Wes Tender

You really don't know? SISA and the Saints Trust for a start and some people who used to hold positions of influence in those organisations who purported to speak on behalf of the fans. The sort of individual who gets hauled in front of a camera when a lazy Echo journalist wants to know what the fans think of anything topical in connection with the Club, following which there is an avalanche of posts on here saying that he doesn't speak for them, that nobody elected him as our spokesperson, etc.

Three mentions of the word decent in just two sentences! Are you attempting to imply by stealthy psychological subterfuge that the word decent can be applied to matters regarding your poxy, festering little cesspit of a club?

Harding. I fail to see how Fox was value for what he cost, at least as a LB.

I don't see anything remotely wrong in agreeing with the sentiments of the general thrust of Crab Lung's post and if you are amazed that five people agree with it and wish to label those in general agreement as bed-wetters, then you are entitled to your opinion and count me amongst them too. I know exactly the type of person that Crabby refers to and although as you say hardly anybody has mentioned the fan on the board idea recently, that was one thing that was espoused by these people amongst several other items on their wish list. You say that it is not a bad idea having a supporter advising the club, but who would that be? And would their views mirror those of the majority of the fans? I think not. Those ideas have been passed by because of events, but the faction that espoused them rear their ugly heads from time to time, bemoaning the fact that they are not important anymore and have no influence over other fans. Like the OP and his feeble attempt to conjure up discontent when there is none, they are an irrelevance.

So Cardiff played one striker up front because of injuries and one who had only scored one goal this season at that. Thank God they didn't have a fully fit team then. Typical that that striker managed to treble his goals so far at our expense, but I doubt that he will encounter such easy opportunities normally as those presented on a plate to him by our lack-lustre defence. Richardson was the only one who came out of it with any real credit. Jos seemed to have been having an immense game until his lapse, but Fox didn't have a good game and I long for Harding's return to replace him. If Fox plays ahead of him, fair enough, but Harding is clearly the better defender. Fonte gave away a series of free kicks on the edge of the box and thankfully we were not punished for it. Kelvin wasted lots of time with his clearances and then when we went behind twice, we rued the time lost. He was at fault for the first goal, either not coming out fast enough, or staying back enough to make it more difficult for Miller. The defence were carved open too easily for the secong goal. Would Miller have got past Jaidi for his first? As for the other end of the pitch, we seem to be firing blanks too often in the past couple of matches, Lallana having missed about three free headers and even Lambert missing what would normally be gilt-edged chances. Those opportunities put away would have won those games, so disappointing that they both seem to have hit a patch where they are mis-firing. And Lambert's free kicks seem to have been handed over to Fox, whose results in that department have not impressed. Seems ages since Lambert put a free kick away. We've done very well early in the season and are still top after this defeat. But one point out of six is not good, so we need to get back to winning ways on Saturday before confidence starts to suffer.

Is he better than Harding going forward? I'd say equal, although I agree with you that Harding is generally the better defender. It might be very interesting having Fox ahead of Harding and overlapping him occasionally. It used to be fun watching the overlap with Bridge? and Marsden some years back. I wonder, could these two do something similar and to such good effect?

Well said Alpine. As you point out, against a background of almost unparalled success on the pitch, the club well run and financially secure, you have to wonder at those who seem to be driven by personal agendas in an attempt to rock the boat. But if the situation were to be analysed and the dissenting voices counted on the other threads, it would become clear that they are in a small minority, but very vocal, giving the mistaken impression that there are more of them. Looking at the original thread recently, the one where NC had his interview with the Sun, the initial response was overwhelmingly in favour of NC and the way that he ran the club. And then when Stelling jumped in with both feet with his unprofessional intervention, there was the opportunity for the disgruntled minority to vent their spite and bile. And so it snowballed with a story in the Saints fans' forum equivalent of the News of the World, something based largely on hearsay and written by somebody with an obvious agenda against the current regime here and relayed onto this forum by another individual whose past record has been one of petty denigration of NC. But how many of these vindictive individuals are there posting on here? You can probably count them on the fingers of both hands. They are nobodies and although they bleat continously at every opportunity, most ignore their opinions, because they have heard them many, many times before.

I enjoyed massively watching MLT the player and am eternally grateful for the part he played in keeping us in the Premiership for so long and against all the odds. He is arguably the greatest player this club has ever produced. But that doesn't mean that he is somehow immune from criticism for his actions in any involvement in matters affecting the club when he has long since ceased to be a player. And it is also possible for an individual to defame their own good name without help from others. Where sensible people can acknowledge that Cortese has done a great job in many areas, but is not above criticism in others, why should the same not apply to MLT, L Mac?

What affects the buying of merchandise or attendance more than anything else, is success on the pitch. Which we do seem to be achieving at the moment.

You say that the fact that the "quotes" were direct quotes because they were in inverted commas somehow validates them, but it does not show the context in which they were made, or the questions that were asked to gain those responses. In the absence of those questions from the Sun journo, I'll have a stab at the sort of question that could have led to those responses and hopefully show how it could appear that the subject was in fact instigated by the Sun, not NC. =============================================================================================================================== Cortese says he is not "confrontational" but he has also clashed with former Saints manager McMenemy and legend Le Tissier. Journo: I hear that there has been some discord amongst certain factions who were involved with the club before you arrived, notably there has been criticism aimed at you by MLT and Lawrie Mac? NC: "Yes, Lawrie McMenemy and Matt Le Tissier have criticised me but they should know no one is more important than the club. Journo: I understand that part of that criticism arose because some of those formerly in positions of influence at the club felt that they should be accorded privileges, such as free tickets to home matches. Is that right? NC: "I simply couldn't accept all these people trying to get freebies here, freebies there. Journo: Surely they have given enough to the club in the past to warrant some special treatment? NC: "Listen, if I pay for my season ticket then I expect everyone to pay for their ticket too. Journo: I suspect that that is a position that will not be popular with the fans. After all, these people were and probably still are revered by most fans for what they contributed to the club's history. NC: "And I'm not interested in being popular, I'm focused on making this club successful." After which he might well have added that it was the history of the club that had brought it to the attention of him and then ML, but that in more recent times, financial profligacy had taken the club into administration and tighter control was now required. to ensure that the club had a more successful future. =================================================================================================================================== You say that this isn't a question of Stelling escalating matters, but I agree with Um Pahars; Stelling did go steaming in wearing his size 12 boots and that his intervention was unwaranted and unecessary.

As others have expressed surprise at this apparently widespread opinion that NA was the best man to take on the job, perhaps you would kindly point us all in the direction of the numerous quotes in the media that you refer to. If you cannot furnish us with these quotes, I will take it that you are talking bullsh*t, in an effort to minimise the importance of the decision that NC made in bringing him in when many others were being connected to the job in the media. I take it that you do not dispute with the benefit of hindsight that the appointment was inspired? Obviously though it just wrankles with you that credit for the appointment must go to NC and his advisors.

I can find common ground with most of these thoughts. There is enough cynicism about it that I can find sympathy with. A cynical mindset comes with maturity and experience of life, that gifts us with the benefit of hindsight and learning from our past mistakes. There are probably several shades of grey involved in all of this and anybody who believes it is all black and white and polarised in favour of one faction or the other is deluded.

My comment was about the professionalism (or lack of it) displayed by Stelling. We have your opinion as to whether NC showed good judgement or not, even whether you deemed his comments to be necessary or not, suggesting that you are in possession of the facts regarding the background and context of those comments. I don't see any qualification for your comments along the lines of "If the journalist asked this, or queried that aspect, then your conclusion would be x,y, or z....." But as my post was regarding Stelling and you commented on NC's judgement, perhaps you could also express an opinion on whether Stelling has shown good judgement, taking the word of his mate and the journo from the Red Top rag as the gospel truth, without bothering presumably to ask NC for his side of things?

As you rightly say, nobody on here knows for sure the background for the comments by NC or the context for them. Yet some are prepared to act as if they do and arrive at conclusions that they are therefore not entitled to make. Thank God that the justice system in this country allows for reasonable doubt and precludes circumstantial evidence, only allowing evidence that can proven to be factual. There seems to be precious little of that in this debate.

So if you honestly believe that somebody like Stelling can go off on a rant in defence of a mate without presumably asking for a balancing comment from the other side of the fence, then that smacks to me of a personal agenda and therefore unprofessional. Apparently you do not see the difference between expressing an opinion on whether a team needs a new goalkeeper, whether a manager might have reached the limits of his capability to take a team any further and a situation where he probably does not know the entire background and is therefore prepared to go off at half-cock because of personal loyalties. But still, if you're happy with that and don't question the lack of professionalism in it, then good for you. Each to their own.

Exactly. It was totally unprofessional of him. I presume that when he is commenting on other football matters, he takes the trouble to present a balanced view, making some attempt to hear the other side of the argument. It is not his remit to take the side of one of his mates and openly express opinions on matters where he doesn't know the entire background, in the national media. In future, I'll just have to accept that any opinions expressed by him on other matters might also be as poorly grounded and one-sided because the story involves a mate of his, or is influenced by tittle tattle in a Red Top rag. MLT is a big boy and perfectly capable of speaking for himself. It would be pleasing to think that MLT told him to butt-out, but if the Stelling intervention was agreed by both of them, then that would be reprehensible.

Well, it is the Sun. What did you expect?

"NICOLA CORTESE dares to be different and does not care if that upsets people." See, Hypo and Docker; he couldn't give a damn about you. And frankly, neither can most of us on here, judging by the majority consensus who share his ambitions.

I can't get the link open either, but have gleaned enough from the comments on it here to get the general gist of it. It is good to have NC reiterate the club's ambitions and having read through the thread, I note that there are only one or two individuals who seem to make it their life's work to try and find the negatives in a sea of positives. Sensible, mature individuals accept that nobody is perfect, but some who constantly moan at the imperfections of others, should have a good hard look in the mirror. As "the Mick Channon Windmill" said so eloquently in his post, it seems that regardless of how successful we become, there will always be some small-minded individuals who will never be satisfied. Perhaps the time has come when these people should be asked outright to tell us all who they would prefer to be running the club and in the absence of a response, they should be told to accept that we are currently being run by the best people and to stop grousing.

When we bought him from Sunderland, all their fans laughed their heads off at the money we had wasted on him and some said that they would have driven him down here and been happy if they'd given him away for free. There was a case that could be made out that he was a good keeper whose confidence had taken a massive knock because of the amateur defending in front of him when Sunderland were relegated having let in a bucketful of goals that season. But Kelvin buckled down and applied himself, gradually building his confidence and that of the defence with his natural ability and restored his reputation as a decent keeper. Like most keepers, he has his strengths and weaknesses, but as a shot-stopper he is immense and there are few I'd prefer to have between the sticks in a penalty shoot-out.

I realised that it was wind-up. Did you miss the irony in my post?

Stay away and do somethig else with your Saturdays then. I doubt you'd be missed, either at the match, or on here.

But they didn't live as lions; they lived like hyenas. But they're too thick to know the difference. Metaphorically, the lion is a noble beast, so that is a million miles away from them and their behaviour. I have raised the same thing with some of my business contacts who are Skates and they take the same view of the whole sordid episode. They also say that yes, the club was on the brink of oblivion, but they went to Wembley 6 times, or however times it was. In the same way, their total lack of morality and understanding of ethics means that they couldn't care less whether they are owned by gun-running child maimers, fake sheiks, loan sharks or the Russian mafia. Totally and utterly thick, most of them. It has been good to know that our club stands on the moral high ground during that period and whereas they might rejoice that they held a higher league position than us for a handfull of seasons, we can look down on them and have a good laugh at the pantomime that is their club.

I would dispute that any of the 20 Premiership clubs were a step up from us. There will be three clubs that will be relegated from the Premiership last season, as there were this season. It could be argued that we are better than at least some of those teams relegated last year, or showing signs of becoming victims of the drop this season. Then it is again arguable that we are a bigger club than some of those currently in the Premiership. Does league position solely determine whether a club is a step up or not, or should factors such as ground capacity, attendances, infrastructure, ambition, etc, have a bearing on it?

I did it a couple of times last season and no problem with them printing out a free ticket each time, once that they had checked up on identity.