Lallana's Left Peg

No fan cares about how good Saints are this season as long as we had six games in the Europe League. We haven't got that now because we look crap and the booster to this is that looking crap means this league season will in all likelihood be poor (lower half) after yet another summer where the harsh reality of the game has come home and we have lost our best players. Great.

I would have given anything to be there or at Vitesse. I won't get an opportunity again in well over a decade unless we win a cup.

Sheffield United away last season was one.

None of that means we play in the Europa League though. No fan cares about players to come back, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't change the shower of **** that was served up by two legs by those who played. It's quite frankly remarkable that Saints even had an opportunity to play in Europe this season after what happened last summer and we've somehow conspired to mess it up.

It'll never happen unless we win a cup.

It's going to suffer anyway - look at the state of the team right now. The regression is akin to Ipswich the season after they finished 5th.

Who no-one will want to sign

That is the worry though. I don't know that we are better than that. If it was a one off performance like Sheffield United away last season then the annoyance is at freezing in such a big game for the fans. But the undertone to being gutted at the result is that it is yet another terrible result and performance this season and the concern is can we get better? A worse team than last season, the money has been spent padding out the squad with inferior players who can't even carry us past a bunch of Danish part-timers and now we're saddled with a bloated squad and poor quality in the team. As gutting as it is to see our players go for big money at least we get to have those couple of seasons where they play well and the team do well. The more this goes on the more we're just slowly going back to being a lower-midtable team with nothing interesting going on.

Regardless of who we had out, it was a poor team selection - and, remarkably, an even worse performance. I said we would have to get better or we were out and it turns out we managed to get even worse and we were duly dumped out of a competition that was my only interest in this season. Now the prospect of a worse season than last beckons with a worse team. Not the clubs fault, but the very least we should have expected was Europa League group stages. Unacceptable.

He was not the only one to blame for tonight. The trouble is that he needs to find something he is very good at very soon as otherwise he is going to struggle to get the games he needs. He cannot find a way to get involved in a game and it is a real problem for him.

It reminded me of League 1 when we had better players than the opposition yet somehow got dragged down to their level and would lose the game. That happened loads too.

Passing will help all of those things. It means you have to tackle and close down less, and it means you create more chances and score more goals. It is the most important thing in football and appears to be the thing we've forgotten to do in the space of two months.

Regardless of who we had out, it was a poor team selection - and, remarkably, an even worse performance. I said we would have to get better or we were out and it turns out we managed to get even worse and we were duly dumped out of a competition that was my only interest in this season. Now the prospect of a worse season than last beckons with a worse team. Not the clubs fault, but the very least we should have expected was Europa League group stages. Unacceptable.

7 competitive games into the season and our passing still resembles a Cub Scout team. I guess we should be thankful that four of those games were in Europe, as had they all been league games then we'd be starring a relegation battle in the face based on this. 7 games is more than form, it's a real problem.

Yes - our friend David Bick.

When it goes quiet that is when things usually happen with Saints

Yes fair enough. How about this then: It makes him uninformed so I wouldn't take what he says on transfers as verbatim.

I'm not saying Wanyama is staying or going, but what Koeman says cannot be taken as truth. He said Toby was still going to join while the man himself was having a medical at Spurs.

We are incredibly easy to play against at the moment though when the opposition get men behind the ball and we play it all in front of them. We need to create space by having an over the top threat - even if we don't go long all the time, it'll prevent the game being condensed into small spaces where players can't find enough room to operate (especially as our passing at the moment is rank awful). I know what you are saying about in theory we should just play our game and it will come, but I don't think that is the best way to get a win tonight in these circumstances - not when away in Europe and we have to score. Our team is about confidence and momentum and when we don't have any the same players don't perform very well. It's night and day. That maybe why we went back to basics against Watford, and we should do the same tonight.

Pelle up top with Jay Rod, Long, and Mane behind him. Or even just Jay Rod and Long - plenty of movement and physicality to play direct. Needs must at this stage.

Martinez is right - it is about values. The right price and Stones will be sold!

The money will follow all of the big teams and then we will play in an inferior league. A really bad idea and very bad news for Saints.

There are LOTS of players out there with a better all round game than Wanyama who would cost less. There are very few players who are as good at the few things he excels at. As with most things, it's about how you want a team to play and the balance you achieve in doing so. Given the ridiculous turnover of players we have in our defence I would gladly take a £5m+ hit on Wanyama's value to keep him for this season given we really do need a DM with presence and mobility.

I think that is unfair - for a club of our size we get incredible fees for our players.

It is - Koeman and Jay Rod up.