up and away

You make a good point Alpine. Now that the boot is on the other foot they don't like it. Bless. What a pair of absolute idiots. If we eventually (fingers crossed) end up in the position everyone seems to believe we are heading, no rational person will be unhappy, even if the investment is very modest. What most were not prepared to do was play Russian roulette with something they valued so highly. One day an ex Premier club will go to the wall and we put ourselves so close we could almost taste it. Knowing some of the details of the other bid it would hardly surprise me if they had more drop outs when money was actually required. Once we put ourselves into the position of administration there was no way back and no way of telling if we would find a way out. People have survived falls from great heights without the aid of a parachute, but you have no way of telling until it is all over and no sane person would view that as a viable option. There are some people who are never happy unless they can continually whinge, just the nature of the beast. I fully expect both of you to be on full flow before the season has finished for one reason or another.

I got it but our prospective new owner might not see it that way. I suppose if you bother to read his comments on the new owners you would easily come to the conclusion this is aimed elsewhere. I have a lot of respect for Nick over the way he has commented and behaved in recent years. Always just wanting the best for Saints irrespective of personalities or red herrings. His efforts recently in trying to raise money without the need to be bitter has been exemplary. You can never please some fans what ever he says, but I can't think of anyone that comes close to him in the way he has interpreted events over the last couple of years. I know his position is very similar to mine in that he is just relieved in the hope that we will be eventually saved and over the moon at even any modest investment in the playing side that comes our way. That does not mean that many others will be moaning if we start to struggle or that gates will drop even further. His message is very simple, it's our club and if we do not do bother supporting it, no one else will.

You really are one dumb ****. So what next, russian roulette to make up for the short fall in your rates? It all worked out ok so that was an excellent option!

Thats what I was thinking how can he call us cheats when Manure are £700m in debt (unless i am mistaken) Pompey are £100m and many other top clubs are in just as much debt If we have been cheating then we are some of the worst cheats in the world, because you usually cheat to gain an advantage as far as I can tell our 'cheating' has left us in league 1 on -10, we have had the threat of ceasing to exist and played half of last season with out our supposedly top players and replaced a decent manager with the cheaper option. So where in that did we cheat to better ourselves? If anyone is to be punished it is the banks for lending so much. Hearn does have a small point but has failed to take into account the practical difficulties of what he is implying. You can easily argue the case that when we continued all that spending the previous season, we managed to stay up by virtually placing ourselves into administration for the following season. We did not know that completely until we found out we could not sell on the high earners or get enough of them off our books. It was not cheating but you can easily see how it could be viewed as such by prudently run clubs who live within their means. Just like the fly by night cowboys who go into administration to lose debt, then restart directly on another set of gullible public. The Football League have got this as near as damn it to a practical solution. Should we have avoided the -10 then that would be very valid. I do believe there should be a percentage limit you may be allowed to go into debt, based upon your assets and revenue. Not sure how workable this is but it would cover all the clubs and allow for the situation Hearn is trying to address.

I expect we will have limited resources and someone like BWP will only be stopping actual talent at a greater cost from developing. Euell really has not done enough regularly to justify any sort of salary. The talent we will more than likely look for from within, those more adept at kicking the opposition will be required from outside. KD and JPS are very good shouts and I hope they are here next season. Be interested to see if Wotte stays? If money is tight, I imagine he may be given until January?

Needs to put in perspective, because after Lowe's second stint of carnage we had absolutely no money and were out on our feet. The alternative to Pinnacle's "little" money would appear to be no Club. Perspective? That fate was sealed way before. Why not revert to Lowe's interference with team matters? Forcing players out to get them off the wage bill or not playing them if they insisted upon bonuses? Remember muppet! I really doubt Pinnacle will have 1/20th of the money for the team that we ****ed against the wall over the last few years, but beggars cannot be choosers. It's their money and what little of it they throw in our direction will be truly appreciated.

This is fantastic news but does not imply any change on the pitch unless they are prepared to throw wonga at the club. Just great to still have a club to support! I knew something positive was about to happen as soon as the administrator asked the staff to hold off on the wages, but expected Paddy to turn up at the door. Hopefully with full creditor agreement we only have the -10 to contend with, far better than expected.

They are talking about staff here and not players. Although the staff may not view it as such, this is about the best bit of news we have had for a while!

How much has Crouch actually given? because from what I am hearing it does not come near the total required. Still generous I accept but the story we keep getting painted by the leaks is nothing like the real thing. Take into account the damage Crouch has caused and he does not even wipe out a fraction of what he has caused. Hone got directors to sign off upon player acquisitions because the money was not there. Something Crouch strongly denied when he got rid of them. It's ok saying you were against the signing of Euell, but when you agree to it in the end followed by further far higher expenditure, what exactly is the point? We then have the infamous "turkey required to vote for christmas" on the back of a £2M note. Certainly got the practical aspects to negotiation down to a fine point. Crouch is an idiot, doing more damage than good from what he has given. Have you even bought an ECHO, let alone a ticket at St Mary's?

But your accurate analysis of his skill set is precisely why he is only going to get a job at the likes of Sunderland. He's a great manager at a certain level, but I wouldn't give him a job to get, say, Spurs, Villa, Man City or Everton into Champions League contention or to acheive Europa qualification as a minimum requirement (as it would be at those clubs) season in season out. Sunderland is likely, the only think stopping him would be the "I'm going to take a little break" routine. Newcastle or Boro would also be very good shouts, especially if both persevere with Shearer/Southgate and it doesn't start too well as I am sure it won't for them both. I expect WGS to be back in management at the first big job of the autumn, rather than walk into one straightaway. My shout for Celtic? Steve Bruce. I don't argue that Sunderland would offer him the job or the rest of your analysis, I do doubt he would accept it. Time changes people, but that would be my guess from what I knew previously. Comparatively to then and now, I would put them behind where Saints were, certainly not a great deal better. Then the small problem of being able to trick any decent player up to Sunderland? You may as well stick your bare arse out the window and hand everyone a hazel switch.

He can say what he likes about Lowe or give it the Billy buffalo bollicks as much as he likes, if he actually ends up doing any good. But any thing that comes out of this pikeys mouth has all been **** and vinegar in the past, I bet he's still waiting for Fulthorpe!

I would really doubt it. Why, because he left Saints at such a time when we were way ahead of where Sunderland are now, he just did not see the rewards or possibilities at that end. I have spoken to him a fair bit in the past but you don't get anything out of him. The snippet's come from his reactions to various news or circumstances. I firmly got the belief that his sacking at Coventry left a scar that has not healed completely to this day. What he is like know I have little idea but I find it difficult to believe he would go to Sunderland just for the money. I get the feeling there is only so far he can take a team with his skill sets which are primarily fitness and attitude related. These things tend to run their course after a while, the genie gets let out the bottle and he can't put it back in. It would come as no surprise if he became manager of Scotland or possibly one of the bigger Premier teams just out of the top 4. Failing that, it would not surprise me if he turned up at Newcastle.

We have more than enough from recent times to be able to judge him, that is no where near an issue. What we have not had is a freefall of this magnitude before. Making the drop by plane would have been preferable, parachute at a pinch, but if you only have a hankie, you still cling on for all you are worth. I have no issue with the guy no matter how cringeworthy things have got in the past, it's not as if he is blocking Gavyn Davies or Salz from getting to the front!

Hmm that's not my experience. I remember an outrageous amount being quoted to remediate ex gasworks land just to provide temporary hospital carparking! It does bite into the profit margins, but no show stopper. In the present climate I doubt few but the very hardy would consider it, but the price would reflect this? Very surprised that car parking requires remediation, surfacing possibly? The reason I say that, I remember one car park that has changed hands on contaminated land (Wales) without any requirement for remediation?

Neither IMHO. He was simply stating the bleedin' obvious. Are you saying the Football League authorities aren't/weren't clever enough to work that one out for themselves? Since when has it been de rigeur for a time machine or intuition Nostradamus would bow before, to qualify for the "bleeding obvious"? It's one thing being the loveable old fluckwit, another when it just opens to change feet!

It is offensive that you even have to ask. Crouch has bailed us out, but you are more worried about him lording it over us than you are grateful that he has put his hand in his pocket, again, for the club. A bit more than your man Rupert has done, isn't it. I don't think I'm the bitter and twisted one. Crouch has done exactly what? Got the £2M out on the end of the fishing line again? When you make an offer such as paying this months wages on the proviso that any buyer repays you, there is absolutely NO WAY the administrator can accept such an offer, because he cannot guarantee the conditions. So just as with the £2M offer to Lowe and Wilde, impose conditions that make any offer impossible to accept and this 3 card trick is becoming all to familiar. Crouch along with several others have been been generous with donations to the club, but I can't really blame any of the others for our current financial mess, Crouch is in there up to his pikey neck. If Crouch were to do something truly altruistic, then he deserves justified congratulations, but he does not have enough in the bank to cover the damage he has helped cause. To all those who are now praising Crouch and his benevolance, would it not have been better to use that money whilst the club was still afloat? If you are not truly bitter and twisted, you would accept what ever is best for Saints irrespective of who is chairman or providing funds. You could never make that small step, others put the club first above all.

It's not getting over Lowe that is the issue, more trolls like yourself. I dont know Nineteen Canteen but would not mind betting he will still be going to St Mary's, even if that idiot Crouch is chairman. It's one thing having an opinion, it's completely another to remove your financial support from the club. This is a disease you and your ilk infected the club with, so don't start bleating because of the extent it has spread.

can their avarice be overcome? I'll go out on a limb here. If they get paid what they are owed, I would reckon that should do it. If you are offering less than what can be obtained from breaking everything up and selling it off bit by bit, guess which option they will go for? When you put yourself into these positions, you can only hope luck is on your side, because you have very limited leverage. Try playing hard ball with these types and you will soon find that ball as lot 49, with no reserve.

Complete and utter tosh. This is a business in the entertainment industry. If the customers refuse to buy into the product because they perceive it not to be good value for their expenditure, then it is the fault of the management. A customer is never at fault for the collapse of a business and has no responsibility for keeping it afloat. I know that some do not like this customer analogy, preferring to think of themselves as uber fans, but that is a hardcore which in itself is not large enough to keep us viable. That's fair enough, but I don't want to keep hearing from these same bleating thwats about where Woolworths have gone to and how could they have let this happen. Any fan knows in their own small way what they have done to support Saints. Others took a different road because of politics and bile. Well that bile gets to eating away on an empty stomach because it is never their fault, always someone else's.

Amen. I thought people like him hated "I told you so" comments ? So what do you say to those fans who wanted administration? WELL DONE! What do you say to those fans who would not attend St Mary's but gladly gave their money to other clubs? WELL DONE! Well I know clearly what to say to those same fans who are now complaining about the mess we are in. You share an equal responsibility to the position we now find ourselves in. Shut your mouth, grow a pair and stop whining!

MJ actually put a written bid on the table, ok it may not have been enough, but my understanding was that they had done enough to go forward.Pinnacles involvement confused matters and so PERHAPS MJ 's backers lost their patience and walked. MJ was only the spokeman or frontman the same as Lynham is for Pinnacle. They have both put written bids on the table. The problem arises when hard cash has to be placed upon the table. You can get 10 people together who will promise £1M each for an equal share of the club. But before that money has to move from the hand to the table, those people will be wanting to know how much control they get for that equal share. Impossible to satisy all, you end up with just a fraction remaining. With one or possibly two you stand a chance. Even when you get one major backer with several smaller it always leaves the smaller open to being squeezed out once the money is in place. Everyone has clearly witnessed uberfan Crouch and his demands for his money. When push comes to shove you will not be getting a lot of takers in that environment. People who have made this sort of money have one common denomination, a heavy liking for power and control. It's a circle that's impossible to square because of the very nature of the beast. Crouch would gladly give aways his shares for the benefit of Saints, but what he failed to add was the proviso's. - not that thwat, or the one in the dicky bow and the one with the limp looks iffy, irrespective of what is best for Saints.

We are already in the position of slipping to the worst place possible. At least Pompey has time on their hands before it goes completely pear shaped. They will lose a lot of high earners next season, probably replaced by CCC levels in skill and salary. So they go down next season with the PL money + the parachutes to come and maybe their own ground? Most of that money will be cosumed by debt but they do have some chance. We are waiting to see if we can stay in the Football League or begging to be allowed into the Blue Square Premier with little chance. If you think Pompey were stupid, taking scale into consideration we are the absolute dumbo's for our finacial policy in the CCC.

I would not have a problem with this position, if you had done everything possible in the small way a supporter does to avoid this happening. You decided not to support the club whilst Lowe was there and are now unhappy with what remains. You and others decided this was the best action, but have suddenly realised the results of your actions and don't like it. Well wise up and grow a pair.

They have proved they have certain finances available to them, now they have to commit to using those finances. With one single fund source it is straightforward, with more you have to have the commitment and agreement of all, for something that is not neccessarirly cast in stone and been made up as they go along. It would not surprise me that both main bids go the same way, unless you have a very tight knit group of investors. We have seen from the details of the Bournemouth fiasco that it was more of a sales job with little hard and fast up front. It's one thing saying it's a good idea, it's another actually handing over cash for a non controlling interest to someone who is not family. The only question we need to know is if the back up option has the possibility of at best, keeping us out of the Blue Square Premier? From the feed back I have heard, even that cushion will be denied us if we fall from the Football League.

:)We did at virtually the same time. But along came the financial pikeys who quickly got the squad and wages up immediately.