david in sweden

I still don't see the criticism you've given Avenue Saint, Turkish ? At the end of every game ....every team manager engages in some conjecture about... what might have happened if ...... Atkins did on Saturday......IF? ....IF?.....IF?... and I think that Avenue Saints (and probably I too,) have written something similar.... since 5pm on Saturday. If you tell us that you will never again put down your hypothetical ideas / thoughts in a thread, then say so ....and I'll make a note of the date and time because we all write such things from time to time. I read you a lot ...(it's difficult not to when someone has over 12,000 posts to his name)....and agree with a lot that you write...., but IMO IF fit (another hypothetical).. I would have played Boruc at Goodison ..........if for no other reason than common sense says - in such a fixture ...an international goalie, with several hundred league games behind him is a better choice than a kid whose played half a season in L1 and had a handful of relatively easy games where he didn't have to break sweat........I think Gazzaniga is a v.g. prospect, but keeping a clean sheet against a lowly-placed Championship side doesn't automatically qualify you to play away against a side second in the Prem. with one of the best home record in the year. Who can say that Everton wouldn't have scored if we'd had another goalie there.......or that IF Rodriguez and Ramirez had scored ....the result might have been different.....but Nigel Adkins did after the game. Avenue Saints (and I... for that matter) most likely had the same thought....didn't you?

agreed !

well I think this is common sense....and he isn't wrong. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. Did you expect a lot of bu**-sh*t like blah, blah, ....we should have won ? Everton, Arsenal and Man. City have the best home records in the Prem. based on 2012 games ..and we haven't won there in donkey's years.....and many times come away with a much worse scoreline. I'm sure no-one thinks it's waste of time to try and win at these grounds. Adkins post match comments were; we need to concentrate on getting wins at home as " we might only get 4 wins away this season". Absolutely right!.. but if we have the mindset of going to win every game ...we may well get those 4 wins .and perhaps even more. This is the Prem. - and this team are new to it. Let's not complain every time we lose an away game to such opposition.

I agree with all that logic......but if midfielders get turned into extra defenders, then we get end up getting pushed back into our own penalty area for most of the match. Everyone comes back to defend set pieces and corners, but we must score goals - if we are to win any games at all.

That sounds logical I agree, but human nature says that some players may have a lucky/ unlucky number, South American players like 10....English strikers like 9... and Saints players cherish the 7 shirt. Lallana seems to like 20 (!) .........why ? If it's an issue.. I don't think there's any harm in asking .... (some second choice goalkeepers have had 13 ), but some outfielders might be superstitious about that.

OK . Re-reading your original point (quite valid, I thought,).... it wasn't immediately obvious to me that you weren't criticising our full backs.

Everyone makes errors of judgement ....and we made one by not signing the extra defender before the window closed. Then everyone seemed to comment on Arsenal's (supposed) £4 million bid for Luke Shaw ..If indeed there was one ??? When we started the season, we still had Harding ....and Seaborne on the mend, Fox was first choice - so (on paper).... we had FOUR left backs. Fox has had a poor start and Shaw (sadly) has been ill ......and/or injured, too? (not sure?). Dan Harding has gone permanently and Ryan Dickson doesn't seem to be in the running at all....... Recent rumours that Seaborne will go out on loan.......and Yeovil (supposedly) wanted to loan Dickson, but couldn't afford his salary ! Clyne.....who isn't really a leftie seems no worse than Fox although interestingly.. they've both managed to score a goal. Richardson isn't the worst RB we've had in recent seasons, but Jack Cork's injury rules out a lot of alternative defensive shuffles..... that we might have used. Our alternatives are very few, and it comes down to Jack Stephens and Ben Reeves.....both excellent young talents (at their level)....but untried in the League and not the ideal choices to put up against the likes of the strikers we've seen already in opposition sides. It's case of " grin and " .....unless we can find an experienced veteran interantional .....who is OOC, who can help plug the gap until January.

wow hang on guys ...this is supposed to be about Tadanari Lee and Jack Cork....see OP .....let's try and get back to Cheese on Toast's original question ... I'm sorry that my " passing comment" has created so much conjecture.....maybe they weren't freak injuries/ or training injuries ? ...so what ? ......so back to Lee and Cork then .....? your thoughts....

Well...according to my info.(right /wrong) . they were in training and -not game time ?....OR ..? Guly trampled on his foot and broke (something) in the Spring....and he was out for 4-5 months.... .....and damaging / breaking an arm is surely a lot less commonplace than say ...and ankle or knee injury - isn't it?

We need to play different sides at home and away..with different formations. Away games will be a problem for many sides - not just us. Cork was an ever present last season (well almost) .....so he should be a regular - when properly " Saints fit " and play at alternative RB or change player for Steve Davis. JWP is a great prospect, but to will break his spirit, if he continues to play in a losing side, he should be rested more often but come off the bench instead when needed. Lee has been the victim of two "freak injuries".....when fit he should play in all home games......and see how he develops. He should start and (according to success) be changed out with Punch or JayRod.....and change the formation to suit. It can be seen that many sides learn what went wrong in the first 45 and don't need to wait and have an after-match inquest. If we are winning at half time, they will counter quickly - we must do the same. If we are losing, we need a change formation / players much earlier 46 mins. - and not after 70 mins.

Given our expectations, I suppose that after three seasons of beating (most) of our opposition, we'd like to have thought that we'd continue, BUT... ......we've seen that the difference between to the top of the Championship ......and the bottom of the Prem...... is much more than just three League places. ......we've seen that (most) of the loyal players we had in L1 just can't make it in the Prem.......even on their best form, and more will have to go..... ......we've seen that having bought some very good (young) prospects..... it'll take a bit of time before they can fit into the jigsaw of a stable, winning side. and finally we've seen that our manager is not infallible, but neither is he stupid. He's made mistakes, and will learn by them.....and so will the team, and they will improve. ....there are quite a few other sides in this league who will come away from games at; Etihad, The Emirates and Goodison Park without any points this season....we just happened to be the first.

He'd be crazy NOT to. Having got to the Prem. (in double quick time)... we've seen that most of last season's squad can't cut it in the Prem. (no surprise to many of us )..... Now that we've seen it don't work, the next stage is a new defence. But Cortese is a realist. Being in the Prem. is worth (according to varying reports)..... £60 - £90 million a year He must put in more investment. I don't expect him to spend another £30 mill......but securing survival is the number one priority. Relegation would be unthinkable after the efforts of the last three seasons. I don't believe he would sack NA, but if he did ....he'd have to give (a new manager) just as much to buy in the help we need.

I don't know where you got that idea Turkish ! .I think you've drawn some strange conclusions...(?)...I've read his post three times and I don't see that he's said that ... I agree with (others) comments about Gazzaniga. YES he's a great prospect. I'm pleased to say - (certainly better than Butland on current showing )....however, two Cup games against lower league opponents .and a couple of good saves in the Villa game isn't good preparation for a game at Goodison Park against a strong side 2nd in the table. I don't know who wants to blame for him which goals, but his positional sense for the 2nd and 3rd goals was very poor.....even though he did make a couple of good saves...I'd have liked Boruc to have been there instead.

of course JP may well be injured, but now that JayRod has started to score... at last , it would be a downer to his confidence NOT to have played him, however all things considered, I'd like to have seen a bit more muscle in midfield . Pity that JWP has started off his career in a side that gets beaten almost every game.....hopefully it'll be better when Jack Cork (and Schneiderlin) return.

John Terry(!)....he seems to be out of favour with almost everyone else. I think he'd be... (fictionally-speaking)..... a good recruit for our back line. ....just be sure to keep him away from the WAGS.

for three seasons, we were a very good side capable of beating most sides. BUT the gap between the Championship and the Prem. is more than just the three places from clubs who were promoted. There is a huge difference in quality, skill aand experience. More than half the sides in the Prem. were there 7 years ago when we were relegated....and some of them even longer ...now we have to learn fast. By now SFC has realised what is need to come to terms with this challenge. Looking at the other clubs around us; QPR, and Norwich (though promoted a year ago) are amongst the strugglers, too........as are Reading....and I don't think Wham will turn out much better. ......but more interesting IMO ......is the Newcastle Chairman's decision to give Alan Pardew (sacked by Saints)...an 8 year extension to his contract ! Thats what I call .. visionary planning. Of course Nigel Adkins is the right man .....we just need patience...... and a bit more investment in January. Everton and Arsenal are amongst the clubs who haven't won much in the last 7 years but they have kept faith with their managers......why shouldn't we ?

it was an open question, which I didn't know the answer to... kpt. Re-read the OP .........if you bothered to read it in the first place.

....but Alpine......just because a player is unknown to YOU, doesn't mean that they are no good ...does it ? Football is a world game nowadays and we have players from 4 continents at present, and I don't think even you would say that any of them was rubbish ...or would you ? Losing games is an inevitability for most Prem. clubs, and after everyone bleating about the tough fixtures at the start of the season, we've just lost to a team that has gone second in the table......... surely ..even you....... would admit that it's a difficult start.so far.

yes thank you Vectis, that was what I meant.... I know we can't " loan-in", but we are allowed to " loan out" players to lower league teams ..CORRECT ?

we know that the transfer deadline was Aug 31st /or was it Sept.1st.? ........but what is the deadline for loan transfers.....I'm sure it isn't allowed right through till Janaury ?...OR ....?

what about his team selection! - no way will KD play ...and what happened to Adam Lallana ..Martin ?

Lawro ?.....maybe he is a nice guy really, but he's so opinionated, and I just love it when he gets it WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've noticed some journalists try to suck up to big name clubs with by posting " sympathetic, even apologetic " stories, and in the last week there have been two...about Everton. Most write-ups I've seem to suggest that.....we somehow cheated and went behind Everton's back and implying that " we stole " Artur Boruc from under their noses. as far as I understand it : He trained with Everton for a week, they couldn't make their minds up and weren't prepared to offer him an acceptable contract, and we stepped in. Nice signing Nicola ! Now we have the " Lambert was on my radar " " where we read that David Moyes had " spotted " Rickie Lambert... years ago, but didn't bother to sign him, and that we were lucky he didn't because we now have him...MORE FOOL THEM, I say ! IF I were David Moyes (a manager I have some respect for)...I'd be ashamed to admit that my club had missed two great opportunities and sympathy does nothing to cover the embarrassment. IF JUSTICE WERE SEEN TO BE DONE..... we'd select Artur today ...and he'd play a blinder, save a penalty and keep a clean sheet .....and Rickie Lambert.... will score our winning goal !