david in sweden

now that sounds a bit more realistic, but wait for the bombarding posters who already have us back in the Championship, after losing ......to the three of the best sides ...in Europe .

part of last season's success....and a while before that, was the great service that the strikers got from.... overlapping full backs who could center well into the box. I did see some stat. that said Fox gave 11 assists last season...and the figure for Richardson was not far behind that. Suddenly, we're saying (someone) is a good full back because he can attack, but a bad defender when he gets caught upfield, or doesn't have the pace to track back and tackle a fast-moving winger. ! ...If he's a defender, shouldn't he be rooted in his own penalty area all the time ? (someone suggested) .and NEVER cross the halfway line ! Well ..we had decades of full backs like that, and that wasn't any better then. I really don't know what we are supposed to expect from our defenders. Much of the criticism of the goals in the threads above - was placed on our midfield players !..and not the defenders. We don't mind when they put pin-point crosses in to the box....and someone scores, but criticise them like h*ll ...when they can't tackle back. Anyone who suggests we were bad on saturday because we couldn't take care of Ox should think back a bit to when he was in our first team. He was almost unplayable then, and he's even better now. Present day formations rely on strikers dropping back to defend.. . and full backs who can attack. It doesn't always work..even Rickie conceded an own goal last season whilst trying to help defend. When playing against sides like Arsenal ....it is always going to be difficult, the number of times we've won at Highbury (during our prev. 27 year Prem. spell) ... can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

I'll tell you after Saturday ..... but if we've been saying is right ....it won't !

..at LEAST three teams.........

this..!

We must put this nonsense into perspective. Three of the last four matches we've played have been against teams who hardly lost a dozen games between them last season ........thank God we don't have Chelsea next week. As we have seen in many seasons past, the actual difference between Championship and Premier League .is more than just moving from 21st/22nd /23rd in the land ...and just moving up three places. if those three matches had been played in October, November and December...the results may well have been the same .or worse.....but taking them all at one time... and being so critical is just stupid !

I seem to have read thoughts like this for the last umpteen seasons DPS. A full back is " no-good " ..if he can't overlap once in a while and put in a decent centre to help bolster the attacks... BUT what happens when he's caught out of position, and can't get back..or is beaten for pace by a fast winger / striker ?...and it results in a goal ? To me... .it sounds like the criticism levelled at every full back we've ever had .....especially after a big defeat. Gareth Bale....surely one of the most promising British player to grace the Prem in the last 5 years was deemed to be great in overlapping / attacking moves , but not a very good defender....(!). So what's your choice. If you dare tackle a fast player anywhere near the penalty area, it's either gonna be a penalty...or at worst...a dangerously-placed free kick. Podolski's goal on Saturday might come into that category. Nathaniel Clyne is a very promising (as yet uncapped) player, who like.... most of the rest of our squad ....has played most of his (short) career in the Championship, so how come he suddenly look so poor against international strikers and very experiencd, some of whom have even played in previous World Cups? If you are expecting ..criticism / comment / call it what you will ..about Clyne ..please supply a short list of good full backs who hardly ever get beaten ..and tackle faultlessly.. so we have a yardstick to go by.

...don't think he looks " Saints fit " yet !

..isn't that what they mean when people say " Fox in the box "?

....apart from the " I want to play in the Prem. bit ". I think we offered him twice what he was getting at Bologna (maybe that has something to do with it ?) Tottenham....it seems ..were a bit more stingy when they wanted to buy him. I hope he punishes them in the best manner possible when we play them next month.

A very nice obit. with some colourful illustrations from David Bull....who I wish could be persuaded to write his own book of remembrances. His penmanship can be seen throughout many of the Saints publications and I'm sure he has a wealth of Saints stories to tell that have never seen print. What about it, David ?

I'm glad you added that line at the end....better to say ...our defence has let in 14 goals this season. After Saturday, we can add TWO own goals to the stats, but my old axiom has always been a goalie is only as good as the defence in front of him...and they have all been wanting so far this season..... NOTE; when we signed Peter Shilton (somebody dare to tell me HE wasn't top class either)....in August 1982, we conceded 18 goals in his first 7 games, and we managed only 3 clean sheets in the first 16 games. ! (and they weren't all his fault either.) I wouldn't class Kelvin Davis as a good Prem. goalie, but there must be a lot worse, but who play behind a good defence. I'm waiting to make a note of all the teams who put two goals past MU and City this season..I think it will be a very short list. My real complaint is not about KD performances, but the fact that we didn't buy in experienced cover / a challenger... in the summer.

good example of a good captain...BUT he came to us aged about 30 .....with 76 England caps under his belt...hardly a good comparison - is it ?

few people come on here and doubt Adam's ability or his devotion to Saints. At present, he is the longest-serving player on the books (joined aged 12)...and has played the most Saints games for an outfield player in the present squad (c.170 games) on that count alone he qualifies. The captain's job is not just about experience, but also he is " the manager's rep. on the field ", or should be, and someone who commands the respect of the players and the confidence of the fans. All responsibility is stressful, and he can't be blamed if - as an imminent expectant father - he doesn't shine in every game, but also what did he think of his team-mates when they went in 1-4 down at HT? I have watched dozens of Saints captains over the past 50 years...some take to the role fairly easily, whilst others never quite adjust. I can recall the 60's captain Tony Knapp who rarely seemed to raise his voice, yet was a commanding figure on the field and a good strategist off it. On the other hand, Jason Dodd's voice ..could be heard in the Dell car park - even in a match with a capacity crowd. How you encourage and handle players isn't about how loud you speak to them, but how you speak to them - when you do. I think - in time - Adam will become a great captain.. YES, he still has a lot to learn, but you don't meet too many complete beings who are barely 24 y.o. Give him time.

as it seems fairly clear that with the present start . We're hardly likely to be pushing for a Euro spot this season....survival is the main priority this season ...whilst the " new look side play themselves in". Logically bottom spot with less than 10 points by the end of October would be ominous, but look at Wigan last season . They were dead and buried at New Year, but strung together 7 wins in the last 9 games ...and survived. I hope we don't get that desperate........ but there are still 34 games left...... and 40 points is usually safe enough.

that was my though too ....at the time but now, we'll have to wait a few games to see that one come to fruition....

well conceived post ....at 3.51 in the morning - do you ever sleep ? Looking through the whole post, It's difficult to disagree with anything in the first part. As for individual comments. Considering that half the selected side were playing L1 football two years ago, they 've done their best (and a few have played their best - and been found out.) Naive ? - YES..a bit. I think that some of them were over-rated last season, but I don't blame NA for playing them, but SOMEONE (maybe not him directly) has to answer why ..after we clearing out those defenders (Jaidi, Harding, Martin - and leaving us only with the untried Seaborne )... .we didn't get in adequate replacements. That was naive. ....as was the lack of adequate cover for KD. He's not the world's best, but I still think he will come good (a few clean sheets will prove that) ...but what happens if he's injured ? (God forbid) ...without an experienced back-up... it'd be hard on Gazzaniga to have to cover for more than a few games against some of the Prem strikers around at present. I'm just glad Brum didn't accept our bid for Butland, he's not much better judging by results. ......

It's obvious that Cortese was at an advantage to buy Ramirez from an Italian club...I don't know how an English manager might have handled the situation?.... but whether a player is from Switzerland, Holland or Japan doesn't really matter - if they are the real thing. Good players exist in every country and it shows vision and ambition to buy such talents. One thing I haven't seen highlighted about all of our new signings ...(aside from their apparant youth and Steve Davis excluded) .is that they have some sortof international experience - even at a junior level. Normally buying in such players gives you time to integrate them into the normal team selection ....in a successful side....and now ....at the highest level, but half the side are from our L1 days ! Our real problem now is to find the balance - and quickly! Getting a few points on the board will give us a breathing space. Another 4 games without a convincing win will create real problems. We may be playing attractive football.... at times, but without a result at the end of 95 minutes, we'll need a few miracles if we are to avoid still being bottom club by New Year.

These are the bits of your post I agree with ...although I don't think Ramirez is going to be called a waste of money.....rather the opposite. However, I do think a lot of extra attention was paid to the process of signing him...... in preference to signing more defenders. Since Prem. Day 1..I have read that star talent Luke Shaw was ill / injured ?.......we know that Danny Fox was injured......and didn't look 100% yesterday either...and that of our only two experienced CBs Jos Hooiveld (IMO the better of the two) is now injured. Thank goodness that at least we signed Yoshida. I 'm not looking to sack anyone now .or in the immediate future, (this is Adkins team - and IMO only he can make it work). Even Jose Mourinho wouldn't be able to do better with our present squad. Whoever takes the responsibility for failing to sign extra defenders.... now already realises their error.

Playing in front of 60,000 at the Emirates is surely intimidating enough, and we saw the reason why Theo and OX and playing there and not at SMS, and it showed the distance between our two sides. Yesterdays sad (but not totally unexpected result) proves the point that some of us have made many times before .....in that the gap between the top end of the Championship and the Premier League is ENORMOUS.. and not just moving a couple of places further up the ladder. ..and as if I should have to say it again......if we turn around at Christmas in lower part / mid table, and said we'd lost at Man. City, and at Arsenal ..(and allowed one man in a poor MU side to steal the game from us ,)... no-one would raise a murmur. The real test of the quality of this present side ....will be in the next four games ..not the last four..

I'd be interested to start a list of clubs who play; Man City, Man Utd and Arsenal this season ..and see how they compare, maybe we would not be the only ones to come away... pointless ! Judging ANY manager on the results of games against those three teams is totally crazy. It's just our bad luck to get them all in such a short period. Has Adkins made mistakes; YES ..one ot two ......should he be sacked for them?.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!

agreed !

Before deciding that it was a good game NOT to become involved in, I asked myself if Roy Hodgson had even dared to consider picking Adam in front of Tom Cleverly in the fiasco game v. Ukraine. Reading BBC Sportswriter Phil Mc Nulty, who seemed to be asking himself if Cleverly ....who he said " had hardly got his feet under the table at Man.Utd and was being played out of position"....was really the most suitable choice?. .and the fact that he missed the three best chances in the game .why was he selected in front of others?. ...I wondered the same and looked at their playing records to date. Both players are about the same age; Adam 24 , Cleverly 23. ... Adam has already played a remarkable 168 league games scoring 36 goals, although everyone will say they were in a lower league. TRUE Cleverly though, aside from his 13 Prem. apps for MU ....has only accumulated 86 matches whilst on loan to a number of lower league sides.....and managed only 17 goals...also TRUE. I'm not going to pretend that Adam might have scored a hat-trick on his debut, but I'm sure he would have done better with some of the chances that Cleverly squandered so easily. The answer might well be that a player coming through the MU Academy. and gets the nod from Stuart Pearce...gets an automatic step-up to the England squad, whilst even out-performing Cleverly ...by 100% ......Adam will have to fight much harder to attain the same honours. Hopefully SFC may, at last, get a bit more attention from an England manager and Adam get some proper recognition.

I'm sorry that people feel the need to start threads like this. Surely no-one is naive enough to think this will happen ..considering the opposition we've played in the three games so far. Wigan are a much better side this season than where they finished last ....Look at the table for yourself. ...and if every manager whose team loses to Man .City and Man Utd this season is sacked ....we'll have half of the Prem. clubs with new managers before the New Year !