Lallana's Left Peg

This guy

Forget about Man Utd, they aren't a competitor with us. Liverpool weren't either last summer, but now, hilariously, they are. Clyne wouldn't sign a new deal and Liverpool were the only team in the market for him. So our hands were tied there. We can't decide what club Toby signs for if he isn't ours, though I still feel we messed up somewhere there along the line. Cork we should have kept and it was a mistake to only offer him a new deal with 6 months left on his. We should have kept him.

Yes I'm fully aware of that, but as I said, he is one of their best players and plays in central midfield. Clyne is a full-back and was not one of our best players.

Wow, just £7m. He's one of their best players as well. Makes you respect the fees we get for our players.

Sunday League

He's never been one for deft of touch though, I'll be more interested to see how he mentally copes with contact and how fast he really is when he gets that big stride of his going. Les Reed said that Jay Rod has turned into a helluva athlete through his rehabilitation, so all eyes on Jay.

I don't think so, but I posted a link to a potential stream earlier in the thread.

Yeah I think he was a left back by trade until a few appearances at centre half this season and then he quickly got promoted to the U21's. He looks quite good.

But then what about all this legal action stuff? Was it press fabrication or did we think we had a legal right to something we had no legal right for?

Lets hope he is, because on the face of it we could have had one for £10m

I don't think we'll replace Elia, and I still think we also need to replace Cork. We need three defensive midfielders (with Reed coming through).

That we didn't play it right, that we dallied, and that we created a situation that allowed Spurs to get the player. Of course, that could just be speculation and easy for them to say after the event. But it felt really easy for Spurs to get this deal done. Too easy.

It's possible, though I'd like to think Koeman and Reed have been around long enough and have enough ears to the ground to work out things properly. Journo's on twitter saying Saints messed this up. Hard to substantiate but it feels like we dropped the ball here.

So, what on earth was this legal right stuff about then? Did we mess up?

Whether you get animated about it or not, asking the question is because you believe something went wrong and the club could be criticised for it. I'll wait until Spurs announce the deal before I ask what all this 'legal right' ******** was about - as we either messed up believing we were entitled or backed down like a little *****. The alternative of course is that we pursue legal action which would be a good laugh.

The way that both Koeman and Reed talked about injuries to Bertrand AND Mugabi meant that Martina was signed - as though perhaps he can indeed cover at left back. At least that is how I interpreted it.

I'd think the same no matter who he signed for - if the club are going to communicate as they have about him signing then they set expectations - unless we take the default that any communication from the club is rubbish. But I'd prefer not to think that way and think we have a bit more nous as a club. The only exception would be if a club came in for him at the last minute. But I believe that Spurs were said to be interested in him in May, therefore I don't think they were a last minute deal type thing.

The club didn't talk about hopes - they talked fairly black and white about the situation. I don't think this was a cursory 'we'd like to sign Toby', it was very much a 'we believe he wants to join us and we think we're favourites to'. And of course **** happens, and of course we aim to achieve things and we don't. And whether or not Toby signs isn't significant in my life either, but as we all want Saints to do well when the club talk about things we look at the tone of the message and want to understand whether or not its an expectation. There was far too much noise coming out of the club around Toby to make me think the club believed anything other than they were favourites to sign him. So when it goes tits up I think the club are worthy of criticism - or at least a question being asked of: What happened? I don't just blindly think 'ok, whatever' because clearly something went wrong somewhere.

That's not an answer to my question. If the club is to say things publicly and they don't happen, then they will get criticised. As would any club / business etc. But you seem to suggest they shouldn't be for it?

The club cannot control what Toby does. The club can control the messages they give to the fans. They said - as recently as Monday (the day he apparently had the first part of his medical at Spurs) - that they believed he wanted to join. As a fan I of course understand the reasons why he would want to join Spurs. Location, money, better team etc. - all fair and valid reasons. No need to be upset about that. What I don't like is when my club start to give public messages about no player being sold until we have a new Manager and then 48hrs later Rickie Lambert sold when we have no Manager, when they say they are confident that Clyne will sign a new deal and then he doesn't, and when they repeatedly say (and leak to the media) that they are confident Toby will sign and he wants to join and then he signs for Spurs. All that misinformation heightens expectations and definitely increases disappointment when the opposite happens. It would have been far easier to deal with it if we kept our mouths shut.

So when Saints leak to the media they are confident of signing a player, and when Saints themselves through the Manager say the player wants to sign, and then said player joins another club for what appears on the face of it to be a fee and wages we can afford, you just automatically assume that's ok and the club is immune from criticism for it?

The Board / club leaked to their media contacts that they were confident of signing Toby. That starts to set some expectations with fans. Our Manager said the player wanted to join us. That starts to set some expectations with fans. Toby is signing with Spurs. They can be for all of the valid reasons you suggested. But the club sort of set themselves up here for a bit of criticism, don't you think?

Potential stream: http://www.gofeed2all.eu/watch/355283/1/watch-rb-leipzig-vs-southampton.html

If he simply preferred Spurs and was never going to join Saints then that is fair enough, but I wish Koeman had kept his mouth shut about the player wanting to join us and the club leaking information to that effect as well. If he would have happily joined us but Spurs stole a march on us because we thought we were being clever with some legal clause stuff then that is deeply disappointing, moreso given the relatively low fee for a player of his quality. Lessons to be learned one way or another. Lets hope his replacement is anywhere near as good.

If that was the case it would be nice for the club (and club leaks) to stop talking about how he would be happy to join Saints and we're trying to sign him and believe we're entitled to. It makes us look stupid. If he's chosen Spurs then it makes this legal battle a little more fun for me - a chance to screw Atletico and / or Spurs for a bit.