up and away

Spot on... except it's the FL not the FA ;-) Very different things :-) Any appeal has to go to a FL panel made up of FL chairman, so there is no real issue there. The only thing that makes sense is that the FL informed Saints prior to the administration deadline that the holding company going into administration, would not lead to a points deuction for the club. That I believe could leave to recourse outside of the FL structure and looks like something the FL is very keen to stop before it has started.

There is a lot in what you say but a lot of people could give proof of funds without the intention or ability to use those funds. As to the knowledge of the mega rich backer, the is a total red herring for the exclusivity or even the deal itself from the Administrators point of view. Like yourself I cannot see the Administrator placing himself in this position but a lot of the small peices of information coming out, just do not make sense. For the weird and wonderful things do not neccessarily have to make sense but i will be very glad when the deal has been done, even with no investment.

True, but possibly sounding him out (may be during a golf day) is different than interviewing him or offering him the job. That's what I heard happened weeks ago, with KK turning it down for what ever reason. Whether he has had a change of heart I have no idea, but from from Pinnacles denial it looks a no no and all this is just a rehash from the preliminary approach, which has all been put to bed?

If you define a limited budget at Fulham as something in the region of 10x's the average, then yes? I don't rate KK as a manager but cannot see it as anything else but a massive win win for Saints because of everything it would represent from the crowds to the player budget etc. But you need so many boxes ticked for him to accept, I really doubt it.

If Wotte is successful then great but show me where in his career he has been? If my Aunty Mary had ******** she would be my Uncle Bob. We start with -10 points do we have time to suffer further mismanagement or do idiots like you not see that? I accept that people like you who supported Lowe to the n'th degree will not have any word said against a stupid decision like appointing this guy in the first place so have to constantly follow blindly - whereas some of us want more from the club. You want him to stay on.....but then take over whose job? Hockaday, Henderson all have done great with the academy and reserves yet you want them replaced by someone who gets relegated at most of his clubs and you think thats the best option? Its idiots like you that see this club in the mess its in with just accepting the mediocrite we always have to put up with. Where have I stated I want Wotte to stay? That decision is Pinnacles and I will be happy with what they go along with. But if they are having problems nailing down a manager and they want to keep Wotte in the interim, I will have no problems with that. This is nothing to do with Lowe, just idiots like yourself.

Well Gordon Brown could be a very lucky boy. He has already turned us down, so whether he is having a change of heart is another matter?

Did you not see the article about commission and the Egypt board not being happy? Yet we still have some 'intelligent' fans who want him here next season as manager despite his great career record! Show me one person who wants Wotte as their number 1 choice? Just because some fans have the common sense to realise the difficult position the new owners may be in. If they feel that the best option is to give themselves a little more time by hanging onto Wotte in the interim, then so be it. The difficulty would then come for idiots like yourself, if the guy is successful. I really doubt Wotte will be manager once things get going but that does not detract from the blinding stupidity of fans such as yourself. It's not our decision and you should be grateful enough, just for Pinnacle to pull us out of this financial mess.

I am not completely sure about this as any appeal will be heard by other FL chairman, with history showing they don't make U turns. But if the club approached the FL prior to the cut off date for taking the -10 points this season and we received an unequivocal NO to a deduction because of our structure. Then we should be afforded the luxury of back dating that -10 points to last season, leaving this season completely clear. Even then there is no guarantee that the FL would change anything and whether we can go outside the FL structure to do anything about it? In any normal legal case with the proviso's being in our favour, anyone would say we have a good case. In the case of the FL, I really doubt there will be any change.

I imagine if you are going to ask a fans representative, asking one that actually had a season ticket this last season would have some merit!

One of the real muppets speaks....Loweys muppets.....You and the prof are one of a kind.....Why do you always berate us wonderful fans....Not a real supporter of Saints but a Lowe down muppet... On your basis, I doubt you could label anyone who goes to a game as a supporter, ie someone who actually goes to games and buys tickets. Just someone who fits your myopic view. What's brought this spurt on, had your sofa reupholstered or has Crouch had an enema and you can't get used to the light? I have no preference whether the new owners keep Wotte or bring in someone new, it is their decision. They are spending the money to get us out of the sheite and actually keep the club in existence. But it will not be altering my position if they have not been lucky in their search and Wotte ends up in charge.

Scrutinising people's posts with a fine-toothed comb alert.... Is that a genuine "ITK" wink or a "reading between the lines 2+2" wink? For that to happen, Keegan would have to say yes.

I have never heard so much crap. The only reason Wotte will be manager is if they cannot get in the / or a candidate they want. What possibly could happen is because of the very late timing, Wotte may be in charge for the short term waiting for a suitable candidate to be available. If for any reason Wotte gets an extended run and does well I imagine his chances of retaining the job would become a lot higher. So at the present time it looks as though the only way Wotte would be here in the long term is if he were successful, now there would be a terrible dilemma for the muppets.

The first choice wa a no go, Dowie I doubt because of the timing, third choice probably off else where, so Wotte may get a shot because of timing and options available. Or we could actually see a new manager tommorow? But it does appear Wotte is looking into things but can hardly take that as a definitive as yet.

You could be the real deal but those are in the past now by the looks of things.

Have you been suffering from selective news black outs over the last few years? Our only chance of financial survival rested with being able to force those HIGH SALARY EXPERIENCED INTERNATIONALS to another club or off our books! And if you cannot get them off the books by all means play them, but if that results in having to pay bonuses that again threaten your very existence, you think that is a good idea? If you can get them to forego those bonuses, by all means use them at will. Would you have preferred administration earlier?

I can't see a problem with Crouch being on the board, as I can't see him deciding anything. Without doubt he is a total idiot that cannot keep his mouth shut, but if the new owner wants to put him on the board, I really don't see an issue in that per se. I would be pretty confident that if things are not going his way, he will revert to type but in this case it will have little effect and he will be on his bike. The one thing that I am starting to consider, is just how solid this bid from Pinnacle is? The requirement to have Crouch on the board? The need for Tony Lynham to come on here and explain matters after the renegotiation rumour? The reluctance of the main man to want to show his face? Still confident the deal will go through and will be overjoyed for the club to still be in existence with just -10 points next season and no investment in the team. The one thing that appears at odds is the statement that the banker is worth several £M100's and we are looking at a 5 year plan to return to the Premier, whereas every other indication / rumour gives the impression we are running on a shoe string? Maybe the bankers main money is tied up else where at the present moment and we will have to wait for that to be released?

We were forced to go with the younger players because of the financial mess we were in. We were in so much financial mire the only way out was to develop the younger players to sell on and wipe out our debt. Just plodding along without developing these players guarantees administration if not that season, then the next. Of course it was a conscious decision to go with Poortvliet, but that was heavily dictated by the financial situation. Take away that financial mess and Pearson may well still be here along with the club in the CCC. The worst decision was ****ing away £40M and leaving us in this perilous position with a snowball in hells chance of getting out of it. In normal times your point would be valid, but as I have explained previously, this was a forced decision which was largely dictated by circumstance. We should get a decent idea about Pearson this season if they make it into the play offs with their resources, but there was very little conclusive proof previously to definitely say he would have been any better in the circumstances. When you omit DMG completely from the bench for the likes of Pericard it really does not give the impression you are prepared to maximise your youth potential.

All fair points IMO. I personally think we would have done better this season had we kept Pearson but I dont think he showed anything to suggest that with this seasons resources he would have done anything amazing. Keeping us up again would have been a massive achievment so hindsight shows the gaff that was made. Shiit happens though so we shall move on. If you go back to the euphoria post avoiding relegation last season, there were several posters who thought Pearson should be kept on, based upon more what might be than any hard evidence. With all the players we knew that would be not available for selection, relegation was more than likely for Pearson bearing in mind what he had done with a full deck and what he would have remaining to play with. I am pretty sure we all wanted Pearson to stay, but such was the task the probability of relegation was always favourite. That's why I feel it's very difficult to judge whether Wotte is worthy of retaining. It does not matter to me who the new owners pick but it is impossible to look at Wotte's performances and give a decisive analysis with what he had to work with. Take all the players Pearson had available to him and is it possible Wotte would have fared better with those players? That is a more than possible outcome. What I would really like to know is the actual decision making gone through by Lowe and Wilde in not retaining Pearson. I don't believe for one minute that was about sour grapes as Pearson was the exact sort of candidate that Lowe would go for previously. Knowing the financial limitations to come and the forced reliance on youth I would expect the question of the manager having to try and force players out due to the financial pressures, where ordinarily he would be fighting to keep them, would be very high in the pecking order. I remember Basset saying that during the interview he would fully agree with the chairman regarding playing the youth, come the actual job he would ignore that completely. The only way we were going to get out of this mess was via the youth players who had to step up to the mark so we could sell them on to keep the possibility of turning things round after a couple of years. We were never going to solve this issue in one season because of the magnitude of the financial mess we were in. We tried to buy / loan experienced pro's but could not find any better than what we already had because our finances had us in competion with League 1 clubs for players, not CCC clubs. Everything had to be geared to the youth to have any chance and even though Poortvliet did not work out, I can understand the forced decision, with absolutely no where near a guarantee if you went with Pearson.

The real question is, can you put an effective value on the break up price in this climate? You have assets in the property sector, all with restrictive planning options in a totally depressed property market. It would not surprise me that someone is playing hard ball over this valuation and it does make sense. What does not make ense is Fry extending the deadline for a month and running up further debt that would leave his cv liable for a serious kicking. Fry has no interest in us and is just looking after his own position and that of the creditors, anything else would be totally stupid. Tony Lynham does not come across as a bull****er and I doubt Matty would put himself into this position, even in these desperate times. The only thing that gives this story any credence is the reluctance of our mystery backer to become public. I think there is justification for concern until our banker comes to light, but I feel there are more reasons to be optimistic.

Just no where near a valid comparison! Did you actually go to the game against Leicester? That was more a case of them shooting themselves in the foot then anything we did. Terrible game, great result. Pearson has shown he is a good manager by what he has done and I would have been more than happy for him to have stayed, but that does not mean he would have fared much different. The biggest change Pearson brought was getting the midfield to compete and improving Wright and Euell. He failed dismally against Burnley with the team showing absolutely no fight or passion, D&G could have done no worse there. The Burnley game was the most important and the one where we could keep our destiny in our own hands and we choked big time, against a team that could hardly have a worst record at St Mary's or an away current form that was the worst in the CCC. We played very well against Sheffield Utd but if they had not lost all their centre halves and the CCC's top scorer the previous weekend, that could have been totally different. Just look at the players we subsequent no longer had access to effectively R Wright, J Wright, Hammill, Safri, Viafara, Saga, John, Skacel, Lucketti, Pearce, Licka, Jesus and I am sure there are many more I have over looked. And before anyone starts saying we could have had full access to some of those players, we could not afford their playing bonuses and the desperate need to get them off the wage bill, hence why we are actually in administration. I like Pearson and thought me came across very well and has gone on and done well this season, but that dramatic last day escape certainly does not elevate him to Messiah status over what could have been completely different. Wish he had stayed and will be interesting this season to see how he gets on with a club that should be getting into the play offs with their resources.

Anyone who can hold their breath for that length of time deserves the good news coming soon!

I would imagine this has all been sorted already, hence why we are coming out of administration? Would you prefer we don't have an agreed CVA and a further 17 point deduction instead?

I could not disagree with this more. We only just managed to avoid releagtion the previous season and every man and his dog knew that the side contained less quality when we started the new season. I think anyone with sense knew that we would be relegated or very close to relegation with the players at Jan's and then Wotte's disposal. If I'm honest I was very surprised at what an excellent footballing side we were at the start of the season with players like Davis, Lallana and Cork playing out of their skin. But when the resukts didn't go our way confidence dissapeared, the side performance dropped badly and then it was pretty much a foregone conclusion after that. I'm not saying Jan and Wotte did not make lots of mistakes or that they are good managers but with the finances the way they were we had no chance. I would agree with that. Our big problem was that we could not defend effectively. Once we sorted out the defence with JP the back was ok but when we lost Gillet the fight from midfield disappeared. Being such a young player, Gillet disapeared after a good beginning, then coming back strongly before being injured again. I thought the heat got to Poortvliet a bit but Wotte looked sound enough. Our main problem was that we were competing for players with League 1 clubs and it is very difficult to come up with a gem to do an effective job in the CCC. Those that were within our reach were no better than what we had in the likes of Wotton etc. So what was the point to buy in more crap to fill the bench's.

Pretty sure it's us that are in for Dowie, really don't know if he will be any good. I don't see much difference between Dowie and Wotte, but thankfully it's not my mistake to make. Is Aidy Boothroyd back in employment, maybe a possibility?

"I was wrong" would have saved a lot of server space... What a total idiot. You may well be happy to play Russian roulette but the result does not justify the action in any way. We all are very happy with the possibility of where we are now but that does not justify any such sort of moronic action.