442 set ups, along with being first subbed from our 451.

I thought your first offering on this was really dumb, but this takes it to new levels. We had a goal against after a couple of minutes. You think a more attacking line up would have stopped that or a following own goal?

Saved the club from extinction √ Provided funds to bring in players √ Provided a management set up unequalled in this league √ Promised a 5 year plan to get back to the Premier √ Slashed season ticket prices to the lowest on record √ Given us goal scoring and football we thought we would never see again √ Where's my chocolate? X It's often quoted that chocolate gives headaches, well that could easily be the case for the lino with that volume in the stands.

as it seems he doesn't go, I wonder if its personal reasons - or after his 5 minutes of fame he is less interested in supporting saints? Seems very strange after his speeches about how we needed to save the club to support?? I just want the politics and point scoring out of Saints for good. if that can be achieved by all of the old protagonists going or none, I really do not care. But you used to get briefings and rumours every where about who had done what, with others trying to build scaffolding around the molehills to escalate things to K2 proportions. But several in the Crouch group seem to have their noses out of joint, which may be down to the presence of Oldknow. I don't believe Oldknow did anything wrong, but in such a volatile and acrimonious atmosphere previously, he was the single catalyst to blow up in the Crouch gangs face and I believe that may be factored into the situation. What Cortese and Liebherr have done is to take the politics completely out of Saints. No favourtism with anyone that wants to come along and pay given equal treatment. No heroes, no villans, just Saints supporters. Try going over old ground and they are not interested, just nowhere for the spite and bile to grow. Very clever move and evaporating at rate we would never have believed possible. You could easily say Lowe and Wilde are sulking, hiding what ever. If they want to come back and support Saints, I think it's best they leave it until all the dust has settled. I don't believe anyone will be made to feel unwelcome in the future, unless you try to bring the politics back. And very soon with this sort of environment, we will be back to that family club that opposing and home fans felt comfortable in.

What absolute rubbish. What Cortese has shown is that sensible application of limited finances goes miles in League 1. In case you have not noticed, we are the Chelsea of this division for just spending the relatively meagre amount that we have. Selling the family silver? you are a total ostrich. Where were you when the actual family silver was being sold off? Not a ripple then, but when there was little of value remaining you poke your head up, unbelievable! We ****ed up £40M and were left with nothing to show for it but increased debt we would never be able to shake off. Along with expensive salaries we could not crowbar out the door. I stated before last season started that the financial damage was that great, it would take an absolute miracle to get out of. Our only chance was to get big money for one of our prospects. Just selling them on for average money would have done no good whatsoever. The problem was that big unless you made huge inroads into the debt you were just magnifying the problem for later down the line. It was a poor plan that would have been very lucky to come off, but when you are in 6 feet of sheite and sinking fast, a few blades of grass look a viable escape plan.

The likes of you and I were saying it for ages. It aint rocket science. The likes of you had the master plan of winning the lottery. Yes our number came up, but as a plan it ranked along with no plan at all. It took you all of 3 months to figure out that an administrator is just acting as a safeguard for the creditors. Along with those other tossers talking about expanding into a recession with hardly a pot to **** in. Now knocking on doors and wondering why no one wants to listen to their latest theory. Cortese has shown the prudent and effective way of taking the club forward with financial backing. But don't let this fool you he would have been much different with the previous circumstances, without those finances.

I am very comfortable with none of them going, we no longer have the ridiculous politics and petty point scoring going on. Those that do go Like Richards, just keep their head down and support the team, as it should be. Crouch and McMenemy have their noses out of joint. Doesn't Cortese realise what they have done for the club in the past? All to well, I am sure. Lowe and Wilde believe it's best to keep out of things now, another winner. We still have some of the trolls remaining from Leon and Lawrie era, happily carrying the message of who was or was not at an away game. Thankfully those have been neutered as they don't even have the source now from home games, along with the decimation of freebies ruling out their attendance. I wonder why Leon and Lawrie don't go to the away games anymore? Prices should not have gone out the door for those tickets surely? If Carlsburg ever made football club owners, I don't think they would be as good as Liebherr and Cortese.

I have consistently said from the beginning that Pardews signings have been faultless, even when things were not going well. But as you and others have pointed out to me, it really is not that very difficult in League 1 when you consider the minuscule budgets and squads of other teams. I think that is a very important point which I over looked, not taking the shine from Pardew but it will get put into perspective when we get out of League 1. The very fact we were able to buy Hammond from Colchester after the start of the season gives you a clue how this league works, even though they looked a team probably for promotion. Imagine in a higher league where teams will not be content to sell their stars and then things become a bit more tricky.

The Mk Dons were not getting a look in during the first half and we had more than enough opportunity to score a couple. The second half was far more pleasing on the eye and exciting, but one of the reasons for that excitment was because the MK Dons now had far more opportunities. We clearly have a plan B at the present, but if you start off with it you can hardly revert if things are not working out. You just end up throwing caution to the wind and put yourself in a non percentage position. Are memories so short that we cannot remember why we reverted to this formation? It's not as if it's been so bad for us that we have failed to score or had the opportunity to change effectively to influence the out come? It's beeen working brilliantly along with that ability to change. Start off without it and get into the **** because you are leaving too many holes, where exactly are you going to go now? The big problem we have is the defensive aspect of midfield. Hammond is absolutely brilliant but he cannot do it all on his own and I felt was slightly off by his own high standards yesterday. Put Wooton into your standard 442 and we all know what happens, as it has played out so many times before. Put him in a 451 and he actual looks competent. If you want to play 442, find another Hammond to go alongside him and it would easily work. Try it without and I expect you will get away with it most of the times but nowhere near to giving the results we have been getting against teams at the top of their games!

As I said earlier ... we had a plan B and the timing was superb. Completely negating all of Ince's HT talk. One ups man ship of the highest order ..... Incey pwned or whatever the innernet saying is The starting line up and formation had worked in the previous weeks so why change it? The mere fact that when we changed it was a seamless change speaks volumes to the team's pre match build up by the back rrom staff. Everybody knew what was expected of them. Compare that to the last, what 6 managers or so. At HT I stated that despite MK Dons impressive away defensive record I believed we could turn it around and the boys showed they could. The belief in the squad that they could live up to quote Pardews first words "we need a winning mentality"" .. well he seems to be getting the idea across pretty well The very fact we have been winning is even more reason to keep going the way we are. At least we have a seamless option to convert when required. I still feel we would be left exposed starting 442 because of our personnel for midfield, I believe Pardew has got it 100% right. The results and goals being testament to that fact and our domination.

Well he's got the red cheeks, played hockey earlier in his life and if he misheard you, that would be 3 out of 3.

If they stole that, it's no longer safe to bird **** on your windscreen!

I am reading this as a game we should win as long as we do not give them too much room. When you compare form with teams played it definitely looks that way at present. Get the balance wrong and you can see us making very hard work of it, get it right and it could easily turn out to be a stroll in the park.

Some idiot gets gobby and has his head kicked and stamped in because he has had a few too many? You need locking away with the ****s for good measure. We recently had the incident with the Cardiff squadie who was making an arse of himself through drink, only to have his legs kicked from him and end in a coma. That was not so bad because it was not intended or a direct stamp, but to go and do that deliberately puts you outside of the human race and in the zoo with the rest of the animals. I don't mind anyone facing up and tapping off if that's what they want, try to permanently maim, or disfigure and they need towing down the cells on the end of a chain. How many more people do we have to see die from this stupidity before it sinks in.

You mean those dozen or so starts he had with us before going on holiday with Arsenal and England for the rest of the year? What a ******!

Is this a joke? Did you not see his inept, dis-interested/cant be f*cked displays at the start of the season? He doesnt want to be here, so lets move him on. He's been w*nk ever since we gave him a contract. Not strictly true, he was equally w*nk before he came to us. Pardew hyped the guy up and gave him every chance to prove himself, but Pardew has given up on that as a bad job by the looks of things. No one wants the useless w*nk, would not surprise me if he is our highest wage earner.

Replace Wooton with a "defensively minded Hammond type" and I don't believe there will be a team in the league to touch us. Don't want to be too critical of Wooton because he is doing a job for us, but I feel this is where the biggest improvement can come from.