up and away

So Crouch opposed the Euell signing? Then 3 months later goes and approves greater expenditure in salary for Andrew Davies. Don't you see a little problem here? If Crouch was that worried about the salaries, how on earth can he of approved signing Davies permanently? The truth would be closer that he did not rate Euell, which is fair enough. But there is absolutely no sign that Crouch was serious about getting any costs under control. Just explain to me what Crouch meant when he made this statement subsequent to being removed from the football board. "I am gutted it has come to this. I have spent the last nine months working tirelessly for this club representing the fans, but I have been a thorn in their (the executive board members) side. "I opposed the mass exodus of staff at the club, we are losing too many goodpeople. I knew it would be a real battle and it has been. I am devastated. I have spent the last 18 months battling these people." What Crouch did was to create a a poisoned atmosphere where all parties were canceled out and no one left with influence. Anyone with just limited intelligence could see the need to keep Wilde on side, however he fooked up. Just go back through the Echo and look at all the stupidity he has come out with. The blabbing regarding the supposed Paul Allen. The statement that Saints were not in financial difficulties. The inference that the early Walcott settlement was not true. The trick with the fishing rod and £2M note attached. The sitting on his hands waiting for Fulthorpe.

Andrew Davies signing was made permanent under Crouch. How we managed to get rid of Davies is a major surprise, we could even still be paying for him now. What ever good Crouch has done, you can multiply that 10 fold for the damage he created.

And those that know me well know I do not heap praise on Leon easily As someone who has been openly critical of Crouch in the past, I can only echo these comments. His comments on 5 Live yesterday were ill-informed at best, but it's clear that he simply can't talk to public audiences or the press very well and in hindsight I suspect he wishes he declined the offer of an interview. Without him, we wouldn't even be having the discussion about whether we were going to be able to sell enough tickets for tomorrow's game. There would be no game. I don't think you will find anyone to argue that point. But without a shadow of doubt if Crouch had not assisted at all, we would not be needing anything now! It has been very simple from the beginning, our best chance was for all parties to work together, something Crouch could not do if his life (or Saints) depended upon it. I will still donate as Saints future depends upon it, but I don't want this dumb pikey advising to help clear up the mess he had a major part in creating. It's OK saying he was against signing Euell, when months later and knowing how bad things actually were, he signed Andrew Davies. Plenty of talk about what he actually would have done, but all the action lies elsewhere.

Now there's true colours for you. Bye - don't come back - we don't need your kind of 'support' now. I admit I was not fearful of admin to clear the club of the vermin, but now is the time to REALLY support the club. If you're really a supporter that is - are you? With idiots like you I really cannot put up a strong case as why it does not deserve to be us. In case you had not noticed, the horse has bolted. This has all been obvious from day 1, but only now we get everyone trying to help. Just think how effective this could have been a season earlier. At least NC has a season ticket and supported the club.

You can point at the little good that Crouch did, but the negative aspect completely dwarfs that down to infinitesimal. Since Leon stuck his oar, he was part of the responsibility of wasting close on to £40M of the clubs money and one of the prime reasons we are in administration. So when you look at what Crouch divvied up, just have a look on the other end of the scales for a comparison. It was all the execs fault. So how do you explain these comments from Crouch when he was removed from the football board? This pikey was up to his neck in it from the beginning. "I am gutted it has come to this. I have spent the last nine months working tirelessly for this club representing the fans, but I have been a thorn in their (the executive board members) side. "I opposed the mass exodus of staff at the club, we are losing too many good people. I knew it would be a real battle and it has been. I am devastated. I have spent the last 18 months battling these people."

Has someone removed every sense physically available to you? Given the economic climate and our failure to even get rid of enough high earners, we were doomed from the beginning.

I will not argue the point that this decision is fair, but it is not correct. They had ample opportunity to change the regulations since Derby and decided to do nothing about it. The Football League were sounded out prior to the March deadline and confirmed there would be no 10 point deduction? Now I can readily understand it is not in the spirit of the regulations, but they chose not to close that loop hole. What they did do was to punish Luton to the hilt for something that was none of their fault. the spirit of the regulations meaning absolute zilch there. Double standards here and I cannot see any reason why we cannot back date administration to pre March, thus avoiding the 10 point penalty next season. The Football league basically bypassed that option when they confirmed the Football club would not be deducted points.

I cannot understand the idiots on here having a pop at Illingsworth. All he has ever said is that if we do not support our club, no one else will and the consequences that could entail. There was no endorsement of Lowe or Wilde, just the practical application of what is best for Saints. And even now many cannot figure out how right he was and are still arguing the toss as the possibility of our demise looms nearer.

Lowey and his team of Luvvies shhiiite stirring....Let him go prancer. And up pops Couch's rear gunner. Not even a mention of Lowe and you are wiping his arse, can't have anything sticking to Leon, he's a real fan.

No financial irregularities, but financial difficulties will get the job done. If we fail to fufill our fixtures for this season, Blue Square here we come, something even Crouch has just realised. I don't think that will happen, but it is a distinct possibility.

FORMER Saints chairman Leon Crouch has issued a stark warning to fans about the future of the club. The Lymington-based businessman, pictured, said Saints are in real risk of folding before the end of the season. It seems that it takes a very long time for anything to trickle down to Lymington but it looks like it eventually made it. Leon Crouch We are not in a desperate situation. We can last a year or even further without investment. A lot of people have been talking Southampton Football Club down and they should not be. It is a great club and we are not in the position people are trying to portray in the media. Those criticisms are unfair. It was a difficult situation with SISU. We are not rock bottom or in a situation where we have to take a proposal from organisations who want to buy us on the cheap. Saints have knocked back reports that they have approached Arsenal to try and to reach an early cash settlement on the Theo Walcott deal in order to head off administration. The club have strongly denied suggestions in a national newspaper that they have exceeded their overdraft limit and are under pressure from the bank. Chairman Leon Crouch said: "There is a lot we would like to say in response to this story but unfortunately we have been placed in an offer period by the Stock Exchange who insist that we remain in it and whose rules therefore prevent us from talking about financial matters. We have no intention of selling our best players. There is a new board now and we will draw a line under everything that has gone before. As far as I am concerned we are going forward now with a good squad of players. We have assets and the reduced number of executives means we now have a leaner and meaner board. All clubs in the Championship need money and we are in the same situation but we have better facilities than a lot of the clubs in this league, we have a good squad of players and we have assets. We are definitely not in a position like Coventry who were rock bottom.

I would have though anyone who heard David Armstrong late on after the Palace game will now be left in little doubt. From those comments I can see very good reasons why he has never entered management.

I think we need to move on from Lowe. He is history, consigned to the dustbin marked failure. Lets concentrate on the next few weeks and hopefully a rosy long term future. This is one of the main factors why some fans will not donate to the administrator. When you have some running round trying to find donations and urging others to do so, when not so long ago there actions were the complete opposite just to get rid of Lowe. This is not about a love for Saints, more the opposite. You can just imagine how history would be changed with the judgement of Solomon. When the ruling to split the child in two and give each protagnonist a half, Crouch would have remained silent.

After looking at all the scenario's I feel that's just as bad as the other idiots who were refusing to go to St Mary's, but happily fund away teams. If you want this club to have any chance of existing we have to do this, keep the club alive until the take over can happen and we should be able to escape from this without a points deduction. If the take over does not happen we are shafted anyway! What really galls me is that two faced crunt Crouch asking us all to dig deep. When he was playing billy buffalo bollax and waving his imaginary £2M around shouting " here's mine, show me yours", which suddenly disappears into his pockets on the end of a piece of string. There is no need to be in this financial position and Crouch was up to his pikey neck in putting us here, but not donating will only make things worse.

Which critical dead line are you referring to? From Barclay's point of view the closure of the loan window may well have been their line in the sand? Still too many high earners with little chance of getting rid of them until the start of next season with no revenue coming in? Looking back at previous League precedents and taking into account that Saints actually obtained FL clarification, I do not believe we will suffer a 10 points deduction unless the actual football club goes into administration. If the FL were to try and deduct Saints points without the club going into administration, they would be liable to redress in the courts or possibly the option of having that 10 point deduction applied to this season. You can also look at the failure to sell off our young stars to avoid this predicament, but in reality it would only be a delay with the type of money being offered. The process we were under with Lowe was a long term plan as soon as we failed to get fees / remove wages of the high earners last summer. If someone buys the club now, all those players will be available and assets for either the short or long term. If we can find a buyer for this club things look far better than what the imagination has been throwing at us. We would start next season without any points deductions, all players in the squad available for selection the remainder of this season and the ability to get decent fees for those players at a later date. The only down side is that we will still have too many high earners on the books and looking odds on for relegation.

I don't argue that Lee is a good bloke and take the point regarding what people wanted to believe. You can blame TomM for initiating it, but believing it was stupendous act of gullibility. I kept repeating at the time to go and look at the evidence the Echo had to the opposite, something Richard Chorley never argued with.

I never have, accept for in the apocryphal land of internet/tabloid nonsense. Any solicitor who does that is either a small-time shyster or an idiot. Begbies Traynor are a respected insolvency practice, not a two-bit bunch of rip-off merchants. Yes, they, along with lawyers, might be seen to be expensive but their charges will be fair and proper. "might be seen to be expensive but their charges will be fair and proper" This has to be the understatement of the year! In case you are unaware, just look at this thread for an indication of charges made by administrators http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=12007 Just for you simple filing clerk is £110/ hour and that does not even mean it has to be a complete hour. So what is this unique ability the administrator has? They don't go looking for buyers, that they leave to others and charge accordingly, all they do is is take their hugely inflated slice of what remaining cake there is and divide what ever is left between the creditors. There are licences to print money and this one has to be near the top of the tree. And if you think solicitors charges are just Internet myth, go and look for yourself and you will find them readily. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/article1143657.ece These solicitors are mere amateurs in comparison to charges made by administrators.

I really wish we could get some clarity on these funds and the scenario's involved with how they will pan out. One point that makes me very suspicious is that they have asked for them to be addressed to Dave Jones, but we all know that is in effect the Administrator. I can see both pros and cons for these donations but would like to know none of these monies will end up in the administrators pockets, either directly or indirectly. And equally with ticket revenue, is that exempt from the administrator's pocket either in/directly? Everyone seems to be commenting on what a decent person this Mr Fry is, but my experiences have shown them to be nothing but the opposite. We have all heard of actual cases where clients have called their solicitor to thank them, only to be subsequently charged £50 for the response. Well notch that up a turn or two and you get to administrators, with charges that make solicitors shake their heads.

Sounds almost attractive when you phrase it like that! It's just what that clean slate actually means that things take a different perspective. That clean slate can easily mean having the football club go into administration so you can get rid of all the remaining high earners to stand a chance of being able to exist next season. That would mean a massive points deduction for administration and not agreeing the CVA's. Alternatively you keep all those remaining high earners but can now no longer afford to buy back Staplewood. All that will do is set up a slow lingering waste into another round of administration. What will happen to the stadium? If Aviva have any sense there will be no long term deal unless you go back to our previous interest rates. More than likely we will be renting it back at similar rates to what we were paying previously, but this time with little chance of holding back any repayments. If we lose the stadium for just a short period of time, that's our bed made and ground sharing with Eastleigh. Crouch is rightly desperate for the football club not to go into administration so it can be bought as a going concern. But he cannot afford the £0.5M to keep us trading up to the point this can happen, so there's very little in that pot to pull everything out of the fire. I cannot see anyone coming in until administration has laid bare the operating costs, but equally laid bare the facilities. There are those like Crouch who do not want that to happen, but they just don't have the cash to make it so. This is no investment, just a bottomless pit waiting to be fed with coin of the realm. If any real investor was involved be very afraid.

This post sums everything up for me in a nut shell. I never really had a problem with this stance previously, although wondering who those highlighted actually supported. What I do find difficult to take is these same "fans" saying everything we should be doing to save our club! It's akin to turning up with a bucket of water to douse the dying embers.

This is one of those rare times where I am in complete agreement with you and I feel we have been let down by Richards and Crouch regarding these impassioned pleas that bypass the head. What would be the sensible action is to donate these monies to an independent body that can decide what good can actually be done with these donations. Monies can be paid directly to areas that are vital for the football club to survive, without having to go through the administrators. Because of the timing and organisation required to do this, there appears only one solution, The Saints Trust. The remit of any such committee has to be carefully worded as the administrator could fully expect certain of these funds to substitute what comes from the gate receipts. I would even go to the extent of them soliciting advice from Lowe regarding the exact mechanism, of all those out there could give the best advice in the shortest time. I can see you are convulsing on the floor now, so will go no further along that road. The other point the Trust should address is Southampton City Council in whatever way possible. The obvious would be over the purchase of the stadium but realistically this may have a very limited return. The one area where the council can really help without costing the ratepayers a penny is regarding planning permission. If the stadium and training ground cannot be given planning permission other than for the purpose of football, this will deter developers trying to acquire the assets and give leverage over Aviva and Barclays for agreement in the future. We actually have issues now where we desperately need a body such as the trust, I just hope they take up the cudgel.

From what I can gather from generalisations rather than specifics is that 80-90% of these are blaggers and Walter Mittys. Some who actually have the money and have looked at us before and two groups who have had involvement with Saints previously. I can't see those with money doing anything until they actually know which division we will be in next year and equally with what point deduction. Either way it will be post administration before they will move. It is perfectly clear from Crouch that they cannot afford to move until administration wipes out the debts and contracts to give his money any chance of doing anything. If he can't afford the £0.5M to keep us afloat and buy out the club, there does not seem very much coming from that route! This is why I cannot see anyone moving until we have been through administration.

The one thing that you have failed to factor in is that we were still lumbered with high earners haemoraging the clubs finances. If no one wants them, we are stuck with them and the only possible way of removing them is to go into administration. Lowe did his damnest to get rid of them in any way possible, but they stuck in there like ticks on a cow's arse. This is why Crouch cannot afford to do anything at this moment. Our debts and contract fee liabilities have to be raised to the ground so someone can actually come in and survive on our income. Some of the feed back I am getting about the enquiries to the administrator give very little hope. Mainly idiots dreaming or trying to play the part, your Dan Williams type and the Crouch's some where inbetween. Our most realistic chance of saving comes from someone like Crouch and the pleas for money now are starting to make sense. There are no fairy godmothers out there coming to save us, all we have is the likes of Crouch coming in to buy up what peices are left after administration. His big problem is that there has to be something left for him to pick up and without that money coming in for the remaining games being his big worry. Well the club is effectively no longer a plc, Lowe has gone and all those deliberately boycotting can now donate all those savings to their hearts content.

Ump I will accept that, but as you know not all are as understanding. If the club sold those 2 and not able to say why as other decisions then the fans would be in uproar. I have said this from the point we could not sell of our high earners and were still stuck with the wages. This was no longer possible with a short fix, it had to be a long term solution with the youth products keeping us afloat. If you could not get any value for our younger players it was coming anyway. I would not mind if the muppets showed any consistency over the views, just rearranged to suit what ever situation that was at hand. Obviously Lowe thought the bank would not fold, but did exactly that directly after the loan window ended. We needed to get value for those young players otherwise it was all over anyway.