david in sweden

....and before anyone reminds us about that " spare" game... we've already playerd 14 home games....but only 11 away .

Er, sorry ? ..can you say that again...

Hi Fan the Flames...where were you when I started this thread?... #1 the vast majority of people in the previous 233 postings have criticised my comments from the start. Not just a bad day at the office lads, without Lallana to run the midfield we just don't make it , ...and with Barnard the only fit striker on the bench - we don't seem to have many options up front either..... roll on Man.Utd Reserves...next weekend eh ?..maybe they'll be kind to us and leave Rooney and Giggs on the bench...

Exactly right! Having 12, 13, or even 16 players "good enough" to play doesn't always mean they all get on the ptch on the same day. Using them at the opportune moment is the key, and NA isn't afraid to use subs. Every game is different, bringing on young players for the last 30 mins...if you're leading 3-0 , and give them a taste of the action without running your star players into the ground for 95 mins. Mc Menemy was great at this, and the likes Steve Moran who started as a happy-go-lucky, chubby teenager played alongside the likes of Kevin Keegan, Mick Channon and David Armstrong and picked up 10-12 goals a season (once even 21) in what was yester-years Premier League (in the early 1980's). They blossom from playing amongst the regulars. If a game is too finely balanced its often better to stick with those on the park and hope for a breakthrough. Likewise putting an U18 lad as the last name of the bench, doesn't mean we're likely to use him , but is part of the in-schooling process of being with the " big boys". Injuries are a different thing, and if a key player is out, and you don't have a plan C..there's a problem, which is why players like David Connolly (when fit) can come on and win the games for you. Wenger is great with his subs. and giving van Persie a 30 min. run-out and a few goal chances against a tiring CCC side is great for the fans to see and the team to savour. Everyone has to start somewhere but putting on an untried player into a set formation serves no good purpose. It took Guly 8 games on the bench (6 times on as sub) before he found his feet and another half dozen games to start scoring and get a regular place in the start 11. Looking at his time since Sept... he's up amongst the leading scorers, and now thankfully - permanent.

Turkish ! I can't understand your logic. on #184 and #215 ..you say we shouldn't buy for cover, and not anyone who isn't better than what we've got..now you're advocating we buy 3 players from Dagenham and Redbridge (!) ..are they really better that our existing players they would be covering ?

agree 100% Crab Lungs. It's fairly clear that MLT had the clubs best at heart and stood up for the " Pinnacle bid" - even though we now know they sold him a bill of goods with no financing behind it. He wasn't going to have "some unknown foreign outfit no-one had ever heard of, buying up our club and doing G*d knows what with it, and in ignorance of the alternatives many of us agreed with him. I also smelt some behind the scenes skullduggery on the part of the Administrator who went way past his brief in an attempt to favour the Pinnacle camp, by not examining "other bids" closely enough. My first reaction to hearing a SWISS was going to buy our club was surprise and suspicion. In retrospect it was the finest thing that could have happened. However, it's clear that NC was pretty miffed at having his cash on the table offer in May, delayed/ignored/ overlooked in favour of the "other bid" and as I recall there were a lot of hot words from some members of the Pinnacle camp in the intervening period. Net result; the "dislike" of these two men (for each other) is bordering on shameful. Each in their own way are irreplaceable. Cortese is undoubtedly the best Chairman /owner this club has ever seen, (administration-wise) and (when successful will have access to huge sums from sources to finance the future.) MLT is one of the best-loved players of the last 25 years, and has a special place in many hearts. It needs a patient, diplomatic person to take them both to dinner and heal the wounds over a good bottle of something.

well at least we've got one signing ... now that Guly is permanent. let's wait and see about anymore - shall we ?

I wrote the #1 item on this thread on Tuesday morning....a lot of people have criticised the post, though a few have agreed with it. Whether you agree..or not... I offer this extra comment quoted from todays Saints OS. QUOTE : ..it's not just about 11 players its about dealing with injuries, the suspensions and importantly... the dip in form. We've got good competition for places which in turn creates high standards on the training ground, so people are pushing to be involved... End of QUOTE. Nigel Adkins SFC 20 january 2011 I don't believe that he's been reading this thread but as I got it right for once ..I rest my case. David in Sweden.

Anders Svensson ..(signed by Stuart Gray - he didn't do everything wrong.).. career best decision has been playing him " in the hole " ...(ala Lallana nowadays) ....ignored by Strachan who wanted him to play as a defensive midfielder... ....was given good run under Sturrocks short reign..... ....was allowed to leave when his contract was up... ....now age 34 ..captain of Elfsborg in Swedish (Prem.) League... ....played his one hundred and umpteenth game for Sweden - on a "warm-up " tour of South Africa .....and even scored the winning goal.... under-rated? .....absolutely.

OK Turkish, we'll have to... agree to disagree ... on this one. DC I just want us out of this division, and if we continuing losing Lallana, and can't depend on using Connolly etc etc , I'd go for "over kill " ...at least until the end of May. but here's something to dwell on .. QUOTE : It's not just about 11 players, it's dealing with injuries and suspensions and .... ......players who are a little off-form... ....creating competition for places..... end of QUOTE Nigel Adkins Saints OS january 20th 2011 I rest my case. DC

Three weeks gone and I'm still holding my breath...

Despite the phenomenal amount of criticism you get Alpine, I often find myself agreeing with many threads, (maybe I don't always lecture people in such direct terms as you do on occasions) however, . it may be semantics but whether we buy -or not- isn't just down to our optimistic / pessimistic natures. I prefer to think of it as being ...realistic....sh*t happens and often at the most unexpected times. Buying in more talent is an insurance policy. Look at our purchase of Richardson, arguably the best rught back available at the time, we buy him and he is injured in the first practice and out for nearly three months. When Lallana was out in August , we went 5games without even scoring ..coincidence?. Barnard (present legal problems aside) got MOM rave reviews at the start of season without even scoring, then red-carded and out another 3 games. and then it wasn't until the away game at Notts County that he started getting goals. We cannot afford major problems like those to occur again when we are on thr run-in for promotion, or some extra play-off games. On this I agree with you, those who describe themselves as "optimists " live in a world where no-one gets injured, red carded or loses form--even if they rightly say - we have a good squad - on paper. The reality is : no-one buys a house or a car - without getting insurance. Buying now is insurance against the unexpected, not just getting second-rate reserves to sit on the bench.

I think you still missed my point NickG it's not about the quality of the striker, but the form they are in. The stats. I quoted prove that - even our best weren't in form all the time. IMHO Lambert is a great striker (at this level certainly) but his form is nowhere near that of last season, but I'm not about to suggest we ditch him...Lots of striker have purple patches when they score in successive games, but others even the best ..can go without scoring for months. Rooney and Owen are two pefect examples, but no-one who looked at their entire career performances would say they were finshed or weren't worth a place in any side. IF we were without Lambert..and / or Barnard - who would we put in the front line in early February.? Buying new players is not about getting "cover to sit on the bench " ..it's an insurance policy against the unexpected and we're still only half way through this season ...!

We are obviously not short of the extra 100K to clinch any deal. There are too many.. IF's with our injured midfielders , and if the worse happens we will be running round like headless chickens on Jan 30th trying to sign ..whoever's left over ..when most of the big deals have been done. Clubs like Swindon, will want to have time to spend the fee from selling Austin on a replacement ...that deal will happen quite soon I'm sure , but will it be us ..or ? I'm not saying that Austin is our best target(I've not seen him play) but the clock ticks fast in the last few days, and we need to have all areas covered for the second half of the season if we are to be certain of going up.

I'm not arguing those figures, (I got the same totals) ...but they are history and offer no guarantees for the second half of the season. Strikers are the most INCONSISTANT players in football- even when fit. Don't believe me..here's a few stats.(from In That Number ) 2001-02 James Beattie had scored 10 goals by mid jan, was injured - missed 11 games and only scored 2 the rest of season. 2000.01 Beattie again scored 10 in 7 weeks upto Dec 31st ...and only once more the rest of the season. 01-02 Marian Pahars (bless him) 9 by New Year ...but only one more to end of season. 1991.92 Alan Shearer (you must recall him) 10 goals by New Year... but only 3 for rest of season. 1987-88 Danny Wallace 10 goals by the end of November but only once more by seasons end. 1965-66 Martin Chivers in promotion season had scored 30 goals by end of Feb. but didn't score again in last 12 games.I know they are all historical but you can find such examples almost every year... The likes of George O'Brien, Ron Davies, Boyer, MacDougall and MLT were fairly consistant but we don't see their like so often. Even if we buy a new striker, there's no saying the existing names will continue to hold their form...or stay injury-free.

I think we'd all agree with that, but he clearly has a long term problem which won't go away ...op. in the summer ?

You cannot ignore suspensions and red cards e.g. Barnard's after which we went 4 games without scoring ! all the others you named have been out for some period through injury already this season.

" cover " or whatever you want to call it is necessary if we are to maintain the momentum, Agreed , there are few players (even in CCC) who are as good as Lallana, so if he's out for any length of time we must hope that Chaplow or A.N.OTHER. will fit the bill. Looking at NA s first 5 games he had Butterfield, Fonte, Seabourne and Harding at the back. Now only Fonte is a "regular" but I'm happy with the alternatives...Richardson, Dickson, Jaidi, Martin. But midfield is another situation.(Despite only ONE goal in his third season - Schneiderlin's in , so too Hammond, AOC, and Puncheon whilst Lallana was injured then also. BUT with AOC being " sold " to every Prem club with big money, and Puncheon still with one boot out of the door ..where is the " cover " there? Therefore we must have at least ONE L1 /CCC quality player in NOW. I'm happy with a front line of Lambert and /or Barnard and /or Guly .....and a fit Connolly. More injuries / or suspensions and we could be in real trouble there, not to mention LB's unfinished business with the judge and jury leaves us open for real problems. So ONE good L1/CCC striker. When people talk about "quality" players we must remember that each division has its own standards, and I wouldn't expect more than half of our present first team to be regulars in CCC ..and even less when we get up to the Prem.

EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED ..to get out of this stupid division. Someone who can put himself about, create havoc in the opposition penalty area and get a few goals into the bargain. Talented, skilful and clever footballers are good to have ..in the Premiership, right now we need someone who can plunder defences in L1 and CCC. Sounds like he's made to measure for us right now.

Junction 9 ...You missed the point of my original post #1 .I wasn't concerned about the 0-0 , I don't think I even mentioned it. What I was concerned about was that with Holmes already out for the rest of the season, Hammond OUT and Lallana OUT ..for an undefined period of time ..and 20+ games still to go...the midfield back-up looks a bit thin to say the least. I think AOC will stay, but Puncheon may yet go...and we have no experienced cover . We are in a good position to go up, if we retain our recent form, but without those mentioned above ..we'll have no midfield at all. I still rate Lambert very highly despite his lack of goal scoring prowess he showed last season, but Barnard's future is uncertain until his case comes up, and Connolly is still plagued by injury . Hence my suggestion, 1 Striker and 2 midfielders to make sure we are well-covered until the end of the season. When we go up, I expect a thorough overall of the whole squad, if we are to push onto the Prem. in 3 -4 years.

just to be SURE of going up....YES ! We need cover for eventual injuries, suspensions (and to deal with whatever judgment the judicial system MAY impose on Barnard should things go against him) ..convinced yet ? WHEN we get up to CCC ...there is certain to be some sorting of, the sheep from the goats...the wheat from the chaff or the men from the boys ..Choose your own simile. As long as we have strength in depth, we 'll make it. There are still over 20 games left!

..think one 17 year old is enough in the team at present.

I was underlining that RL is not the goal machine he was last season and we can't rely on him winning games single-handedly,and Barnards future is up to the courts, not the manager. I know we have money, but I'm not advocating that we spend it for the sake of it, but the midfield is the powerhouse of any team, and we looked good a month ago, but Puncheon may well go, the AOC scenario is getting out of hand in the media and he may yet go before Feb. Hammond and Chaplow were not fit enough to play last Saturday..and the statements about Lallana's injury get more mysterious every time you read them. Would you be happy to sit and wait, and maybe to be without Chaplow, Hammond and/or Lallana for an indefinite period, because NA says we are " not going to rush to bring them back " (correct thing to say) but sounds like a smoke screen because nowhere have I read that any of those three ..is back training and fit for Saturday! Even if Puncheon and AOC stay, there was not much midfield experience available on the bench last Saturday. I stand by my reasoning in the opening thread. One more striker, and another GOOD midfielder.

Part of this "secret stuff " is not to hide information from the fans, but from the opposition. If they know they will have to play / or not play against Lallana, or Hammond or whoever, they will plan alternatively. Do you want to tell Alex Ferguson now - whether AL will be fit....or if Chaplow will be up for it. We've got the cards stacked against us already ...we don't have to give them - even more help.

We ought to define "squad player ". NA recently said that we had 20 players all wanting to get in the side....and most of them did after the Dagenham and Blackpool games. We have seen that the majority of those 20 could DAJFU on a regular basis, but given the present situation, we are not talking about buying people to " make up the numbers", but getting those who can challenge for - and get - regular games from the start.