badgerx16

No they don't, they ran away. They'll return to some version of whatever civilian life they had before they signed up.

Ray

Saddam was yet another bastard of a dictator who developed a sense of invulnerability because the West armed and suported him against one of their perceived pariah states - in his case the Iran Iraq war. Ironically, once he started getting too big for his boots the CIA started covertly arming Iran as well.

In the context it was completely unwarranted. As I said, you couldn't resist. Whether it's you or Turkish. you always manage to introduce snide, smarmy, digs into every thread.

That would require US foreign policy makers to show common sense and a touch of humanity.

How many do you accept, under what criteria ? It could be tens and tens of thousands. There was a story of one translator who was refused a visa because he lacked "meritorious conduct" - he had been previously caught smoking in a non-smoking area of the base he was serving in. I understand that people see this as abandoning the population of the country, but the exit was always likely to be an omnishambles, as we have seen with previous US led military interventions.

What should the US have done differently ? Biden said during the Presidential election that he would stick to Trump's withdrawal p!an - in fact he extended it as Trump said all US troops would be out by May 1st, ( despite the bollox he is now spouting as he yet again revises history ). There were just 5000 US troops in the country, the Afghan army was over 300k, equipped with top grade modern weaponry, and trained. by the most professional militaries in the World. All security tasks were being undertaken by the Afghans. Even without the agreement with the Taliban, sooner or later the US and it's allies would have had to leave and demonstrate faith in the local regime, or risk a resurgence of fighting.

I suppose one thing this thread shows is how difficult foreign policy can be.

Gentlemen

I would imagine (2) under the guise of "We have given them the training and the equipment, it is now their fight if they want to retain the progress we have helped them acheive". The biggest issue is whether the US and it's allies were truly confident in the ability of Ghani to unite and govern the country without the US Marines stood behind him. The Taliban never went away and were quite happy playing the long game knowing that sooner or later US donestic public opinion would swing away from a war so far away from home. ( Much as Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam realised - the biggest weapon in the insurgent's arsenal was the US media. Constant pictures of explosions and stories of dead and wounded US soldiers undermine any rhetoric the Whitehouse and Pentagon churn out ).

So, what could we have done differently ? The US chose to pull out, they were fed up of their "second Vietnam". We had no choice but to leave with them.

You really are being an idiot. I am not 'celebrating' a political disaster that puts thousands of people at risk and will throw the social progress of the last 20 years out of the window. The facts are ; 1) that the US has done what the US always does - looks after it's own interests. The country is fundamentally isolationist at heart. 2) Afghanistan is the latest in a string of US led interventions in muslim countries where there was never a coherent consolidation and stability plan to be introduced after the military blitz. 3) The people of Afghanistan deserve better from their leaders, but the country has always been riven by factionalism based on tribal rivalries and religious conservatism. No amount of western interference is going to change that.

Don't be a twat. Read the reports coming out of the country. People have been saying for years that they are sick of paying bribes for every interaction with government officials and judicial processes.

Including the Taliban sleepers who have infiltrated them. A lot of people are welcoming them back because they see them as being straight dealing, as opposed to the heavily corrupt regime we were propping up.

I am not reacting after 1 game. I am reacting after 27 games.

.....

He is President of the USA. Domestic public opinion is everything.

How ?

Come on then. Why slate Biden for pulling out 5000 troops when his predecessor pulled out twice as many and signed the agreement with the Taliban. As I asked previously, given the withdrawal agreement had been signed and with public opinion supporting it, what was Biden supposed to do ?

Where have I shown myself to be an apologist ? Everything I have posted on this thread has been fact rather than opinion. Afghanistan is a non-state due to tribal factionalism. Are you suggesting that we and the US should have continued to send our military to an unwinnable war in perpetuity ?

Of course it did, but on that basis any manager who has a reasonable run of form can never be sacked when it goes tits up for 27 matches. Are you saying that Ralph gets a completely clean slate for this season ?

When Biden became President there were less than 5000 US troops in Afghanistan. What was he supposed to do - send more back in in violation of Trump's agreement ? That would have given the Taliban a green light to break their ceasfire.

Trump signed the withdrawal agreement.

Hoof

When we run out of energy Ralph refuses to make substitutions.