Saint Pete

Don't think we had a prayer of keeping him once Villa were interested unfortunately.

I don't think there's anything wrong with assessing the condition of the players when deciding if and when players need to be subbed, he does need to think about the bigger picture of the whole season rather than just 90 minutes. But agree it should certainly not be so rigid as to ignore what is happening in the match. Today, I felt it was fair for Larin to come off early given he's started every league game and his form has dipped a bit in the last 2 (the merits of his replacement and how we are playing to him is another debate). But Scienza should have stayed on for longer as he was the danger man at the point he took him off and may well have scored or created the vital 2nd goal. Tonda was too rigid in sticking to his pre game plan with that one if that's what he was doing. We need to remember sometimes that Tonda is still a very young and inexperienced manager and still learning. If you go for such a young manager, you need to accept they won't get everything spot on, but of course they do need to be humble enough to learn their lessons.

Tonda has said what he's said when asked about Ramsdale, but I'm pretty sure it's not really in his hands at this point. It's obvious the club wanted to shift Ramsdale in the window and that they would still want to get as much of his wages off the books as possible if they can get him to Saudi. So, I think that is what's driving the line being taken at the moment. Tonda said in the pre match presser something along the lines of "Adam's story began before I arrived". I think that was a diplomatic way of saying "it's out of my hands". If he's still here once all the possible windows are closed, you may see a change in approach then, especially if there is an injury or loss of form to Peretz.

Well, there's that, but he also needs to work with and get the best out of these players, that is his job. There's no value in throwing the players under the bus by saying the squad's not up to it at this stage, only harm. Of course, he has got to back them to get better as the season progresses, which some of them may do to be fair. Not sure what some fans expect the manager to say.

What do you want him to say, "Yes, our attacking options off the bench are shit now and much worse than last season. Spors has really fucked up there".

I can understand Larin coming off earlier in this game to be fair, he's started every league game so far and we simply can't keep flogging him for 46 games without his level dropping and potentially him getting crocked. And he wasn't having his best game today anyway. We HAVE to find another alternative to him up front at least some of the time without such a big drop off in effectiveness. It's mad that an unproven Mubama currently seems our only alternative and he can't seem to hold the ball up, but we are where we are and I think Tonda needs to work more in training with him and the rest of the side to find a way for him to be more effective. It may seem counter-intuitive when he's not doing great, but we may need to actually start him for a couple of games to allow him to settle more. I agree Scienza should have stayed on longer though as he was at last impacting the game and looking like he would force the vital 2nd goal.

Seems like it was pre-planned to sub him and Larin on the hour with the Swansea game in mind. But I agree, you need to respond to what's needed in the game. Given the poor 1st half team performance and that Leo was finally getting some joy, he should have left him on for at least another 10-15 mins to try and get that 2nd goal which would/should have killed the game off.

You're right, he won't because that would mean admitting that he's fucked up by leaving us much weaker in squad depth and quality!

Yep, looks like lack of quality and depth on the bench is really going to cost us this season unless we can get more of a tune out of the likes of Mubama, Dobbin, Edozie. Criminal though really that we have left ourselves relying so much on the young unproven Mubama to back Larin up. Time to look again at that free agent list?!

We'll never know, but I suspect we would have conceded anyway. After a decent spell earlier in the half when we looked like we had more control, Lincoln were already pushing again and creating chances before that sub. The real problem is the lack of defensive qualities of both Wood and Stephens, we are always likely to concede when pressured if one of them are on the pitch. We can only hope that Abbott comes good once has has settled in and can take over as partner for Schlott.

I can see why people would say that and blame the subs as we conceded, but you need good subs to bring on and you need a good squad. I think we had that in 2nd half of last season, but after the window, the early signs are we have regressed and several times now we have seen a drop in standard of players when we have made our subs (which we will need to do in a 46 game season). So not all on Tonda.

I would think it's likely Larin will come off earlier this game, maybe on the hour, so Mubama should get 30 mins+ hopefully. Ideally, the plan would be to be a couple of goals up by then but as we know it doesn't always go to plan with Saints!

So we come out of transfer window and Stephens back as first choice and captain. LOL! Oh well, it's not fair to forget that he did do a reasonable job for much of last season so let's hope for the best. Otherwise, a strong lineup, Manning rested so JWP fully on set piece duties!

The crazy fucked-up world of the top end of the Premier League now. Spend £25-30m on a senior player and then say you had enough cover already that you don't even need to pick them in your squad for the biggest competition! A real shame for him, especially with who they are playing as you say.

It could be something like that. It's an odd situation. What's for certain is Saints will have been more than keen to offload at least some of his wages by moving him on. He must still be one of, if not the, highest earners at the club so it's a disaster really from their point of view if he's still here, particularly after they have signed another quality keeper in Peretz for a fee and a significant wage. I can't believe there has been no interest at all in Ramsdale so (total guesswork on my part) I wonder whether there has been some reluctance from Ramsdale himself to explore or take up options to leave on loan this time for reasons unknown (his family situation might play into that)? If that were the case, what's going on now could perhaps be the club gently applying a boot to his backside to encourage him to take up any late offers from Saudi etc by telling him privately and now publicly that if he stays he won't be playing a meaningful role on the pitch for us? As I say, pure guesswork / conjecture on my part!

If he doesn't get a move and then Peretz picks up an injury that keeps him out a while, I can't imagine a scenario where we don't pick Ramsdale. You cannot realistically argue that Long is a better keeper than Ramsdale and it would be damaging to our chances of promotion to pick Long if we have a far better keeper sitting there doing nowt.

Well, folks on here have been arguing our options and depth in strikers is absolutely fine, so if that's true, why would the club choose to spend £5m+ add ons on another striker? Particularly as the view seems to be we needed to bank much of the cash from the outgoings against our debts.

I guess the worry with that is that we may not be there or thereabouts if Mubama doesn't cut it and we have left ourselves without enough suitable options to cover Larin until January, but let's hope for the best! On the positive side, Larin has by and large looked superb so far (with a bit of a dip on Tuesday) so if he avoids injury and we can find ways of keeping him fresh, we should have enough to at least be in contention, especially if we can continue to find goals amongst the rest of the team.

Agree with you, we do need to learn to feed him differently to Larin when he is on the pitch. I think he will do OK if we can do that. From a squad perspective though, it would feel a lot more comfortable if we had a viable stronger forward as backup too in case Larin gets injured and the team we are playing needs that type of player rather than the Mubama type. I'm not sure Prince is that guy based on his Salford record in League Two but let's see.

Well yes, in terms of the striker position, those who insist we are fine in terms of backup might want to consider why Saints were bidding £5m+£2m on deadline day for Charlton striker Mbick? Clearly, the club themselves thought we could do with one more as cover after all of the departures or they wouldn't have done that, no?

Hmmm, doesn't exactly scream "ready to play a role in a Championship promotion chasing team", does it?!

You do make some good points there, some of which make me feel a little better! I'm still nervous though with potential reliance on Dobbin to cover injuries or loss of form in Larin/Mubama as it feels like he is being badged as "all things to all men" at the moment. First, he was competition/cover for Azaz in the No.10 role, then when Edozie was mooted as leaving, it was OK as Dobbin can provide the cover in wide areas instead of him, and now he's our No.3 target man as well! He's trying to settle in at a new club which may take time and whilst versatility can be a valuable quality, I wonder if it would be better for him if Tonda decides what his best position is and then we stick with it and give him a proper chance to settle into the side in that role only rather than switching him round all over the place? I haven't seen enough of him yet though to know which position that should be. Other point is I still would feel more comfortable if we can find another striker with more physical presence to backup Larin, so it would be great if the academy lad can provide some of that in time.

Yes, like I said Saints protected their interests by waiting until the very last possible moment before offering him an extension (for the reasons that you state plus possibly that they weren't keen on triggering the extension in the event we were promoted?) And when we waited too long, he then looked after his own interests by seeking a longer deal, which Swansea (possibly stupidly) provided him. Not sure what the problem is there or why you are taking it so personally. "Loyalty" works both ways and in any case, I would have thought you would have worked out by now there isn't much of it about in football, particularly in the modern game! And by the way, I don't think he will be laughing about sitting in the treatment room again, I would imagine he will be gutted that more time is being lost in his career, no matter how much he is being paid.

... Yes, but the paragraphs are not usually mid-sentence! 😉

Yes, more than happy with Larin, he is up there with Zipotnik, Piroe, Jimenez, Lankshear, etc amongst the very best in this league. My point is about depth as Larin can't play every game and his good performances last season were arguably aided by having a good striker that could be rotated with him. Can't say I was "happy" with Archer, think the stats say he had 4 league goals, but worth pointing out he only had 11 starts (admittedly with a lot of sub appearances). That's not amazing but also not worthless for a 3rd option and compares fairly favourably with Mubama (2nd option this season) with 5 goals in 20 starts for Stoke. Of course, Mubama is young so let's hope we can bring him on this season from that, we certainly need to. I'm happy-ish with those 2, but I can't understand why we wouldn't want the extra insurance of a 3rd senior specialist option, which all of the other main contenders have. Some are touting Dobbin for that role so let's hope he can do that if needed, although it's interesting that the number of positions he is supposed to be covering has been expanding over the last week or so!