Nineteen Canteen

Probably, but not as much as the fans and when we needed them most to boost our revenues in obviously difficult times they deserted the club. Why because the club couldn't afford to buy or keep players and management the deserting fans would have been happy with, whilst ignorantly ignoring the reality of the Wilde takeover. Many of our fans about 90% of alledged 200,000 on the ticket database have contributed to the decline in much the same way as Woolworths for example. Look forward to the rise of WellSaints FC from the ashes of SMS. We talk of buyers but should we discuss if we are actually a going concern worthy of purchase with barely 10% of our fanbase bothering to support the club?

Exactly! He should move into politics don't you think?

Accidental or visionary? Whichever way you dress it up are you now telling me you sit in Block 10 despite the feedback I was given by SG after your discussions with him? Blimey you'll be telling me you sit in row J next. Discuss it like adults? That would be interesting based on the behaviour of some I have seen this season in block 10, I'll make sure I bring my ST so I have something to wave - at least for the next 3 home games.

Same planet as you Papa but obviously with a much better view of the whole landscape. Suggest you come out of your hole and have a look around. How many years before 2004 did we come close to the drop? I don't dispute poor decisions were made that season but it's not as though the subsequent regime actually learned from them either. All hindsight is 20/20 but had we stuck with Lowe and held out for a more serious investor then we wouldn't be where we are now.

Exactly, they are probably rueing the day they didn't have a visionary chairman to implement a structure that would ultimately save them if the lunatics ever took over the asylum and a last ditch fall back plan was needed. If we get away without a deduction and the football league don't decide to set new precedents and use us as an example then this may be worth another a statue outside SMS for the man who kept us from dropping into the 3rd tier of Englsih football 50 years after the great man got us out. If we get deducted the points nothing Wotte can do will save us but at least he has been given a chance of survival. Good luck Rupert and thanks for your efforts.

True and McMenemy had the temerity to crawl out of the woodwork tonight for the cameras. Someone needs to advise him his teflon coating is beginning to where thin.

Arizona I agree that period wasn't the best of times but at that stage the decline wasn't heading to where we are now and those events were not irreversible with time and patience. In fact its arrogant to suggest that a club of our size would be able to continue to punch above its weight nice though it was and for supporters to consider it a right. Relegation whether it came in 2004 could have called on our door many times in the preceding 27 years or it may have taken another 5, 10 or 20 years but it was always going to happen without a bottomless pit of cash. Rich businessmen and dodgy oligarchs have taken the joy out of supporting a team through developing skill, tenacity and determination to a path of glory. Money guarantees success and we simply didn't have enough regardless of disputable decisions. Relegation did not get us to this situation it was merely an unpleasant stop en route but the problem really started when somebody else decided to read the map to success and those in the 'car' with him.

When the lemmings decided to back Wilde's ride to the promised land of milk and honey. Before then Lowe had made some bad decisions and that cannot be denied and also he made some very good ones and they to must be acknowledged. However, I remain strongly of the opinion that had he not been forced to resign when Crouch decided to get into bed with Wilde then this mess we are into day would be nothing but a pipe dream for Stanley and the other vacuous individuals who pedal their prejudical bile without any reasoning. Lowe cannot be held responsible for selling off the family silver in the interim period and draining the club of its last penny. In fact it's a miracle he has kept us afloat this long and if he can leave this mess, if not created by Wilde and Crouch at least instigated by them, without a 10pt deduction then this may even be his finest hour against the odds. A fighting chance at least for Wotte and the team to have a chance of survival instead of just playing out our last breath of Championship football before a fight to stay in league 1. I wish him well and hope that the next chairman we appoint has the same strength of character and backbone to see through their policies and appreciate that running a club is not a popularity contest.

FWIW Nick I think today's events clearly show that Lowe took the only route available to him. On the face of it some of the player / managerial decisions were odd but set against a financial background that few or any of us on this forum have been privvy to these were probably forced decisions whilst trying to add some positive angle i.e the Dutch / Youth approach. The detailed accounts and reports will make interesting reading but personally I'm looking forward to Duncan's new book 'The Damned Saints' and the film starring Leslie Grantham as Rupert Lowe, Adam Woodyat as Leon Crouch and Ray Brooks as Michael Wilde. Don't like to typecast but you've got the second comeback angle, the smug local businessman and the weird loser.

Last season first home game v. Palace c.25k This season first home game v. Sheff W c.19k Seems some of our fans wrote us off before a ball was kicked even taking into account the economic climate. I accept some fans are fickle and will walk away but stats show that the crowds actually got better between the long gloomy period of our 1st and 2nd home win and were on the slide before we beat Norwich at home in September. That suggests to me that constant losing at home is not the only factor and some walked away purely off the back of a personality in the boardroom and di so before a ball was kicked. Indefensible really for a true supporter who is able to afford to attend games but prefers to sulk dressed up as protest. Apart from those loyal fans who have continued to support at home games and did their bit to put revenue into the club the rest are reaping what they helped to sow.

I usually drive cross country from NW Hants, takes about 45 mins on a good day.

Only if being a chairman of a football club or any other company is a personality contest. Lowe did what others should have done a year ago but didn't for fear of their popularity IMO. Doesn't standing his ground = doing what he could to save the club he had proudly brought into the 21st C and didn't we all feel the same not so long ago? He could have stepped down and we could have ended up with some Mike Ashley type of character ready to put up the for sale signs at the first hint of unrest.

Is this the same John Smith who vowed not to attend games whilst lowe was in charge. Don't you think you have contributed in some small way to the financial difficulties this club has had of meeting it's on going commitments? I hate to say I told you so but fans choosing to stay away because they disliked the chairman was only going to have one outcome. My view is that had we been able to keep attendances consistently at the 20k level then we may not have the cashflows problems we have now. Pledging your support now is most noble but depressingly empty gesture and what happens if Rupert remains in charge having struck a deal as well reasoned by Beer Engine on another thread? Personally, I prefer to stand shoulder to shoulder with those fans whom I've stood with all season. Your calls John of finding a common togetherness and we shall not be defeated are somewhat hollow from a person who like many others has contributed to the downfall of the club by stripping it of much needed revenue. As the club did what it could to reduce costs you and many others failed to support them from the word go in August and based purely on prejudice. The problem you have helped to create now is who will buy us with such a weak customer base. Look at the crowds teams like Derby, Norwich and Charlton are achieving and look at the their respective recent past and present problems. The stay aways who gave up on this club are contributory factors to the situation and I indeed hate to say I told you so but it was fairly obvious what would happen eventually without investment and dwindling revenues. We may or may not go into administration but bigger and more sympathetic and supportive crowds that recognised what the club were trying to do would have avoided todays events. 200,000 supporters on the Saints ticket database, where were you?

I agree, I think this is an idea that they have come with up as a last desperate attempt to avoid that 10 pt or more deduction. If Ashley as owner of Newcastke went bankrupt could he be divorced from the club as a separate entity. Surely the club would be classed as an asset of his as Saints i presume is an asset of SLH. The two are intrinsicly linked IMO. Bang goes the 'it may not be that bad news theory'!

Because I sent Weston a message that I was getting fed up with the negativity of most of the posters and a few unhinged and I had asked Steve to cancel my account. Had Steve followed my request I would have been gone but tbh tonight saw this somewhat explosive thread and felt I wanted to add some hope that it may not be the worst of news if not great either. I have an immense amount respect for Weston and whilst I don't know what he said to you, as far as he was concerned I had decided not to post and had packed it in whilst explaining my reasons for the decision. Tonight was the first time I found out I was still registered and able to log in and had given myself a self imposed exile as the forum was changed so that registered users could only view 3-4 days after a game or in less busy periods. Had I known I could have caught up more regularly. Good news is I will be posting a lot less often and reading a lot more following some sage advice from respected source.

I don't like to disappoint the Dan Brown of the forum aka Trousers but I've never gone away just prefering to read rather than post. Saw FF's thread and everyone immediately assuming it was administration and League 1 and all that and just wanted to point out given the timing of the annoucement it may be just an annoucement to suspend trading on the LSE. FF points to a board meeting later tomorrow but in any event you would expect that following an LSE annoucement suspending trading activity. If that is the case as it seems no one actually knows what the annoucement is going to be and we are all just making educated guesses, even those suggesting its an April fool to feed the forum is perhaps not beyond the bounds of possibility. Of course it could be the worse news but equally there are many plausible reasons why trading has to be suspended that doesn't automatically mean the worst of news. Its rarely going to be great but equally it doesn't mean we are going out of business just yet. So let's hope Stanley the Saints fan isn't laughing tomorrow.

I can accept Barclays position but do not understand Aviva's unless we have been defaulting on our mortgage payments or very concerned about meeting our commitments to them in the future. I don't doubt your integrity but on the face of it its difficult to believe Aviva had pulled the plug - do you know why? Have we defaulted?

Given what has happened to the share price and persistent rumour about administration this may be a decision to suspend share trading until the situation becomes clearer. Suspended shares don't automatically assume administration and even companies like Barclays had their shares suspended at the start of the credit crunch fears. Likewise Woolworths also had their shares suspended. Hopefully, at this stage it's just a suspension in trading for whatever reasons like restructuring, unfounded allegations or suspicious trading. Would seem odd going into administration a few days past the deadline but unfortuantely our creditors won't care to much about -10pt penalties and so before we go shooting off at the board lets see how this plays out and what the facts of the situation are. Now is not the time for recriminations and angry unfounded reflections. Whatever the reason and given the source I don't doubt its credibility, we need to understand the situation and ramifications and support the club through any eventuality. Suspended share trading, which I hope is the announcement, does not equal administration or relegation.

with 9 games to go who would you prefer to play to record 3 wins? QPR (h); Blackpool (a); Charlton (h) Or Preston (h); Cardiff (h); Ipswich (a) Seems to me we have done the hard work and 9 straightforward points will leave us on 47 with 6 to play and a probable safety target of 52 points we could even afford a slip up with woeful Palace and mediocre Wednesday to play, plus 3 other good opportunities for points before a hopefully redundant 6 pointer on the last game. You could argue we've not had an easy game since Barnsley as Norwich had the new manager effect and Donny were starting their roll. The last 9 games gone that look a lot harder retrospectively than our next 9 and its testament to Wotte and the team we are still in a good position to get out of trouble.

In one post Daren you manage to confirm my previous remarks almost effortlessly although no doubt this was not a measured tirade. So by your logic, if you are dyslexic it's tough if people ridicule you for your bad grammar and spelling, what if there are even more serious reasons for people's mistakes in the composition of their posts, if mocking the dyslexic isn't bad enough? Is it therefore moronic or intelligent if people like me choose to avoid debating issues with posters like yourself whose first line of attack is to question the validity of a person's opinions or intelligence by pointing out their grammatical errors quite so zealously. As I've mentioned before there is little point in trying to debate with some people whose views are so extreme and entrenched that they resort to abuse and ridicule when confronted with facts and opinions that they cannot retaliate with. [admin edit - sentence removed due to libel] It's another reason why I won't get drawn into a debate with you. I find you amusing and disturbing at the same time and hope you find the time to retract your comments about dyslexia. You can find out more information from this site and there are a number of charities that would welcome your support through donations or simply collecting on their behalf. http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/whatisdyslexia.html Pity because if you had read my posts a few weeks ago with Wes and others then you would have witnessed me debating a path forward and both sides finding some middle ground. I find it difficult to understand why Wes has changed his tack with me again but to build bridges only to burn them again through ridicule and aggressive tirades goes to show that in a small way our fans are capable of disunity regardless of what goes on in the boardroom. None of us are going to agree 100% about issues such as boardroom, players, managers, potential etc but it's the extremists who do the damage and most of those sit firmly with yourself. IMO you have no write (see what I did there) to represent the fans views in the Pink as it's a very very narrow minded band you represent. What do you call yourself? The Beautiful South? Now that is ironic.

Using your usual methods I have lifted this comment from one of your posts. Time the likes of Daren, Tame, Wes, Paula and yourself take your advice on board and people might feel it worthy to enter a genuine debate with you rather than be ridiculed for a few typos and 'rushed' grammar. It seems to me the more intelligent / insightful comments from either side are probably posted by those with the least amount of time to check and re-check every post they make. Its a forum not a letter of complaint to your MP. BTW on your cost cutting post you forgot to mention paying the staff wages. Cost cutting doesn't mean not spending anything.

If we are talking collective responsibility them I mostly agree with you but desperate times require desperate or unique measures and everyone has played their part including some players and fans. Its a sad state of affairs but we won't go forward by lamenting the past.

Well Trousers FWIW I would like to see Wotte address our right side as the diamond shape gives us little width down the right and we end up with James's floaty in swinging crosses from around the half way line which are simply watched and dealt with by the opposing CB's. Secondly it has been good to see Surman and Skacel linking up well down the left but that didn't happen against Derby. I don't think we should drop Surman (poor performance last night) or Saga who also had an anonymous and tired looking game (surprising since he has probably played half the matches of some) but Wotte clealy needs to have a few words with both. My dilemma is what do we do with the right midfield slot. Lallana has not shown his promise this season IMO and at times has resembled a headless chicken and Schneirderlin has to play in the middle, at the moment probably as understudy to Gillett. Therefore do we try BWP who seems out of favour since his occupational hazard of getting into trouble with the police. So for the first time in a few games I think we do indeed have a dilemma worthy of your regular thread.

Thank You, Wes. Gary Chesterton also wrote: 'One sees great things from the valley; only small things from the peak'. Come down and join the common man.