Saint Fan CaM

Yes if we’re found to be complicit in the viewing of their 1st team training, we can expect a sanction - probably a fine because money rules and there’s precedent. However, even if the evidence does implicate SFC, there are several mitigating facts that must be taken into account and I’m sure they will… a. The alleged ‘spy’ was reportedly not filming a 1st team training session and was spotted at a location on public ground. There is no evidence that he breached private property. b. There may be a question over his employment status with Saints and whether he was indeed under specific instruction. c. The EFL rules are ambiguous with regard to the 72 hour ‘cut-off’ and there are no accompanying sanctions stated (as you say). There is likely to be evidence that many other clubs use ‘scouting’ as a method of gaining advance information too - it is not a practice isolated to Saints and under oath would Boro be able to say they’ve never done it? d. The manner in which Middlesbrough have attempted to pervert the course of the tribunal is highly questionable and detrimental to the duties of what was supposedly an independent review. In and of itself, this action (including the media shitshow that’s happened as a result of their leaks) has potentially sullied Saints chances in the final - if we lose the final, Saints should mount a reverse challenge against Middlesbrough with a push for stringent sanctions against them. Possibly even legal action if it can be shown GDPR rules for example were broken. e. The evidence submitted by Middlesbrough appears to be flaky at best and is highly unlikely to demonstrate unequivocally that their chances in the semi’s were affected adversely as a result of whatever happened. Quite the opposite in fact.

On the face of it I would agree, but let’s say for arguments sake that the ‘spying’ started 72 hours and 10 minutes prior to the first semi starting and stopped 9 minutes later. That’s not cheating - that’s playing by the rules, irrespective of whether Boro might claim we’ve gained an advantage and its morally wrong. What if the same scenario had happened but the ‘spying’ stopped 11 minutes later? It could be argued both ways that rules had still not been broken if the exact wording of said rules did not make it clear, again irrespective of the ‘morality’ of the action. That’s part of the context, along with a clear understanding of the employment status of the alleged ‘spy’. That’s what the tribunal needs to establish of course and my point was to observe that a simple ‘yes they spied’ or ‘no they didn’t’ just won’t cut it.

See, for me the whole premise of it being ‘morally repugnant’ plays inappropriately into Boro’s narrative. Let’s remember that the regs state that spying is unacceptable <72 hours before the teams play against each other. This in itself suggests the practice of ‘spying’ is perfectly acceptable and indeed accepted outside of 72 hours. So who’s to say it’s not a widespread practice across the entire EFL? This has to be at least a part of the context talked about.

Cannot believe the EFL would risk a sanction that involves removing Saints from the competition - would be completely unfair and open to legal challenges. Precedence IF found guilty after looking at the full evidence would be a fine commensurate with the issue. Adding some form of points deduction, even delayed, would be disproportionate too. My feeling is there are two key unknowns that will have a bearing on the outcome - was the lad in full employ of Saints and under instruction, and secondly, has convincing evidence been provided that any training information gained was substantive enough to gain an advantage. That’s why Saints have insisted they need to investigate ‘context’ rather than just admitting to the charge as Leeds/Bielsa did. I guess we can all speculate - the next couple of days will reveal much.

I’m not able to attend whatever the date/time, so hey ho.

Fair play, but as I’ve already explained, it was said in the spirit of reverse psychology…hence the winky emoji. 🤭

I claim the old reverse psychology thing! 🤣🤣🤣

Credit to Boro - good team well managed. Just lacking that quality at the end. As for Saints, deserved in the end. Think we can do it.

On balance we deserve this

Yeeeeesssss!!!! Charles does it!!!

Oh shit - Sarmiento on. Match winner.

Please not pens - need a goal very much here. We’re on top - just pull the trigger guys…take chance.

Need Fellows to get out of defence.

Peretz has another clearance fuckup. Another yellow for Boro.

They’ll have a little resurgence of fitness after coming back on, so keeping it tight in the first five mins of ET is essential.