up and away

Just what exact ****** are you trying to say then? The facts have always been there in the last 2 years accounts as to why we will go into administration. This was nailed on as soon as we could not get rid of all the high earners on our books, let alone command a fee for them! Lowe is responsible for relegation from the Premier and with that comes the reorganization in our first year of the CCC. Subsequent to that we have wasted close to £40M without Lowes help in bringing the club completely to our kness and in the position we now find ourselves in. When Lowe left we only had a couple of high earners on our books and a large amount of the subsequent high earners were not contracted and BWP only a loan. Lowe would have to approved new signings but there is no way he would have just undid all the hard work from the previous cull that we had just gone through. Now go back over all those idiot posts where Lowe was interfering with team selection because he was trying to force high earners from the club or not allowing the manager to play them because of the bonuses. There seems little mention of this from the muppets now they actually see the consequences of letting costs out of control. The main reason Lowe is giving these interviews is more down to what he feels is about to happen to this club in the near future.

Can only presume you don't get Radio Hampshire where you live or else you would have heard Crouch say that this money is needed (half a million of it) just to see this season out!!!!! No return for it, nothing to show for your donation/gift apart from ensuring the Club stays afloat. Good or bad, I need to have a think about it. I heard everything Crouch said, but unless there is a plan to bring all this together, believe it to be pointless. Why does this look exactly the same as Leon hunkered down in the bunker waiting for Fulthorpe to ride up and save the day? If we have any money, it is pointless just delaying the obvious and wasting the money on the administrator, when the money can actually do good later. This point needs to be explained and if it cannot, I can only assume this is Crouch applying his full intelect to the problem again. The question regarding the £2M that Crouch was prepared to put in just highlights this fact. Previously safe in the knowledge that Lowe or Wilde would not shell out, that £2M is no where to be seen now. I don't deny Crouch is still generous in what he has given, but there has to be a constructive plan rather than the "idiot fan in the boardroom" he previously demonstrated.

As much as I agree with the comments and the stupidity of Crouch for his part in the financial mess, beggars cannot be choosers. I cannot see anyone else out there who is going to put anything into Saints and as such we are stuck together until he becomes a liability again. McMonemy is a completely different matter, such a devisive person with everything flowing towards him, rather than shelling out. At the present I cannot see the point regarding trying to plug the hole with money for the administrator. Unless we find someone with capital for the long term, this becomes totally pointless. All you are doing is delaying the inevitable with that money doing absolutely no good. Save it for when we have been through the wringer and it can be of used for the team. I tried to get an answer to this point on Saturday but it was all too hectic. If anyone can answer this point and tell me why giving money now would not be a waste, I would like to hear it. I would like to help out, but will not until I know this is the right time to do it. One other question I would like to ask Crouch, exactly what was the rationale in signing Davies?

Maybe because unlike you and me, one of them won the FA Cup the other has already poured money into Saints and seems able/ willing to pour more in. I did offer to match Lawries contribution, but he was not sure there was enough in the pot for the pair of us:D

I agree about Gillet, but do not see Morgan solving that problem. The only solution I can see is SoccerMums, move Lloyd James into midfield and find someone else for right back, maybe Wotton? I am not sure Lloyd James can do that job positionally, but he is the only one I can see to put in the tackles. Maybe Euell, but to me this is the key area that needs addressing.

The trouble is, beggars cannot be chosers. You can blame Lowe for a lot of things, but the current finacial mess has little to do with him when you consider how much was wasted whilst he had nothing to do with us. Lowe has gone now, so we have to do the best with the idiots that are left, with Crouch the only one I can see putting some money in. Unless someone can explain the value of putting any money in now, I shall wait for later to do my bit. I'll offer to pop my pennies on top of that £2M wad that Leon has been teasing us with and see what he says!

I have a lot of respect for Mike Richards, just a fan with Saints at heart. However, until we know where the club is going, all you could be doing is filling the administrators pockets. There will be a time when they need our money, but I am not sure if it is done now, it will actually get to where you intend it to go?

Phew! Thank god we can blame administration on Lowe. He singulary failed in finding fees for all those star players and never had the nous to find loans for the remainder in the treatment room or others he could not shift. He should have listened to the fans and limited bonuses being paud to these over hyped piles of crap. I knew Lowe would come in handy for something once he went!

A very good and balanced article overall, worth printing out in full. One small point would be, But this never needed to be the disaster it eventually became. We never invested in our best opportunity to jump straight back out of the trap door and instead chose to “cut our cloth accordingly” Chants from the Northam of “You’ll never play here again” and “we’re only here for a season” would soon come back to haunt us… I feel we ploughed everything into supporting Redknapp and as such paid the price for the that the following season, whilst trying to adjust to the CCC and sorting the finances. You can argue either way whether extending ourselves under Redknapp whilst still in the Premier was correct, or saving it all for the following season in the CCC? I still feel Redknapp let us down badly and should have got out of the mess with the lowest points total on record required.

This is the crux of the position and the result of many things that followed. Hone and Delieu made a classic schoolboy error in spending money that was not there. They had been duped into what finances were going to be available and virtually made themselves unemployable. They gave an ultimatum, either allow us to sort this mess out and get things back on an even keel or we will resign. Resigning would mean the company coming to a standstill, so they were given the power to sort out the finances. If Crouch had any common sense he would have kept Wilde within the board, but he was given the sword and room to do what's best. The first big issue was the sale of Bale in the January window, something rejected by the other directors at Saints. You then had the gloves off and no love lost on either side. Crouch then tried to outflank the executive by installing Thompson, but had booted his trump card (Wilde) into the wilderness. The executives then polled the major share holders upon the way forward, do you want Thompson, how should the club be run? Lowe and Wilde agreed they did not want Thompson but little else, so the executive proceeded in that direction, going by the general assumed direction wished by the majority. It's possible the executive could be dismissed for gross misconduct, but those trying to implement that charge would be equally guilty from that association. Lowe stayed out of the way with his only input being not wanting Thompson installed. If at any time either Crouch or Wilde had told the executive to get the costs under control earlier, it would have happened or Lowe would have to go against it. Once the executive got past the position of sorting the initial over spend, there was very little you could blame them for, they were just following the majority view. The contracts would have had to have been paid up but a gagging order was thrown in for good measure and all went on their merry way. They managed to get a atatement in the accounts that they had returned very healthy figures and providing the only possibility of investment, SISU. But only the idiots could not see that all the family silver had been flogged off for one almighty **** up. With no further fall out from the inconsistency between the executives saying we were potless and had to sell players, to Crouch saying no we were not and could continue for a long time to come without weakening the squad. Off they went! The small overspend at the beginning instigated the position that allowed everything to subsequently happen. The stupid spending that followed could not have happened if any two of the major share holders objected. But all were divided and the exceutive just made as much as possible available to Burley within basic financial guide lines. The executive are not at fault here apart from their intial error, it is the major share holders who allowed this to continue because they were more interested in petty vengances. The majority of this blame has to go down to Wilde and Crouch.

I bought tickets to "this good cause" without even managing to get there. Disappointed at what came out and wrote to the club for an explanation. The club just charged for what they had to provide on the night and for the additional costs I was told that answer could only come from the organising committee for the event. Should the club have paid all the expenses for a player who did not even consider Saints as his main club! Why could he not get ManU or Leeds to put this event on? Then to be followed up by all this sheite thrown at the club for trying to help out. There are many Danny Wallaces out there without the benefit of previous big earnings from football. In future it will be those efforts I will glady give to in the future.

You really are an ignorant person. I can't be arsed to explain why, it would be pointless. You mean nonexistant. If our undoing is to be administration, exactly what more could have been done this season to avoid it? Apart from following the stupid advice of keeping all the high earners, playing everyone to diminish the pot from the playing bonuses and get into administration far earlier? With all the money wasted over the previous two years exactly how could Lowe have influenced that? What we are seeing now has nothing to do with Lowe, but the mess that was accumulated.

You just do not have a clue. If we go into administration this will be because we totally wasted close to £40M over the last couple of years and more before. What do you think Lowe should have done, get even tougher with the high earners to moving on? Dressed the players up more to get some form of fee? Exactly how should he have tackled this financial crisis? This has been on the cards since we could not sell / move players since the begining of the season, guaranteed post the January window. Any idiot could see this coming apart from the total muppets, still advocating not to let these players go and play them more irrespective of the wage bill. The one good thing about all of this is that idiots like you will no longer have a purpose.

What a total idiot, how exactly could he have got us out of this mess? Remember all those idiot posts about nasty Lowe trying to force those high earning players out of the club? Those other idiot posts about Lowe interferring with what players we could afford to play! So your hero Crouch is absolutely blameless, whereas inreality he has been in there up to his pikey neck. Once we were in this position we had to do everything possible to get rid of players. Once the market would not take them we were done.

That is a very good call. It is vital we have someone who can pop in the tackles in the middle of the park and it would be definotely worth while trying Lloyd James there. My only fear is that it will not be tried soon enough.

I like Mark Dennis, always brings a smile to the face when I see him. But if anyone is passing on hair brained ideas or schemes, it's Mark.

Rant??? Nah...just a little sarcasm. Lowe always glazes over the fact that he has pillaged other clubs in the way that we get done, that's all. I'm all for honesty - which is in short supply at SMS. So we are expected to get all our youth players for nothing? Now there is a very clever strategy that guarantees the form of quality your posts exhibit.

It is not easy FC, but the total ceiling catered for too big a squad. Better to pay 20 players a million each than 30 players two thirds of the same... This is Rupert's biggest issue - paying money to attract talent. And yet it is (like it or not) the basis of most (if not all) genuinely successful football clubs - much as it is at the heart of most succesful businesses. The best people in any industry command the highest wages. What a total load of tosh. There are so many examples of why this will not work, top players do not want to go to clubs like Saints for reasons other than money. The prime example of Kaka and ManC highlights that point to a degree unimagineable a couple of years ago. Clubs without the pedigree do not have a high success ratio in signing the top players even when they have the money for the fee and the salary. What you end up getting is the Jimmy Hasselbanks of this world. When clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Middlesbrough, Blackburn suffer, there is even more reason for us to suffer. The only way of getting hold of these top players is to take a punt in the transfer market or develop them from the youth system. That is our only chance of being able to obtain top players for a limited time. Anyone who thinks we had a remote chance of getting a player like Saha at the time is off their trolley. We did extremely well in being able to attract Kevin Phillips, that's just the nature of a club like Saints and mirrored throughout the league.

You really think so..? Yes they tried very hard to improve their old stadium, and the Valley is now a vast improvement. But push onto the next level with their team..? When they were relegated from the Premiership, I didn't see any huge ambition to stay, let alone any huge ambition to improve. It's obvious that building a new, or improving an existing stadium redirects investment elsewhere from the main destination, i.e. success on the pitch. But Saints limiting factor was glaringly obvious in The Dell. Having built a new stadium, and moved to it, then the ambition really had to push on. Not to stumble, and continually point out that our catering is now top class with our new first rate facilities. It all comes to nothing unless the team on the pitch is as top class as the catering. Just look through all the teams that have spent money they do not have on the playing side to push on to the next level and won in the long term? I can show you so many teams that have done that and lost with classic examples of Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday and others like Coventry or Leicester who would be there but for private intervention. Even clubs like Norwich, Crystal Palace, Middlebrough etc find it tough going that route even with exceptional private sources of income. History has shown us the only realistic way of pushing on to the next level in the long term is organically, by maximising your supporter level, the income recieved from that base and developing your own players. That is something that can establish a club long term, something Liverpool did decades ago. We were on that track but had not developed far enough to be able to fend off adversity when it found us. If we could have kept progressing within the Premier to about 2010, I feel we would then have been an established mid Premier club like Everton or Villa, strong enough to with stand the adversity that caused our relegation.

Agree. The board of SFC showed a shocking level of ambition after the FA Cup final and 8th-placed finish. They decided to do nothing through a combination of not wanting to leave their comfort zone and not wanting their power-base diluted by inward investment. The club is paying a heavy price for that summer of lunacy.. Well You have the perfect example with Charlton, as the club that tried to push on to the next level. No club has exclusive membership to the Premier without exceptional financial backing, either from an individual or income. All this muppet speak only makes sense when you disregard all the fact behind the equation.

But he's been criticising those who went on the march as well Best and Blackstock both wanted to leave, once again he's talking about stuff when he doesn't know the full facts. I wonder if that banner across the front of the march had anything to do with it? In case you have forgotten WOTTA NOTTA GOTTA CLUE As far as Best and Blackstock were concerned, they only wanted to leave when the position here did not have any real opportunity. As with Cranie and Mills, if someone had sorted this out properly before it got too late, they more than likely would have stayed. You only have to look at a very similar position with McGoldrick looking to get away previously, now as happy as Larry. Someone does not know the facts, but it aint Wotte.

There was definitely a reaction at the time, but this has to be placed in context with them not actually having the job, just informed speculation. The main point voiced at the time on here "Who the fook are these people and Lowe etc". What the actual reaction if they had been employed would have been is a different matter. I have stated previously regarding Wotte quitting his job on the assumption the Saints position was his. Saints wanting to know if the contract was acceptable but only binding once both parties had signed. Go back to that point in time just prior to hiring Wotte, Burley then changes his mind after talking to WSG and a decision has to be made. Given Burleys resume at the time and compare that to Wotte's with everything that involved (ccc experience, foreign etc), I would expect a 95% in favour of Burley from anyone involved with Saints, only Lowe appears to view this as being far more even at the time. It's very early days for Wotte and only at the end of the season can we reflect meaningly upon what might have been, if we had signed Wotte instead of Burley.

Apart from the fact it was an entirely different deal. We already had the money in the bank before we signed the injured Pulis Jnr. Surely a 'good businessman' would have found a way out of signing him and of keeping the cash already agreed for the sale of Davies. We can never be 100% sure, but if it was the case I would have no problem with that. The negotiations were going on at the same time and if Lowe gave his word, I am sure that would have been good enough. Maybe Pulis was signed on merit alone, but I just cannot see him getting a game for us? I accept we have been forced to look in the bargain basement for players at League 1 standard, but find little logic in the Pulis signing for the team. After Wotte's comments, who knows? I am not going to argue with him at the present moment.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=219657#post219657 "....little equation for you to ponder....our friend van der waals...his friend....Tony Pulis.....D.Gorre currently our rotational reserve/first team coach (ex.reserve coach Stoke City FC)....Pulis junior (Portsmouth 0 games,Stoke 2,Torquay 3,Plymouth 5,Grimsby 9,Bristol Rovers 1,Southampton 0, 2 year contract)....Andrew Davies to Stoke City ('un-disclosed fee',now on loan at Preston North End).... " :confused: If we were still lumbered with Davies now, possibly no Size and still no fully fit Davies and the salary to try and contend with. Pulis could never play a game for us and still be the most important signing we made this season.