bungle

Great to see that the EFL "Whole Game Solution" is now off the table (due to the FA refusing to countenance midweek FA Cup ties as the norm). EFL really have seemed to have no clue throughout this entire process. This diabolical competition is one facet - but now with the whole game solution off the table perhaps this tournament will be reformed back to including just teams in League One and League Two. An embarrassment to the club that we accepting the invite, but hopefully we'll be put out of our misery by not having to compete next year.

The competition is an embarrassment, and hopefully it'll be ended after just one season. The best way of achieving that is to show there is no fan interest. I shan't be bothering to attend on Wednesday night - and neither should anyone else. If you enjoy watching the youngsters progress, go to one of the U23 league games. Have to assume that the poster who thinks this is more important than Europa League is on a massive wind up.

I remember when this forum was all fields.

A thoroughly good guy. A real pleasure to have made his acquaintance watching Saints, always good for a natter. RIP.

Correct. Bring back the aubergine, I say.

There is a bit of a mix...obviously those guys in Denmark were amusing, having not started singing anything before starting to moan endlessly. There do seem to be a view people trying to start songs, but there is less and less take up (even OWTS yesterday was a pile of crap more often than not). I'm not sure what the answer is, which is why I ended with a question, but some relevant points do seem to be reserved seats (which means singers can't gather together) and lack of decent songs to sing. I would agree there are plenty of whingers that have never tried to start a song and then end up moaning. But it's not as easy as just to say "just start one, then"....because even the ones that are started seem to have fewer people joining in with them. And to Gammon Cheeks: lol.

A wall of silence from the 2700 Saints fans yesterday. Incredibly frustrating when we were on top (if not performing brilliantly), and some real vocal support could have made a difference. Other than Midtjylland at home, I make that every single game this season that we have been out sung by the opposition and, like yesterday, that hasn't been because the opposition fans are particularly loud. It seems over the last couple of seasons that while numbers travelling have gone up, the amount of chanting has gone well down. Not great at home either, and Man Utd fans will embarrass us next Sunday (as per). What can be done about it?

I chap called Gregg Easterbrook wrote a book about this, called "The Progress Paradox" - e.g., why everyone feels worse while everything is getting better. Would like to read it - read one of his other books, Sonicboom, on globalisation and capitalism, which was excellent.

Well, I'm not an academic. In fact, I live in Cardiff - an incredibly ethnically diverse city, home of the first Mosque built in the UK. I've lived in Bath and Dorset prior, both places that have a lack of ethnic diversity. Years of underinvestment in national infrastructure (in particular in relation to housing) are nothing to do with immigration - and more to do with bad government. While, as I highlighted, there might be wage pressure among unskilled workers (which I would tackle with better education), increased immigration is likely to drive up standards of living for almost everyone and will make us better off as a nation. The only argument for reducing it, is if you personally want to be poorer, you want everyone to be poorer and you want reduced public services.

There is huge swathes of evidence that migrants are an economic benefit. Indeed, we'd be in a bad place if we had migrants queueing at Dover trying to get to France...the fact people want to get here is a success story. Evidence shows that migrants end up paying more tax than natives, they create more businesses (and therefore jobs) and they create demand in the economy, purchasing additional goods and services that create....you've guessed it...more jobs. If there is one group that evidence suggests might see a negative from increased immigration, it's the unskilled workforce, who may see competition push wages down (slightly) or see them lose jobs. However, I don't think the 'solution' to that is therefore to pull up the drawbridge and make our entire country poorer as a result. The solution is to improve education, both for our children, but also adult education and providing new skills for our workforce.

This whole thread is depressing. But rather than go through all of it and highlight that, I instead am going to link to this article from Sam Bowman of the Adam Smith Institute (a free market think tank): http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/why-we-should-let-mediterranean-refugees-come-to-work-in-britain/ The banal and pointless right-wing/left-wing debate has so many inaccuracies it is untrue. I would consider myself classical liberal, and welcome free market economics. Therefore, I am a firm believer in free movement of people, because free markets don't work without free movement of people. The Tories seem to want a free market, but without free movement. Labour want free movement, but without the free market to do with it. Both positions are utterly head in the sand. Let us welcome more refugees and economic migrants, and let them work here. We will all be better off.

Some of these are good. But, sadly, they will never get sung due to **** fans. "Our new foreign striker, he comes from abroad. He comes from abroad, he comes from abroad, our new foreign striker, he comes from abroad." "Na-na na-na, na-na-na na na naa, insert name here, name here, insert name here" "Wesingreallyfast, wesingreallyfast, homeorawayitdoesn'tmatterwhoweplay, wesingreallyfast"

I'll be in the bar.

Yes - it's a ballache but understandable. They were probably caught out by the amount of abuse of the system for Vitesse, both in terms of non-attendance (not sure quite how many empty seats there were) and people buying for others, meaning some of those on 7-9 aways would have missed out. I think, in hindsight, they were probably wrong to claim to be making a link between that game and attendance at future Europa League games. With such a cheap ticket it was worth purchasing even if you had no chance of going. I'm surprised they've said the same about Midtjylland, but with the collection process with photo ID it really means there is no point buying if you can't attend. Is there a better system? Probably only a points-based one which would assign ST holders and members points, meaning that a member who does a lot of home and away in theory could get above a ST holder with no aways in the pecking order. That doesn't get rid of the abuse of any loyalty system, mind. Only ID with collection can do that. Maybe, like England I believe, a certain % of allocation could be made available via ballot to broaden the pool? As we have discussed elsewhere, clearly it was the very public nature of the abuse of the system that has caused them to act in this way. It had to be gutting if you were a ST holder with 8 aways to miss out and see what was happening. People will always try and abuse systems (I'm fairly certain no-one can hold their hands up to not trying to circumnavigate rules for something or other, even if not Saints tickets), but the very public nature of it will have caused the club to act. I think the club have broadly tried to do the right thing - but certainly they've been consistent with the last 4 or 5 seasons. Seeing ST holders saying they are annoyed because the want to buy the ticket for Midtjylland to give to a mate is bloody frustrating, so they've taken care of that. Likewise, I'm not sure how those who booked flights the moment the draw was made deserve much sympathy...a cursory glance easily informed you on the rough size of the away allocation - it certainly doesn't make you any more deserving that someone with a ST and more aways on their record (although I suppose selling out all the flights is a good way of preventing them from going!).

Or people that subverted the system for the last round and now don't want others to?

The song for Eljero Elia was better. As is the song for Juanmi.

Might be they take off the supporters club allocations, too. But - yes - a decent number of complementaries.

Rather than moaning on an internet forum I went to 18 aways last season, so I have a guaranteed ticket. Will be avoiding the fanzone like the plague, too.

**** off, sunshine.

New song required: http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/06082014-statement-appointment-of-director-1808958.aspx

Ruuuupert Lowe; Ceeee.....Eeeeee....Oh. Ruuuupert Lowe; Ceeee.....Eeeeee....Oh. (Can we have retro board songs?)

Still no information as far as I can work out, and we were supposed to announce it by 30th September. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2451738/Away-Fans-Fund-What-Premier-League-clubs-spending-200k-on.html

http://fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/premier-league-away-fans-fund The PL this year have introduced a fund to "assist" away fans. It's all a bit paltry, but nonetheless it is something as the FSF say and is at least a step forward in the realisation that away fans actually add to the atmosphere of the whole thing. However, I have absolutely no idea what Saints are doing with the money. Apparently they have to announce it by 30th September, but I can only assume there has been no consultation. Anyone have any idea. In my view, we should copy Liverpool and discount money from the ticket price, as this would benefit all Saints travelling fans.

Win!

Now it has regular tickets, but didn't charge me a booking fee!