up and away

Think the issue here is that you can coach Jos to stop him making reckless tackles in the box and tell him to stay on his feet, whereas Jose's mistakes - losing runners being the biggest issue (Tevez, RVP - although clearly, better defenders than Fonte will come up short against these players) is a little bit more difficult to work on. Fonte was the weaker of the two CBs last season as well, in my opinion. For those reasons - i would expect that Jos keeps his place and partners Yoshida, once he is up to speed, with Fonte as a useful replacement for both if needed. Fontes problems all stem from a lack of concentration brought about by pace or physical effort. He's been like this since he first arrived at Saints in League 1, always giving the opposition that chance per game. At the start those forwards were not taking full advantage when he would nod off and get the wrong side of an attacker followed by panic. I said it then and it's still the same now, except more expensive at this level. Most of the time the rest of Fontes was so good you would forget about the odd lapse or as I did, believe it was because he was too busy covering for others. Fonte still has many good moments on the pitch I can see the possibility of him doing something in midfield, but he has to be pulled from CB. I agree with you about Hooiveld but reckon it's going to take some work, it's just in his DNA at the moment. I am not sure there is a place for Fonte in the defence even as sub, though I don't mind the idea of going to a 5 man midfield with Fonte in front of the CB's. That may be an iffy thing to say given the performance of our midfield, but Fonte has qualities. It's just being able to use them without him costing us.

I don't see any problems here. Ricky is effective enough and gets the start until he is no longer doing the business, then he fails to stay on or get the start. JRod is too far off the game at present and we need to sort this quickly, so I would find out if Chung or Mayuda are the answer. JRod will get further chances starting with the next cup game but he has not done enough to block the alternatives.

Not so bizarre. I have always believed Fonte would make a better midfielder than he will defender. He has good feet, at ease taking the ball forward and would benefit playing in front of the defence where the pressure has got too much for him. On Sunday Fonte lost it and the panic spread from him across the whole defence, so I just cannot see him as being a main stay of the defence. But I cannot deny he can take / pass the bal out from defence as well as any of them. He has the qualities it's just about negating his negatives that will earn him a place. On thing that stood out like a sore thumb against ManU was we never had anyone on the bench able to do a decent job in midfield. If Cork is fit I fully expect him to make a bow but if he is still injured it would be no surprise to see Fonte.

I like that set up because first it gives us some form of control over the midfield. Not sure Ricky or Puncheon are guaranteed a start, but adding Ricky into the defensive headers makes so much sense. It's very tempting to add Mayuka into the start because the guy has so much pace. So it would not surprise me if he started in place of Puncheon. It's all going to come down to how he has impressed in training. If Mayuka has done enough in training, he will replace Puncheon or Ricky. Add into that the fitness levels of both Mayuka and Ramirez. ---------------------Davis------------------- Clyne-----Yoshida-----Hooiveld-----Fox -------------------Morgan------------------------ --------------Davis-----JWP-------------------- Mayuka----------------------------Lallana -------------------Lambert---------------------- If it's a warm day Ricky will not last the 90 and Mayuka can go up front to be replaced by Ramirez. Alternatively subbing Lallana for Ramirez would make sense from what we have seen so far and the expected condition of the players. We have to start with enough in midfield to have a form of control but the addition of Mayuka or Ramirez from the start could easily give us so much more of an attacking option. Sadly I can't see a starting place for JRod but I can see Fonte coming on in midfield at some point, Cork if fit.

A stupid little spat about which I don't know any real details and one I will just ignore. Matty's dvd's still give the same pleasure and Cortese continually amazes where he is taking the club. I believe Corteses beef is Matty's reluctance to accept he nearly caused Saints to come to it's knees, a atance I have never accepted from Matty. If you start arguing that the FL penalties are wrong and produce Micky Falka as your front man you deserve to be ridiculed. I can't believe anyone now would still think the Pinnacle deal to still be right, beggars belief after all that was trotted out.

Not sure it is that impossible. Against Wigan we saw a totally different game where we could not break down their counter attacking set up. Against ManU and ManC we were afforded a lot of space which we will not get at the other end of the table. ManU and ManC would like every team to go head to head with them and bet their players would come out on top. Ferguson never even went for it at ManC for that very reason. We have to be able to break down the Wigans of this league, otherwise we have no chance. Equally we have to defend well enough against the likes of Wigan to square that circle. The other major point is we must accomplish this over 90 minutes, not leave ourselve dead on our feet for the last 20 minutes.

Unless you are going to man mark Scholes from his own half, you really don't stand much of a chance. Scholes just by passed the midfield with the accuracy of his long passing and our arses suddenly went along with that introduction. A few teams cancel him out but hardly any of the lower clubs. Our biggest cause of the turn around came when we stopped playing the ball out. Panic set in from Fonte and everyone started to try and lash it any where. The substitutions made sense, Mayuka the pace machine goes up the middle to try and catch them on the break, Guly goes over and shores up the right. I still can't get the numpties blaming Guly, it was other positions that caused the problem. The only thing I would say about the subs is it would have been nice to have brought on Cork. The only question that needs answering was did we need to change out those players, had they got little left in the tank?

Fontes arse went today, completely. He lost the plot at the end, slicing the ball, could not pass, think or do anything rational. I have always thought Fonte would make a good defensive midfielder, but we have no problem there.This is a poor defence with only Clyne being a keep. Fox just gives the winger all the space he needs to put in the cross rather than close down and get walked past. Great for blind alley passes or any kick that off loads responsibility. He would have kept A&E and treatment tables full in a bygone era. Jos is always going to make errors against fast opponents, just a fact of life that cannot be helped. Kelvin can't see past 25yards but a good save of a crap penalty. Clyne needs the basics given a priority but has the talent without a doubt. Midfield did all their bit and more to secure the defence with Morgan giving a stellar performance and the attack was not too shoddy. I expect many will say don't change a winning side (as I was thinking when Ricky and Punch were subbed), but how much did those two have left in the tank? A good performance but lets not fool ourselves, as with ManC you could see them scoring any time they really put their mind to it. Some may feel this type of performance bodes well against the lesser clubs, again don't fool yourself. The lesser clubs will not give you that time and space we had against ManC and ManU in the midfield. Ricky's actually getting free kicks in this league and that could be a big difference.

It's a bit easier for me as I did not believe he had the game for the Premier but I do strongly sympathise with your view. I don't believe Ricky is that far from Billy's position either and of the two players it would be even more of a wrench to see Ricky go. By now both the fans and players know after the Wigan game that big changes were needed as no one would come out the other side, at least now we have a chance. When Adkins got all melancholy after winning promotion he alluded to this sort of scenario in hoping all would get their chance. He realises now it's just not practical and we all have to move on, grateful for what those we leave behind have contributed. It's a tough old world and this is one of those sink or swim moments that life throws up.If we had not of made this step and things continued in the manner of the first two games, I expect Billy would have wanted out after enough of that start and the fans wishing it.

I have always been of the opinion that he was not good enough for the Premier. Still one of the best buys last season because he did the business to get us across the line. It's sad to see those that helped us get where we are being discarded to stay in the league, but Wigan has shown me I would rather have a handful disappointed rather than all.

I believe the previous deal which was unacceptable to Bologna summed out just below £16M, so I would doubt this one will be any cheaper. If he were to come to Saints after so much umming and ahhing, sods law would reduce half his skills immediately. Never seen the guy play, just caught up in everyone else's hyper. The last time I can remember such a transfer frenzy was over a Spanish winger, Del Pedro? On a free, who eventually flopped at some where like Blackburn.

I am not so sure about this, even giving it 50/50 status. Penarol need a significant gain out of any new agreement otherwise there is no impetus. This new agreement can take many forms, part payment now and final payment at some later date. Bearing in mind we are looking at a 5 year contract, I doubt they will want to leave in until he is resold. Unless this is covered by cast iron bank guarantees, it just does not look that easy. South American teams would be very nervous about making this sort of deal with the experiences of financial dealings in that part of the world. Then a quick glance at what happened to Rangers would be enough to make most of them shudder. It seems Penarol are pushing for a good sum to bring this about because I cannot understand the % for youth development. That sort of argument is commonly used in youth players leaving on a free and being adjudicated by the governing body. In this situation it just smacks of any old excuse for hiking the price as much as possible. Considering the old costs to what we are hearing now it would not surprise me if the best course of action would be for us to get a loan and pay Penarol as per the original agreement with Bologna. This does not require renegotiation and I would have thought with all of Corteses contacts, relatively straight forward, especially if you bring in a sympathetic Liebherr into the equation. The only good thing I can see from Saints side is that Penarol will not want the sale to drag on to the next window or after. Normally the fee will drop as windows go by along with the delay in obtaining the money. Penarol don’t have the drive to tie things up as quickly as Bologna, where all the buying being lined up on the basis of the Ramirez deal going through. All the selling clubs will be aware of this. There is so much guess work going on here but we seem to have a rough outline now. What I really find intriguing is how this highlights the financial structure behind the club and the remaining Liebherrs. I just do not understand how a person of Corteses standing cannot organise this independent from Bologna and Penarol, being by far the easiest and cheapest route?

That was absolute ******. I remember Coleman commenting from the training ground on Sky Sports *That's the 3rd time they (Saints) have come in for him (Malbranque). He does not want to leave and we want to keep him". We definitely wanted Malbranque but he was not interested in joining Saints. Saha at that time was one of the hottest prospects in the Premier and we had absolutely no chance of landing him.

It all looks a done deal as far as Bologna. the player and agent are concerned. I would expect this is all signed up subject to contract with no leverage for backing out now. If we were to just pay Penerol the 30% sell on fee, even Penarol could not stop the deal going through. The trouble is it appears Saints want to renegotiate this sell on fee to a future arrangement. To me this looks a nightmare to negotiate and unless you are prepared to balance things significantly towards Penerol, does not look promising. When Peneraol start talking about wanting a % for the players development that is concerning. That aspect has absolutely no place in these negotiations and can only be viewed as Penerol pressurising Saints for extra monies. Any renegotiation with Penerol would put them in the driving seat with little to lose in being awkward, but potential for gain.

I keep forgeting that Saints are renegotiating the Penarol sell on clause, that is massive. Penarol know both Saints and Bologna are over a barrel here so can stretch this to their full advantage. The trouble is how do you equate the current lump sum owed to a future sum with all the possibles attached. The fact Penarol are now quoting for his time as a youth player really should not enter into matters, just shows how dislocated discussions are getting. This is the first time I have seen Cortese put to the test in having to deal in this matter for a player he really believes can make a difference. Just wondering how much more he will take before giving Penarol the one fingered salute. It would not surprise if the original Penarol sell on clause is taken up, that should not be up for discussion as to what we are seeing here. I wonder whether FIFA allow 3rd party negotiations to extend beyond the initial contract, can't recall seiing this before. The last time I got so charged about signing a player was Kevin Phillips, hope this result turns out better.

Penarol or whoever can only follow the conditions in the contract they had with Bologna. They are allowed a percentage of further transfer fees but they have no power of negotiation. FIFA does not allow multiple owners as demonstrated in the Tevez case for expressly this purpose.. So what ever that contract states will be the rate and Penarol can do nothing about that. This 5% may be a commission to FIFA (as all monies have to go through FIFA). It may be something to do with what is regarded as the actual fee. This will be explicit in the contract and something FIFA can rule on very quickly. Even if this is not explicit it will then fall to the simplest definition and go forward on that basis. Penarol can delay things in the short term but this can be easily adjudicated by FIFA. In previous cases of sell on fee disagreements it's between the selling club and FIFA. I am pretty sure Penarol cannot stop this going through and Saints just need to pay the Penarol share to FIFA for this to go through. FIFA may adjudicate we have to pay that little more but I really doubt this. The FIFA rules are specifically designed to stop this sort of thing happening, hence why you cannot have more than one owner but you can have contractual sell on fees.

Not so wrong, it all hinges on the fees to be paid to Ramires and his agent of £3M or €3M. Normally those fees are paid from the selling club but I can imagine Bologna wanting that to be paid by Saints. Why, because Penarol would be denied a share of that of that £3m (£0.9)going to the agent and player. So by paying Bologna the extra 3M and letting them pay the agent and player means Bologna gets 0.9M less and Penarol 0.9M more. This does all loosely fit in as €15M equates to near enough £12M but we never had it right as to why the contract was not sorted. But in hindsight the failure to pay over time looked even more ridiculous and this makes more sense.

Adkins is playing Lallana in the middle as a free role, to get the maximum attacking potential from our most skilled player. Put Ramirez in the team and you have a different equation and the emphasis could easily change to get the maximum attacking potential from Ramirez. Looking at the transfer activity, that would be about right. I don't know what the answer is to players positions but I would not expect JRod to be any better on the right. The majority of the good stuff he did at Burnley was by cutting in on his right foot from the left, little originating from the right. If we sign Ramirez it would be all about getting the best attack built around him, what ever that is rather than some previous set up which has hardly set the heather alight. I am struggling to see an answer with our current squad until someone comes along and imposes themselves. There seems little point in all these attackers when they are creating so little and would sub Lambert for a midfielder. Giving a more counter attacking set up and firming up the midfield. Our only chance is to counter attack in numbers but unless you have the opposition space to pour into, it's not going to be very effective. That's the problem when you don't have the pace or other physical attribute to open up defences.

Welcome to the Premier. We were not too bad in the first half, getting in quickly to the loose ball and having good possession. Lallana had his moments but nothing sustained from the team to warrant a winning threat. Wigan soaked up the pressure, then pressed the ball just that little bit more in the second half and we just wilted away. Wigan are nothing special but I doubt any Premier team playing that style against us will have problems. Against a team playing primarily defensively and without the pace to open their door, you just run out of ideas after a while and in effect we just gave in. If Saints had played in the same manner as Wigan we could easily have got a draw from the game. The trouble is going out against Wigan at home playing for a draw will never be acceptable to anyone, but that is the position we are in. If this had been the NPC, it's more than possible we could have got a win from that first half performance. I still can't believe Davis rooted himself in that position for the second goal (although not affecting the result). I don't know how much easier he could have made it for the forward. We have tried to create more by giving Lallana a free role but all that does is to underline where the threat is and the lack of pace to give their back line any head aches. We all knew from last season the lack of pace would give us problems and the only solution is to commit bodies forward to give that back line the head ache. We showed we could do this effectively with our second goal against ManC. Try that against a lowly team like Wigan soon shows you the futility when they are set up defensively. Our pass and move football is just not good enough for the Premier and we will get picked off consistently. We need to bring teams onto us and blunt them to stand a chance with what we have at present, hoping for something in the second half. We have too many players that don't have the pace to make the difference in the Premier and we have to start selecting the team accordingly. The only real pace we have is Clyne, but Wigan saw that one coming. It's going to be an interesting season and will take all this on the chin in the knowledge we will advance sometime in the future, even with the step backs. Luckily both Adkins and Cortese can see the writing on the wall and have time enough to do something. Just one creative and one for pace and that team will be more than good enough to support them.

I am surprised no one picked up on this before, but that €15m net comes out to €24.4m gross when you take into account agent, player and Penarol add ons. I don't believe we went in offering €15m gross, which shaves down to €10.5m net. That's a hell of a lot of money for Saints and Bologna has always referenced the net figure. This just shows how difficult it is to buy in players who will make a difference to a team. Not even sure you can class Ramirez as being that grade of player but as close as we have come.

The "interest" relayed to Buttner a month ago scupperred our deal with him. (not many would turn down Man U ) Then, when they were ready, Man U finalised the deal within hours, hardly giving the Press time to speculate Regards "Idiot" Good job we both support Saints, otherwise you could get hostile on here Buttner knew of ManU interest before he spoke to Saints. As he commented at the time, first team football was very important in the decision. He chose Saints knowing he could be back up to Evra for this season. With his options running down he has now decided to take that option, clearly as a squad player not first team.

It's reassuring to see this although I don't believe for a minute Adam is being mischievous, he is just not in confidence with either Cortese or Adkins and some of the things going on has left him scratching his head. One of the most courteous presenters I have met and little political agenda in most ways he goes about his work. Cortese has big issues with his nerves to the extent his wife wants him out of the house as soon as possible on a matchday. Now if it is upsetting your wife / family to that extent, just imagine what this will do to Adkins. I can easily imagine Cortese will have said things in the heat of the moment that he regrets but just as with his wife, I don't believe he is looking for a divorce. In taking this action against Adam he is trying to protect his relationship with Adkins. He does not want Adkins to believe that there is more to this and create a gulf between the two of them. Something I believe that developed between Pardew and Cortese for partly the same reasons, never to be repaired. Without a doubt this is a fault in Cortese and he deals with it the best he can. The strain exerted by the run in to last season, I imagine escalated this to unprecedented levels. Hence Adkins found it difficult to understand fully and handle the emotions after finally securing promotion. I believe that Cortese would give Adkins another chance next season if he believed Adkins was not damaged goods and capable of getting out of the NPC again. When Cortese increased Adkins contract to 5+ years just a few months after his appointment, I am not sure if we were even in the top 6 at the time. But Cortese recognised this was the relationship he was looking for even at that early stage and backed his man. I am sure there has been the odd disagreement between Cortese and Adkins (nothing like with Pardew) but Adkins has been 100% behind the direction from the top and carried this out well. If we fail It will be the responsibility of both Cortese and Adkins in that coming about, something I would fully expect him to eventually own up to. Then make the choice which is best for the club as he felt he did when retaining Pardew following his direct disobedience over cup games. I don't see a trace of the misgivings Adkins had at the end of last season, so I would imagine they have a better understanding of the problem. With Adkins being such a rational guy and not known for going up in smoke very minute, we stand a chance of it all working out.

Pretty certain Bologna want to sell and the consequences if the sale is left to the January window or later may not favour Bologna at all. The player and the team is going to be unsettled and the value will be dropping as time goes by. Not many clubs like dealing in the January window, especially for the big amounts. We have a couple of weeks for this dance to play out but not sure Cortese will still be playing by then. There was obviously some sort of tentative agreement with Bologna, otherwise no need to start negotiations afresh. I find it difficult to understand how the player can be owned by more than one party, something I thought FIFA outlawed? But if you hand over a large wedge and find subsequent difficulties, that would be a dangerous exposure. If anything it looks like Bologna are slightly desperate to sell now but the President wants to show off his poker skills to the fans. Just does not make sense as there is little doubt the money will be paid when agreed. Bologna will purchase new on a similar agreement and no real ripples left over. I know nothing like all the details but find it very difficult to believe this just comes down to the timing of the payments as proposed. If it were me I would be walking just because of that strong smell of fish!

Utter, utter ******. If there is one thing you can fault Lowe for here is that it was in giving satchel face too much funds in the January window in trying to keep us up.So much so that we were in severe financial difficulty following relegation that Crouch had to go for a good price, leaving us with that measly £90k. Just look at the players we brought in to avoid relegation. Quasie, Redknappm Barnard, Davenport and Camara costing £0.75M just for is short loan. Not to mention we still had offers on the table for Dawson and Reid at Forest up to the very end. Just go and compare that with the mighty tactician that was Bryan Robson and figure out how we got tucked up like a kipper? Satchel face was ashamed to be at Saints and wish he never made the move from the first day. Spurred into the position by his lovers tiff with Mandaric, then shining like a beetroot with embarrassment when introduced to the press and a Saints scarf.

Over interference in the playing side. If you are going bankrupt and you insist certain players cannot be played because we can't afford their bonuses, that's what he's meant to do. When you are paying millions for an Academy and insist on having a route to the first team for those players, that's just basic logic. Lowe never got involved in these matters on that level unless it was financially under lined. His asset was getting the right people into the right positions and then giving them the freedom to make it a success. Before Lawrie left he brought the back up to the first team to it's knees. Leaving Lowe to have to build from scratch, who went away and studied what was successful, listened wisely to the right people then let the appointments do what they were paid for. All those people we have had at the Academy that have gone on to star elsewhere do not have one bad word to say about Lowe, just praise. In a lot of the good characteristics, Lowe and Cortese are two peas from the same pod. It would not surprise me if he's working to a blueprint left over by Lowe. With the added benefit of money and without the need to open his mouth every other minute you get what we have now.