up and away

It's hard to get used to such venom towards a great character in our history, especially if that venom comes mostly from people who are too young to ever have experienced Lawrie's time as manager "in the flesh". I don't know of any ex player who has worked with him, that have a good word to say about him. In fact some would rather take his head off than shake his hand at certain points. All those qualities that made him such a good manager equally made him devisive when not in that position. A double edged sword that is more concerned with the self than the club. After a while of listening to The I's and me's rather than the us and Saints it starts to grate. Just thankful for the quiet over the England involvement.

Pardew would not have been my choice, but he is here now and that is good enough. I am so grateful to Liebherr that even Tony Adams would not have ruffled my feathers. Looking back at the good things Pardew did, there are an big load of positives there. Just hope his experiences with Charlton have not left him as damaged goods. Depending upon what funds he is given, it may take 3 seasons just to get out of League 1, so be it.

Same here - I know a few Addicts fans and they are all top blokes. That site (like Saintsweb) just seems to have a few gob****es. I would agree with that. One thing they are all consistent about though is Pardew being a useless c***. Pardew did have a very bad spell there, just hope he has got it out of his system.

I don't care how crap Pulis is, that deal was the best we have made in many years when you consider everything!

Perhaps wee Gordie knows of what he speaks, since several reports on this board have claimed sightings of Tisdale at a Lyndhurst hotel. But rumours of the wee one still persist, so maybe WGS is being lined up in a DoF role to mentor Tisdale? This would make no lie of the alleged above comments and would enable Strachan a bit more free time with his family, if he so wishes. In that regard he's better off having a role with us, if he's living locally, than becoming involved with a club in some other part of the country... I do know of someone who has contacted the family in regards to a forthcoming planned event, something I doubt he would still take on if considering to be manager. That was still given the thumbs up so I am not so sure about these very strong links. But again I am not sure you can put that down as definitive. If not WGS, the Wise has a lot going for him when you look at the experience, record and get past the emotions.

I'm sorry but how can you say that DMG delievered more than Saga? When Saga put in effort he ran his absolute a** off for the team. DMG used to do sweet FA stand around and moan. DMG's attitude has to be one of the worst I have ever seen for a so called professional footballer and surely if Saga was that bad why would he play in the Champions League and for the Polish national side? It's obvious DMG delivered more than Saga from the goals. I do agree that in general that Saga looks the part but that is where it ends, artistic merit alone. DMG really improved towards te end of the season when he started playing in the hole, elevated himself to a new level IMO. How many chances do you need to give a so called experienced international? If it's brown, smells like ****, looks like ****, it more than likely is ****. No problem with Saga playing in League 1 for us, but what a waste of salary.

Please, time and time again he fails to come up to the mark. DMG was the real loss, Saga is a total waste of resources.

If you had the money, I think it would have been a great move. I know at the time of agreeing for him to come here we did have the money and were in the Premier, as soon as we were in the CCC every attempt should have been made of unburdening ourselves of this cost. Simon Clifford could have been a big boost but absolutely no value for the players beyond 14 or over. In fact I would put 90% of his possible success with players younger than 10. Did not need Clifford, but someone committed to his methods for kids.

There are a lot of these players worth keeping. The problem is that most are too young and need decent players around a selected few. I really feel we will miss DMG the way he was improving towards the end but we will just have to see what comes along.

A lot of what you say does not make sense, irrespective of Lowe we were still saddled with massive debts. The only thing you can say is that everything that made the club look attractive were down to Lowe. But in reality we are so lucky I find it difficult to rate anything that precisely. For someone to come out of the blue for a club not based in London and no previous affiliation is tryly remarkable. Equally for that person to be so rich just further amazes and any other League 1 club that believes this gives them hope is totally deluded. There is no way you can credit any of this to anyone when you consider the whole spectrum of variables and history. One thing I do feel is that Liebherr will be very patient in is his progress forward.

You have to be one of the dumbest ****s on this planet. Yes we are all delighted to be in this current position but this is akin to putting one of your kids forward in a Russian roulette competition. We are all delighted to where we are now but that is more from relief than anything else. What has actually happened at Saints is an equivalent to winning the lottery, something so monumental I can still hardly believe it has happened to us. What will happen to most other clubs would have been at best for the bits of SLH to get broken up and having to rent all the facilities and starting on -25 points with even more of the team moved on then present. That would then be followed by a second trip to administration with the possibility of losing the ground and our future completely. The only thing pathetic and embarrassing is your assumption that just because we have won the lottery, it was an calculated, planned and acceptable risk.

You are reading something into these posts that only exists between your lugs. People are only curious as to how this came about rather than questioning the motives. That has only to be natural when you consider the spectacular turn around in our fortunes. The only story I can think of that comes close to this is Fulham, but they were hardly threatened to go out of existence, a modern day miracle in action.

Unless you are looking for an efficient manner in disposing of currency, investment will not have been the key. I get the feeling that Liebherr has achieved most things in life and this looks an interesting project that fuels the soul rather than the purse. They must have had some close discussions to be able even propose this, all I am is truly grateful. Surprised they let Wotte go without having anyone lined up. Honesty prevailing at the expense of prudency by the looks of it. Interesting times but I expect more upon the lines ofMadejski than others of this wealth.

What £40 million was that then? Was that spent in his 4 months as chairman or during the year and a half under Wilde when he was just a board member? Be very interested to see how he's solely responsible for that.... That £40M consists of the money on deposit, the parachute payment, the revenue possible from player sales and the increase in debt at the end of it all. This is money in excess of all the other revenue coming into the club which your standard CCC club has to run on. I have never stated Crouch is solely responsible for this alone, that majority just goes to Wilde for being the catalyst for everything that followed, even though for but a few short months. But the majority that followed could not have been so without Crouch's acquiescence in some form or his inability to form a working structure. For sheer stupidity Crouch stands alone and all you have to do is look through his statements to unearth gem after gem. I can happily list these out for you even up to the latest with Pinnacle and the the assertion Saints set up was deliberate to avoid the 10 point penalty. If you were to say to me that Crouch was a Saints fan who had lost a lot of money in trying to help I could easily let that lie. But try telling me he deserves a place on the board is ridiculous beyond belief, when you look at his reverse Midas effect.

This does come as a big surprise, but we will appointing someone very soon. Maybe some sympathy for Wotte but what ever Markus wants to do will not get a reaction from me, when you consider our fate without him. When you look at what Coppel and Majedski did together at Reading, you can easily see a similar approach at Saints. Maybe not fast enough for a lot of fans but would make a lot of sense.

Well let me clear that up. The good that he tries to do is dwarfed by the repercussions of these actions. The fact he has put his hand in his pocket to bale us out in our time of need is truly laudable, but this does not come near the £40M that was wasted and a major part facilitated by his involvement. Then again look at the Pinnacle debacle, which you can easily point to as costing us one player from Surman and DMG. Now why anyone with even a hint of business acumen would want him on the board is beyond me. You only have to look at his press to come to the conclusion this is the last place for him. There is no doubt he is a fan and the best place for him is on the terraces, anywhere else and you are getting a severe case of the self inflicteds.

It all depends upon Wotte Wotte has got to work with. We have a far weaker team and little time to correct matters. From everything I have heard Markus is a very cautious person in business and if that extends to Saints we could well be in for a bumpy ride. I get the feeling he will not be looking at promotion this season, more consolidation. If this is the case Wotte really has his work cut out for him with hopefully some strengthening in the January window to prop up what we can get in now?

Here we go again. He would have sold it off as an extended urinal to a Pompey stadium, if that gave the best return and secure the staff as attendents.

Ah!!!!!!!! the true nick has fallen off the fence...what side has he landed!!..the Lowe side Even a total idiot would have trouble linking this to Lowe, just basic common sense. Once again you truly excelled yourself. Lowe does not come into the equation, these previous idiotic acts of financial management stand alone!

We'd still have Lowe and been relegated and have had EVEN less supporters thereafter. The only difference between now and that analogy is minus 10 points to be fair. This idea that its the fans fault is irrelevant. Supporters support for different reasons. I suspect 500 actually thought Wotte and JP were not worth supporting given the entertainment and lack of fight they provided let alone what they thought of Lowe. Nah. If your teams led by people who cause disunity, make crass financial decisions and buy mediocre kids and Dutch fantasists, the reality is 500+ fans will sadly not want to watch the pain. And guess what... they have a choice. They're still red and white in my eyes though. Its called reality. On that basis we can take that attitude into this season, because it looks we have even less to look forward to than in previous seasons. Unless your decision making process revolves around Lowe. We were going into administration unless the fans supported the club, that financial calamity had already been created before the season started, it was just a question of when. We could have even failed to have completed our games for that season, that really would have made things interesting. The only slim chance we had was the fans getting behind the club, many chose not to and the rot is now firmly set in. So you can hardly blame fans who can no longer be bothered in the future! WE had games with very high attendance when the prices were cheap, fans were only coming when they felt it was value for money. That basis will not take you to the next leve, only at best root you where you are. If you decided relegation based upon support, Saints and Birmingham would have been nailed on from the start, really poor in comparison to other teams.

On any scale of significance, I can hardly see this getting to a full digit apart from Saints fans with a penchant for being abducted. I said many times previously that I could not understand why Barclay's had not pulled the plug on Saints a lot earlier. The club may well have had the banks backing up to a certain point, but it was never permanent because of the perilous position we had put ourselves in. We knew from Hone and Delieu that we had to start reeling in money fast from players to have any chance. We then add to that burden then find we can't get rid of them or even give them away, coupled with the worst financial down turn in living memory and some are wondering why the sudden turn around. As for proof of funds that is not really a major issue, many can do so. The real trick is trying to determine whether they are prepared to splash that cash. When you consider what Pinnacle were up against, it is not surprising to see them get elevated to B of E status. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Fry's one major **** up in all of this is putting out the notion that the 10 point penalty is appealable or having any valued merit. Maybe it does not get Pinnacle off the hook completely but sufficient there will be little come back. I don't know how the Swiss will work out, but when you look at everyone else lined up to **** us over deliberately or via an act of kindness, we really have no option.

There has been a lot of confusion created, but I cannot say you can put that down to the FL.

And how do they do that? By insisting upon having a CVA representing 75% of the net debt from creditors. Most clubs gain an advantage from administration, that's how come the rules were introduced along with the penalties. You can point to imbalances when you consider the debt bypassed by varying clubs in respect to the penalties and wonder if the punishment fits the magnitude. But the FL has a simple set of workable rules on this with the 75% and if any change were to happen on this, there have been several previous high profile cases where this would have happened. You can understand why Barry Hearn believes the whole thing stinks for clubs that struggle away on prudent management. But then again those clubs don't have the immediate prospect of being removed from any valued form of football.

You have a point, but I would guess the true figure to lie between Jackson and Pinnacle, but my guess would be at best £10M. Get the value down too low and Aviva will be thinking it being far better to lay the stadium barren until the council will be begging you to redevelop. Without at least access to the stadium, everything is up in smoke. Then everything else falls in line until you get up to 75% of creditors acceptance and you are off and running. Barclays have a lot of their debt secured against assets and that will be another factor for determining the recovery rate. You can easily see because of the nature and importance of these two creditors that scrap value alone will not be good enough and you may have to find some serious middle ground. Fry's job is to gauge things and go with the option that gives the best practical return. The only thing I would say is that football clubs are very specialised even for Fry and I cannot believe he has performed in this sector previously, or we would not have got that monumental blunder of the position on the points appeal. I can't believe a professional made such a stupid error. They got Krasner in at Bournemouth to guide them through, why oh why did they not do it here? The SFC point is a red herring, just accept the fact there will be a -10 start with more if a CVA for SLH cannot be found and proceed on that basis. I don't know exactly how the exclusivity period worked, but if it just stopped anyone else from buying the club during that 21 days with everyone else still allowed full access / discussion, that would have made sense in our position.

Yes, quite. It's suprising how many people seem unable to read it correctly. Just why are some trying to turn this on it's arse for something relatively straight forward. There was clarification from the FL that SFC should not escape the administration regulations based upon SLH being deemed a holding company and not the football club. The FL defined SLH for the purposes of their administration rules to represent the football club. That means any CVA has to be on the basis of SLH not SFC. So any further penalties will be due to any infringement of the FL administration rules as per it has been for any other club. And please no more bollix about this cannot apply because SLH does not exist. The FL will have some questions regarding the finance but only inline with it's rules. If Fialka was borrowing this money from any high street lender there would be zero issue, even if he could not afford a 2nd class stamp. What could be an issue is the money being provided from a source already involved in football or from an illegal operation. Why anyone would want to quote Matty on this subject is beyond me, it's not as if his preparatory work here has been shown to be anything of a guiding light. What next, Paul Gascoigne being referenced on string theory? Then if anyone wanted any conclusive proof just look over all the inconsistencies coming out from Lynham and this points to one thing only, finance. Then this continued charade regarding the FL being the nasty bullies, why would anyone who has been shafted to such a degree by the FL, not clearly state exactly what any other specific issues with the FL are? Obviously under a NDA forced upon them by the FL!