badgerx16

I certainly don't think the ones our son works for are.

Francis

487:1 and counting.

Shark

Adam Crozier; "Whatever the difficulties, if people genuinely felt there were problems, they should have said something.' They did, Adam, but they were then accused of lying and sent to prison.

No. I was listing a number of people who had been accused and convicted of being terrorists, whilst their supporters viewed them as freedom fighters. ( 3 of those 4 were associated with opposing British colonial rule ), hence the "One man's terrorist......"' quote. It is a matter of personal perspective and experience. If you want to find somebody to justify Hamas go find a Palestinian.

I agree, but I'm not Palestinian. Then again Archbishop Makarios, Nelson Mandela, Menachim Begin, Martin McGuiness.........

"One man's terrorist....."'

And until these discussions take place further expansion of the settlements continues. I accept that one easy PR win for Hamas is to release the remaining hostages, but will Israel stop the settlements ? However the discussions/ negotiations go, every day brings more Israelis in the West Bank who will fight tooth and nail against eviction.

And where would the Palestinians be living ? Without the West Bank and probably Gaza how can there be a 2 state solution ?

If you were a Palestinian living currently on the West Bank, seeing your land forcibly taken away and settled by illegal incomers, being sniped at by those same people whilst the Police stand by and watch, would you just sit on your hands and accept your fate ?

Whilst Israel effectively occupy the West Bank and continue to build illegal settlements why should they ?

In 1947 would you have supported it? If so, why ? Hindsight is such a wonderful gift.

Who are these "'good guys' ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres

Somebody has to speak for them, and realistically it should be their choice. Regardless, it is moot whilst Netanyahu's coalition is in power.

It was a quick and dirty solution to try to sideline the problems arising from the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and later the end of WW2. The British were the colonial power post 1918, and up to 1947 were the target of Jewish terrorism, led by many future Israeli political leaders. Personally, given my more modern aspect and knowledge probably not, but then that would bring a whole load of new problems. I would probably have given Faisal what he was promised, but the British at the time were arrogant and dismissive of the "'fuzzies"'. As I said, looking back and playing thought games can be great fun, but the issues are in the "'here and now"'.

Convoluted ? What would you do, oh great and wise one ?

With the current Israeli Government, yes.

But would you be operating in 1947 with advanced knowledge of what was to come ? Hypothetical thought games are great fun, but solve nothing; do you ignore the Balfour Declaration, what do you do with thousands upon thousands of displaced Jews in post-Holocaust Europe. ? What if, in 1919, the British had granted Prince Faisal the Kingdom they promised for his support in fighting the Ottomans ? We are where we are, and somebody, somehow, has to knit a solution out of the current fog of hatred and violence.

You cannot undo 1947, so what you have to do is somehow persuade both sides to compromise. Israel within the pre 6 day war borders, Jerusalem as an "open"' city - Holy for all 3 Abrahamic faiths, and International recognition and guarantee of Palestine within the West Bank, might be an option, but then agsin I might be a Martian.

It was a rhetorical post aimed at the repeated jibe "Do you believe in the formation of Israel ?". Israel cannot exist without the displacement of Palestinians, whether it be the within the 1947, 1967, or 1974 borders, so where do the Palestinians go, and are they justified in feeling aggrieved ? The fact of the matter is that 2 opposing groups of people want control of the same bit of land, and use religion as their justification for whatever actions they deem necessary.

Do you agree that Palestinians have the right to self-determination on land they can call their own ?

Descendants of one of the characters portrayed in the new Wolf Hall complaining that their ancestor is being played by an Egyptian actor.

What if you had asked them before Oct 7th and the subsequent levelling of Gaza ?