Nineteen Canteen

Usual debate in the news this morning about fair trade vs. price this time with regard to bananas. Some supermarkets may be selling them as a loss leader at around 7p each and as a result are having a negative impact on producers who can't grow them at that price. Do you care if the supermarket still pays the producer the same price and sells them to us at a loss? The view of the general public in good old BBC fashion is shown as split with those saying who cares as long as they are cheap and they can provide their family with one of their 5 a-day cheaply and easily and those who will not buy bananas unless fair trade ones are available. So where do you stand ethically with regards all your purchases from groceries, white good, cars, houses, energy sources, etc? Personally, and being totally honest about it, I am firstly driven by want and then price and ethical considerations never come into it whatsoever. Surely, the ethical questions are not the concern of 1 consumer but those who have the power to remove the unethical choice namely the producers, retailers, governments and those charged with our technological future. So how many fair trade insistent, allotment owning, cob owning, mortgageless, Prius driving, hunter wearing greenies do we have on the forum?

Buy a good bicycle? On a serious note Hypo, good luck - there is no better city to do a marathon IMO - and like you say it will be some experience. How do we sponsor you without using that generator of charitable begging letters 'justgiving.com'.

Can't agree more but it would be nice if they were made to account for their actions nonetheless otherwise we learn little. Mistakes and wrong decisions happen, we all have that misfortune but they remain damaging if collectively we don't learn from them. We have no more learned form the 'our' mistakes and bad decisions than breathed a sigh of relief.

But equally it is just as surprising that there are folk still around trying to convince us he was a complete disaster and did nothing for club which of course also makes them descendents of King Canute. The reality he did a lot of good for the club and made some key errors and perhaps less telling than errors made by Wilde and Crouch. His last tenure as chairman was doomed to failure before it began and even if we had the luxury of choosing a chairman from the best Britain had to offer they would have failed as well thanks to 2 seasons so catastrophically bad in their management it was all but over come August 2008 IMO. Desparate times call for despearate measures and in my opinion at least and in the absence of any other suitable candidates Wilde backed Lowe as backing Crouch would have removed the last vestiges of hope. In the end the fans hatred of Lowe as much as anything else brought the club to it's knees and the initial bouyant mood in August 2008 when Lowe tried to spin some hope for the club and set about cutting costs that mood soon turned sour and the fans who turned their back on Lowe turned their back on the club. Of course there will be many full of self-congratulation, that they may have helped in their own small minded way to bring the club down and get rid of Lowe. However, they have short memories on how the actions of everyone connected with the club from 2006 to date, who chose not to support it, manage it or play for it as they should and as a result very, very nearly bought it's demise. Looking forward it's a huge comfort to know that the new board have settled in and focussed on the future and removed simply and effectively the battles of the past from the Directors box. The fact some refuse to come to games now is perhaps in very much my layman's opinion, testament to their own self-interested agendas.

Mike, sadly no wind up on my part and Lowe needs to give answers as much as MLT needs to provide them IMO otherwise it remains an open wound left to fester instead of being a clean line in the sand. There our others as well who could be asked a few questions namely Crouch and McMemeny and the latter especially about why he feels the need to stop watching Saints because the regime that saved us wants to charge everybody. I hope that Fitzhugh Fella writes or collaborates with another author one day to write a book on the saga from Cup Final to League 1 in 6 sorry years and perhaps then we can have a book that we can all enjoy for the education if nothing else, minus the 40 pages of contributions from sycophants that served what purpose exactly? The reason I say FF should colloborate with someone on this book because he did say it would be difficult for him to write with any balance but working with others and done well I think it would be a story worth telling far beyond the reaches of SFC. Lets face it the story has it all and more with characters from all walks of life and the ensuing power crazed battles, overpaid journeymen players and fallen angels the recent history of the Saints is a story worthy of investigation fully and telling in its balanced entireity. So, no wind up by me just a small search for the truth.

That's your prerogative Wes and I respect that but personally I remain convinced it is wrong that he has maintained his slience since he was quick to sell his story in the first place and has proverbially taken le tiss (sic) out of those who bought the book and the rest of his fan base. All this of course coming off the the back of the shambles that was Pinnacle and the damaging knock on effect that has had to our season, from which we are now showing signs of recovery, thank goodness for that at least. IMO MLT has not covered himself in glory in either situation and has not exactly provided a decent explanation for his actions. Hero on the pitch - of course. In his retirement from playing? Far from it IMO and is making a good job of disappointing his adoring fans to the point of alienation. Would you welcome back MLT to any sort of role at SMS? I wouldn't because in the absence of answers I am left questioing what really motivates him. Certainly as things stand if we have a repeat appearance like that at the Millwall game I'll be the one refusing to acknowledge his presence because genuine greatness extends far beyond what he or anyone else achieves in football which lets face it wasn't exactly at the summit of what he had the potential to achieve. Perhaps he should have got involved in betting scams more often to up his contribution?

Transgression? You use a word Wes that taken literally packs a hell of a punch with regards to it's meaning. So in answer to your question it says more about MLT than any dog with bone who will no doubt gnaw away until the point his interest wanes and how is that going to happen? Eventually get fed up waiting for some meat on the bones and dissatisfaction turns to contempt? As regards to my integrity in the real world then I believe I can hold my head high but on a faceless internet forum where 95% of user's identities are masked by pseudonyms I think my integrity is at least on a par with everyone else and stand by my opinions without fear or favour. My thoughts Wes, popular or otherwise and I post accordingly and not for plaudits or attention. I think my integrity is secure and if you think I have multiple ids then I am sure you will recognise I am hardly alone.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=427112#post427112

Very true, it's all uphill just to get there.

What a difference a few weeks make Andy. I suppose if we draw the next two away games and lose at home to MK Dons the team will be spineless morons again heading for relegation. Pardew spoke about consistency tonight and I think that may apply to some of our fanbase.

No you don't but there are a few non-negotiables and IMO integrity is one of them. They all make mistakes and it's how they deal with them that defines how integrity is maintained. MLT admitted his part in a betting scam in his book with comments that he had never run so hard in a game whilst the ball remained in play and that he did it once and would never do it again. All fair enough although the 'never run so hard' comment was a bit difficult to take when you consider how close we came to relegation on occassion and maximum effort was required from everyone despite their personal talents. Giving away possession to a throw in was the most important thing that caused him to run his hardest in a game? However, subsequent reports in the media, involvement of the police and statement from the CPS, plus the information that the game MLT spoke about was not televised live and therefore, a bet of that nature could not have been placed and we are left wondering what to believe, or at least me and maybe Trousers, who secretly can't resist this stuff. ( ) All of a sudden, reasonable questions are raised on what first appeared to be a simple admission and acknowledgement that he realised he was lucky to get away with it and never to get involved again. Has MLT been honest with his fans and the wider community who bought his book? Does it matter? Probably not if he chose the Lowe approach to question avoidance and slipped under the radar and keeping his silence but MLT has bold as brass turned back up on our screens and no Fernesque statement, nothing to put the record straight. You have to admire the thickness of his skin IMO, if nothing else, considering the response from the CPS and the fact the game was not televised live.

Nineteen Canteen in typing and listening to his radio at the same time shock. Need to check I still have a pair of testicles all this multi-tasking I may have turned into a lady but don't have the shrill voice of some. (Hello Beatle, i knew you'd take of your 'block')

I'll wrap the result up and open it on my birthday.

Yes indeed, shame it's not my birthday.

Sorry Toomer but it was begging to be knocked over long off- He loves the club but not through and through considering his connection to Burnley.

With a subtle hint of claret

In that case why mention it at all as by his own admission he left a lot of other 'private' stuff out that may have helped us understand better why he chose to stay at Southampton.

Gemmel as far as I am aware I am nobody's sporting hero have not written my life story or appear regularly on national TV to opine on football and those involved with it. My politics don't stop me supporting the club unlike some other less than glorious fans last season but neither is my support blind and when reasonable questions need to be asked I will ask them, bile doesn't come into it and that is just a malicious suggestion put about by those who feel uncomfotable about me challenging a hero they believe(d) is/was above such questions. We both know he is not.

Do you think the stack of tenners got in the way of his first gilt edged opportunity early in the first half which he missed somewhat casually according to Merrington?

I think it maybe less about being crap and more about finding his level according to age and ability. The more he improves now and builds his confidence at this level the better he'll be when we get promoted.

Nothing changes Nothing does It ends up like It always was It always will Because, because Blame RonManger he made me dig out my Hidden Treasures collection from one Terence Alan Milligan.

LOL - but to be fair there are worse and Wrighty on Saturday afternoons seems to think he can get away with not knowing anything as he has a small part time job working for Channel 5 Monday to Friday that seemingly stops him from reading papers and listening to the radio. Still don't start him on his DVD collection.

I don't know? Why?

I agree I couldn't stand the man especially when he cut off callers who clearly didn't agree with him and had a strong argument to boot. However, when you start calling an invited guest a nazi because you don't agree with their policy then you may have built the ivory tower a little to high. Does he still have his column in the Sun?. H&J are quite good although Jacobs gets a bit precious over anything to do with Chelsea and Gough is no replacement for Wright. Brazil just grates and it maybe the time for the station to have a major rethink. There are some excellent presenters on 5live with weekend or late night shows who would wipe the floor with those who have weekday primetime slots on TS.

Agreed but I also think he will benefit from a change of scenery and for a young player in the last 3 seasons I think we asked to much of him and one stand out mistake was Pearson asking him to play at left back. Most players leave clubs and the drawbridge is pulled up permanently behind them but for players like Andrew Surman and Wayne Bridge to name just two I would like to think that is not the case and perhaps if nothing else they will return to see out their careers where they started so successfully.