Verbal

Indeed. This really interesting thread from the inside of the 27's talks among themselves shows they're sensitive to that. And it's not because they take seriously a 'no deal' jihadist grabbing power from May and threatening to shoot the British economy in the head as a 'bargaining tool'. It's because they worry that, as useless as May, Davis, et al, are, the thought of going all the way back to square one this late in the game is just too tiresome. https://twitter.com/alexebarker/status/921426504482828288 It took all of 90 seconds for the 27 to come to the conclusion that the British had not made enough progress on the divorce settlement: nothing whatsoever of worth on the Irish question, a little but inadequate progress on citizens' rights, and nowhere near enough progress on the financial settlement. Just to take the financial settlement, this is how bad the May regime is. Four months ago, the EU produced a position paper proposing a methodology for calculating the settlement figure. Here it is in full, for the enthusiasts: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/essential-principles-financial_settlement_en_0.pdf What has been the May regime's response? Nada. Absolutely nothing - in four months. It's not as if the civil service is bad at producing responses - that's its bread and butter. It's that there is no political direction to get this done - no agreement in Cabinet for a 'position' to take and defend. But as bad as that is, it's still better than the utterly unhinged approach proposed by the leading jihadists. Patrick Minford is routinely trolleyed out to support their idea that we should all be prepared to default to WTO-only rules. It's so appealing to simpletons that it's been trotted out often enough by the jihadists on here. How many countries actually do this in the real world? One: Mauritania. A place with a tiny, broken economy...and quite a few jihadists. Perfect! Exactly.

Depressingly, it's entirely possible that some of May's cabinet - the jihadist leadership in particular - suffer from the paranoid delusions evident in this post. All the EU has demonstrated is a united, singular sense of purpose. It's the May regime that's shown itself incapable of agreeing with itself for a fraction of a minute. That's the true imbalance here. Brexit jihadists are also, it seems, quite literally acting like toddlers. They have undone the cognitive learning process that takes place at around the age of two when we all understand the idea of object permanence. Jihadists somehow think that by adopting a imagined stance of 'no deal' that the EU side will believe them. They don't. And not only do they not believe it; neither May nor Davis, nor anyone for that matter, has even once actually raised the threat of no deal with EU negotiators. The reality is that the 'no deal' rhetoric is fodder for Brexit jihadists here. It has no basis in negotiating reality, and it isn't going to happen. This doesn't weaken 'our' negotiating position. What really weakens it is the utter inaction, incompetence and internal squabbling in the May cabinet and wider Tory party that renders the UK's negotiating position utterly incomprehensible to anyone.

Ah, I see! That's a killer argument! How did I not see that? Just so I can quote it back to fellow remoaners, who've all clearly failed to grasp this, could you provide a link to someone with some influence on all this actually saying "we will accept any deal"? Or is that a teensy weeny bit of a straw man? Also, you still haven't said how you're going to keep this incredible secret from the EU negotiators, that the 'no deal' blather is a bluff. I mean, really, have the the EU not been running rings around the idiots in whom you have faith to deliver all this?

Threatening to jump off a cliff doesn't make you a clever negotiator. It makes you a suicidal lunatic. Yet how far we've travelled since the referendum. Every individual below is now one of those lunatics. "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market." Daniel Hannan MEP "Only a madman would actually leave the Market." Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing." Nigel Farage, Ukip leader "The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people." Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK." Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder So the question is: who's been fooled here? The EU negotiators, who - we're supposed to believe - have absolutely no idea that the May regime might be bluffing? Or referendum voters who were told by all the leading Brexiteers that - of course! - our full membership of the single market would stay in place after Brexit?

Here's a handy test to see if you're a Brexit Jihadist. If you're in favour of a no-deal no-deal - that is, no deal on the divorce and no deal on an FTA - you are bang (sorry) in the middle of the herd - an economic death cultist. A loud and proud Jihadist. If you're in favour of a deal no deal - that is, an agreement on divorce but none on FTA - you're just a confused tag-along straggler - a wannabe Jihadist, if you will. If you're in favour of a deal deal - agreement on divorce and FTA - you're going to be initially disappointed, and then in all likelihood out of a job. And if you're in favour of deal deal + full membership of the single market and customs union - then you're a Remoaner in a cunning disguise. Looking at the apoplectic state of the majority of Brexiteers on here, I'd say we've got enough Jihadists for MI5 to take an interest. HTH.

Are you slowly turning into a remoaner? You seem at least part of the way there. Now you just need to add a few things to this. Like the fact that 80% of the British economy is services, and so the most vital component of a successful service economy is wrapped up in the non-tariff barriers and frictionless movement (e.g. passporting) that is already unsurpassedly offered by the single market and the customs union. Any alternative - and I mean any known international goods and services agreement anywhere in the world - is inferior to this combination. May we sign you up to the non-Jihadist side of this debate?

The more you disappear into meaningless small print, Lord Pony, the more fatuous you look. Quit while you're only miles behind.

You really are desperate. That article by Davis, and therefore that claim, dates from 14 July 2016. It hardly invalidates Shylock's point.

What does this even mean? Four of those 'top ten economies' are in the EU! Besides, if the EU are 'utterly pathetic', where does that leave the US? It has a few more FTAs (14) but again only one with a top ten economy - the bottom one, Canada. And it's busily destroying even that.

Here you go, Pony. Clueless leaver Grayling on how it'll take 'a very short period time': https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/919841081063301120

You and other Jihadists should wait until you see tomorrow's lead story in the Telegraph's business section. The message will sink in eventually...

This (minus the weird last sentence; the OP might take it seriously and fall among the Lounge plankdom). Just got back from an extended whirl around Orangi Town (google it), so seeing this thread now I'm back is a bit of a head snap.

Did Sky tell you that? Or were you the one to tell Sky that you wanted two more years because you couldn't get the right side of your brain to agree with your left about what the **** it was you wanted in the first place?

Would you mind popping a ski mask on and recording this into a video camera? Because it really does read as utterly unhinged. The difference between Brexit Jihadists and normal people is really quite simple. If Jihadists had dropped their cultish fanaticism and instead made a convincing case for how we'd all be economically better off by being outside the EU, then many more of us would be in favour of Brexit. Prosperity is the cornerstone of a decent welfare state - austerity (and recession) its enemy. So who wouldn't get behind that? What we get instead is irrational wailing like this. You should try applying it to other things. Ring up Sky, tell them you're cancelling your subscription, but you still want to keep all the channels - and you want them to thank you for refusing to pay. All of us can point to flaws with the EU. Equally all of us can point to flaws with the British political system. But we don't throw a hissy fit and declare ourselves non-British, just because the UK's electoral system is in bad need of reform. So calm down, banish those fantasies about beheading Juncker, and find a route back to rational thought. Then we can talk.

So: The all-important Brexit bill is on hold because of multiple revolts; the country's finance minister, a moderate, is accused of the one thing that still attracts the death penalty; and the EU/UK talks are stalled largely because of needless 'red lines'. At what point do you Brexit Jihadists start to question the most incompetent political party in living memory? Tick tock.

Adjust your dog whistle, Lord Pony. Place all of Britain's Muslim population in a single neighbourhood and what colour, in general, do you think they'd be? Gosh, how can I possibly defend an opinion I don't agree with?

It did indeed. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/channel-4-british-muslims_uk_570badf0e4b0fa55639d65a9 The most damning quote from the pollsters is this: 'Not possible within the budget,' in this case, meant producing a poll that was bound to get a sensationalist write-up in the listings pages. Still, at least C4's dodgy poll pandered successfully to the brown-people-hating halfwits on here. Job done.

You've got this all wrong. Brexit Jihadists place the blame on everyone but themselves for any negative consequences of Brexit. They want their 72 virgins - WTO rules - and they want them NOW. Then we'll be in those sunny uplands that their caliphs have promised them.

So you can't say 'CN UT' now? He was one of our kings ffs!

The Brexit Jihadists' last resort for 'it's okay, really' - a consumer bubble. At least King **** was self-aware. Modern ****s have absolutely no clue.

Holy fu ck. The table on p.19 of this is scary (Trigger warning to Brexit Jihadists - you won't understand this, therefore will dismiss it as project fear). http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/853811484835908129/pdf/WPS7947.pdf

Says a pony trying to style it out.

You can bluster about all you like, but he's right. Your argument is moronic. And surprisingly it doesn't get less moronic by your repetition of it. By your measure, as someone who voted Labour in June I'm not a remoaner but a Brexiteer. Care to explain how I don't understand my own position on Brexit?

By throwing a few more millions onto the help/rent-to-buy pyre, apparently. And also by not firing Brexit Jihadist-in-chief BoJo, who's polished his street cred with Millennials by quoting a patronising colonial-infused poem by Kipling. That'll get the younger vote out for the Tories. Especially as they come to realise that the next leader of the Tory party wants a Brexit that drives the thickest wedge possible between Britain and the EU, in order to return to some kind of Kipling-esque Nirvana of Commonwealth countries lorded over by a new British Raj. It is entertaining, though, watching such a monumental (especially the last two syllables) case of someone inside the tent pi ssing in.

Is there a timetable for when the government will complete the negotiations with itself? Boris's latest intervention contradicts just about every point made in May's Florence speech.