Nineteen Canteen

I agree with you AP 100% and knowing the finanacial situation i was pleased we were taking the risk of going with some homegrown talent and adopting a management of youth approach that is the envy of the RoW. Till the day I die I will never understand why fans bigged up Pearson on the strength of what he achieved at Saints and he has only ever struck me as a good square bashing sargent-major type than a great manager. Maybe he was what was needed at the time, 'manage by fear' but not long term. The alledged fact he wanted to retain Idiakez should tell us all we need to know about how he would have managed our season. Journeymen loanees and freebies and the odd substitute appearance for Gillett and Lallana. Anybody who wasn't impressed by our team in the early games and buoyed by the prospect that we may just pull this off, is either lying, didn't go the games or it does not suit there personal agenda to admit what you and I have. The vast majority of comments are classic after timing comments and those who will point to Pearson's success at Leicester are once again ignoring the circumstances of both teams or perhaps you believe Pearson would have got us in the top 6 on our budget. What is the greater result a 3-0 away win at Ipswich or a tonking of hapless Cheltenham routed to the foot of the division and every player on the transfer list? To avoid any after timing I predict Leicester will get promoted and Pearson will be sacked by the start of 2010-11 at the latest just in case Mandaric comes over all loyal for a change. Getting promoted out of the league 1 with their resources and MK Dons as their most serious competitors doesn't quite compare to the task our club has faced. The Youth experiment is still working and although the balance has change its merely an adjustment and no sea change that many would lead us to believe with JPS (a new DUTCH signing) and Saga coming back into the team as preseumably we have saved enough to pay him for the time being. The only regret is that Wotte wasn't appointed after the Palace game in December that followed a disappointing run of results but JP survived because inbetween we beat Reading and we lived off that result too long. Having said all that i am very confident we will survive in terms of results but remain very concerned about administration. Even if we lose to a massively in form Derby team the games thereafter don't get close to matching the difficulty of our last 7 games and not many of our relegation candidates could have matched that run so we've done well to stay in touch. Last 7 games: Birmingham, Ipswich, Cardiff, Preston. Bristol City, Sheff Utd, Swansea. Not to many gimmes there and teams all in the top 6 or challenging for a play off place. The fact we've come away with 10 points shows we can push on under Wotte with some far easier opposition coming up like: QPR, Blackpool, Charlton, Watford, Palace, Sheff Wed. Then the slightly more difficult but still easier than our last 7 we have: Derby, Wolves, Burnley, Forest and easy to see us take at least 4 bonus points form those 4 games and win 5 of the other 6. Anyone who believes the Derby game is a must win and starts turning up the 'protest' heat if we lose is ignorant of the competition in this league and the dramatic improvement in our recent form in the middle of a very difficult run of games.

Me apparently, I must update my CV might look good to have some public relations experience on it. That reminds me, I must update my hobbies/interests as in the last 2 days I have developed an interest in SFC.

Not sure I have ever read a post that congratulates Wilde but as the main shareholder he is an enemy you need to keep close to your side. I agree with you and wish the man never darkened our door and I seriously doubt we would be where we are today had Lowe remained in charge. The perceived mistakes have come about from the severely limted availability of funds this season and when your back is that far against the wall risks have to be taken. Had Lowe appointed JP in happier times then that would have been highly questionable but the truth is none of us know the real nature of the onversations between the club and its creditors that clearly gave rise to JP and the youth policy. We mock and criticise largely from a position of ignorance and prejudice and as Professor commented at times its simply mob mentality with individuals just standing in line because it seems to be the 'done thing' with no understanding as to why. A sad state of affairs.

This wasn't strategic plan B.......no just basic succession planning, someone must have a MBA on the board.

Where did Palace pluck Ian Wright from? Darren Ferguson has recently signed a player from Richmond (I think) who couldn't get game in Basingstoke reserves and he has already had a brief run out for the posh the other night. SaintWarwick is right until we've had a chance to get a good look at him we don't know, I suppose you thought Saejis was going to be good based simply on his background. Colloqualism is not a justification but apology accepted even with your unnecessary sceptism.

Benji I think its a misconception to say that the current board should be solely responsible for answering questions if we fall into administration. A lot of their problems have been with them from day 1 and hence decisions have been made that probably wouldn't have been in better times. What was the infamous stat under the Hone and Crouch watch? Wages 80% of turnover? It's surprising we were still in trading at the start of the season. BTW I think its important to say that I am not a Lowe Luvvie but I am a pragmatist who looks for practical readily achievable solutions that can be implemented incrementally if necessary to achieve long term goals. I don't like 'pie in the sky' pipe dreams. At the moment because of external pressures the only way forward IMO is the status quo or invite Crouch onto board on the football side and Wilde can take his fans parliament idea forward. Both these ways are just incremental steps but first the priority is maintain CCC status and remain solvent. I'm prepared to be influenced but i can't see any practical and quick solution that can achieve those two absolute prerequisite objectives for the end of the season.

Um I didn't say that. I said who knows Liptak and Saejis could be the best partnership at the back since Claus and Killer and was just asking to try and a be a tad more optimistic. Saejis could be as good as Killer but who knows apart from time.

Maybe, but the real nugget will be the one you post that starts: 'I am really optimistic and upbeat about this club and its set up.....'

Which part did I offend you with. My optimism that Liptak maybe better than Perry or the fact that Svennson was a vastly superior CB than Claus. Its not as though I was suggesting Vincent Pericard was more effective up front than Marek Saganowski. If mong is an abbrieviation then for personal reasons if nothing else I find the word deeply offensive along with any other term that has it's origins based in describing human disabilities along with words that are racially offensive. Sorry I had to mention that.

Benji I don't disagree with the statement in bold above and have discussed it at length on other threads. However, it is ironic that the solution being put forward requires the assistance of the person the fans are being so vitrioloc about and surely you can see that is not the brightest approach. You say Lowe's ego or vendetta won't let him leave but it may simply be the case that as someone with a vested interest along with Wilde they feel best placed to dig us out of this hole. I would have supported a week ago in the interests of unity and an increase in attendance for Crouch to be invited to join the board and the protesters should make that their position with the personal backing of Crouch rather than simple name dropping. At least its more readily achievable and would add a more alledgedly 'fan friendly' focus to the board. A protest with a solution all in one would attract more positive interest. However, the attitude of some fairly churlish and prejudice corners of our fan base I feel I am once again entrenched back in simply supporting Lowe if the protesters still feel the need to march as the club have improved, continue to ignore the risk of administration and still march for Lowe to be removed with no one with the power to achieve their aim or sufficient numbers in supporters to make a difference. As far as I am concerned the signs are there that the club is still on the brink financially and Lowe is probably a touch more preoccupied than giving in to the fans wishes and placing an advert in the Sunday Times for a CEO of SLH plc. So posters saying it can't be difficult to recruit a CEO are correct but if you have no power or influence over the decision makers its impossible so a change of tact is required. The proposal of Crouch could be treated with the same disdain but at least it doesn't require anyone to walk away from their positions.

Only if it means that when you can't debate a point successfully you revert to pointing out a person's spelling mistakes or making extremely pedantic observations.

Unlike you not to be optimistic afterall Liptak could turn out to be better than Saejis or Perry. Liptak and Saejis could become our best partnership at the back since Killer carried Claus.

That's the master stroke. Reverse psychology, success planning, richard wright luck. He's got the job now and that's what matters. Surviavl was teh objective and it look like that can now be achieved, solvency is the next aim.

When they are blowing their trumpets out of tune?

Indeed and who is reponsible for placing the advert?

In your opinion of course. If Lowe leaves prepare to deflate.

Thats good hopefully i won't be always labelled 'once a scab always a scab' even after 25 years. Admitting in the stadium you actually support what Lowe is trying to achieve requires riot shields for protection from some fairly unhinged individuals.

Alternatively the extremists who feel the need to protest as the club are on the cusp of turning things around can simply walk away. I think it's a malicious rumour the fan base is not united when the majority or hardcore of 15k have been unstinting in their support and contrary to popular belief attendances have increased post the Norwich home win. The majority are not united with the prejudice minority who moan and protest without solution or understanding of the situation.

Exactly, or any other of the protesters. Protest without a solution is not dissimilar to Scargill in the 1980's and it was interesting reliving that this morning in the news. The Coal Board was costing the government millions and no alternative but to close pits but Scargill whipped the miners up to strike for their jobs as if it was their divine right to keep them even though they were effectively defunct. Scargill just kept rubbishing the Govt but I cant remember him ever putting forward a workable solution and the Govt just managed the strike but never gave in as ultimately they knew they couldn't lose as there was no alternative solution. Protest without solution and Lowe knows he can simply manage the extremists and get on with the job in hand without even registering the protests are taking place leaving that to is right hand man to ridicule their efforts through on the pitch success. The club deserves better tbh.

Do not confuse or ignore the question of loyalty Wotte may have for Lowe. I doubt Wotte will want to stay if he perceives the fanbase are trying to undermine his efforts by campaigning to oust the person who has shown faith in his ability and bringing him to Saints. Adrian is closest to the likely outcome (IMO) in his assumption and don't confuse the fact that Wotte was wanted by Jol at Hamburg so i doubt he will be short of offers.

I can believe that but neither will logic or consideration of the environment that Lowe now operates in. If we survive relegation and remain solvent then this will represent one of Lowe's greatest achievements and you suggest we reward him with a campaign to oust him? I don't see to many stepping up to the plate and even Crouch admitted he only wanted to take over the football side so perhaps if we survive we have much to be grateful for. For many this anti-Lowe campaign is simply blind prejudice.

Excellent post. If 'fans' start protesting now we will be ridiculed in the media. the manager and players will be wondering wtf do they have to do to silence the critics and more importantly our closest challengers will be rubbing their hands with glee at the unexpected bonus of Saints fans aiming their weapons bizarrely at each others foot. Save it until the end of the season afterall 3 games ago the protesters wanted Wotte Out, so hardly a track record of good judgement. If this is not a wind up can someone please tell me what exactly you are marching for? Lowe out and then your solution is what exactly? No names please unless they have signed up to your cause.

Are you a miner from 1984?

Phil, re your first point it didn't stop Crouch issuing the March madness offer at the previous years prices last season. He was right by 20 minutes but I still renewed in March and the fact he left justified it was a risk worth taking. 62 points maybe the cut off point

It wasn't this post that resulted in the ban Alpine and you and i know that. It was what followed from 1965 that sealed his fate with his pram being rapidly emptied. Nothing wrong in having strident opinions but you can't dish out the abuse and accusations and not expect reaction in return or be informed by the mods to cool it occassionally as without them, like it or loathe it there is no forum (like it or loathe it) 1965 has a point but hasn't the same occured at Derby and Forest to a lesser degree and the opposite at Norwich and Watford and why other than patience has Doncaster suddenly turned it around? It doesn't necessarily have to be a constant Lowe bashing. A lot of the innuendo stems from Strachan's book - a one sided view from a somewhat off the wall Scot. If I was Duncan I would be offering to ghost write Lowe's autobiography as that is sure to be a compelling read about the recent history of this club and add some balance to the story. Perhaps that's why he has been so quiet. Nick Hornby said 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment. no matter what the score'. Unfortunately, 1965 and a few others take this concept to an entirely lower level and as a result the forum has become a parody of a place for fans to discuss their club and more for would be weasley Ian Hislop types to refine their one upmanship.