Wes Tender

s mears. It's really quite appropriate considering the tosh you serve up.

Surely not. His dad is a football manager who would have been able to have afforded a decent education for his son. Certainly somebody with a half decent education would be capable of making a better fist of the basic rules of grammar and punctuation in his posts.

Go on then, produce the evidence. Put up or shut up, both you and leftback. You're both all full of p*ss and wind.

I was just giving a gentle ribbing based on what your predictions were at the beginning of the season. Your opinion was at the time that your team was better than ours and would beat us. I recall that a lengthy debate was had about the potency of your strikers against ours, the strength in midfield was compared, the defences analysed, etc. You concluded that SW were the stronger team. Mind you, neither of us would have predicted then that ML would be dead, that Pardew would be gone for us. But as for the run of poor results you have had, you know better than me whether it has affected your team to the extent that they have been incapable of winning matches that they were favourites for at the beginning of the season, as were we.

Seems a bit of a turnaround to me, perhaps coming as a result of us failing to beat Yeovil. But as you are so ready to expound the prowess of Pardew, let's for the sake of balance examine his record of last season against some similarly lowly teams, shall we? How about our loss to Brighton 3-1 at home? Our loss to Colchester 2-1 away? Away draws, 1-1 against Brentford and Exeter? The away draw 0-0 against Wycombe Wanderers? The defeat 2-1 away against Tranmere? Beaten at home 1-0 by Swindon (second defeat by them last season) The home draw against Oldham? The away defeat by Gillingham 2-1? So would Pardew have gained us the win against Yeovil last night? Who knows? But Adkins was correct in his appraisal, that had we kept possession by playing to our strengths with a neat passing game, instead of hoofing the ball upfield (something that unfortunately characterised Pardew's teams), then we might have kept the three points and not given away the penalty. Nobody can say with any degree of certainty that Pardew would have fared any better than Wilkins, let alone Adkins, so I do wish that people would stop claiming that he would have. As for the Bristol Rovers result, one goal was scored by Lallana before he was injured in that same game and Lambert had a penalty, which even as off form as he is currently, he was unlikely to miss. Barnard also scored. Much of this criticism stems from the situation that results have been harder to come by because Lallana was injured since then, Barnard missed 4 games through suspension, Lambert still isn't back in form and that there have been other distractions both off and on the pitch to unsettle the team. Most of that is behind us and if Adkins can get us playing more attractive passing football, I have faith in his ability to turn it all around, with plenty of time still remaining.

You're usually a bit more objective than this LGTC. Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous making these comparisons without balance? For example, how do you think Pardew would have fared without Lallana and Barnard? Do you believe that Lambert would have been transformed because Pardew was still here, or do you think that Lambert's form up to that point of the season was indicative of him being off colour? And as for the implied comparison with Adkins, when he has had the full season in charge too, then that will be the time to compare his record with Pardew's. Personally, I reckon that Adkins record will be the better one.

Get a job - Alfred Marks Get set - Onya Marks

The World would be a much better place if people followed the doctrines of Groucho rather than those of Karl - discuss.

You've obviously forgotten that we have a Portuguese player, Fonte, in the team.

Of course you're perfectly entitled to express an opinion. But you really ought to be aware that if you give it out, you have to expect to get it back. So you think that Cortese is a sh*te, partly based on hearsay from staff working at the club. But it couldn't be that as with most organisations there are slackers and shoddy workers and they are a bit upset for him taking them to task, could it? If you want to base your opinions on tittle-tattle, go ahead. But don't expect others to give credence to opinions without a concrete basis of fact. My post count on here is under 4 a day average. I don't post on any other forum, despite your suggestion that I do. If that is what you rank as obsessive, then that's up to you. But as I work for myself, I often have a bit of spare time between busy periods. Typically though, you don't know me, but feel perfectly qualified to express an opinion as to what my life is like.

So what happened to that Sheffield Wednesday team that was better than ours, tartanowl? I wasn't at the match and only listened on the radio, which naturally had an element of bias. But it seems that once we had scored and especially after Lallana had come on, the team received a big lift and were playing with more confidence. On the other hand, I could hear your fans booing, which won't be helpful for that game or the next ones unless you turn things around. Although we can point to several factors that might have caused our dip in form, the death of ML, the change of manager, the injury to Lallana, Barnard's ban, Lambert being off colour, presumably apart from your precarious financial position, there is little else to account for your poor run of form that would equate to ours, is there? Now we have the win and against a team that is expected to be amongst the top in the division this season, our confidence will have received a massive boost. Nigel Adkins seems to be well liked and respected by the players and there are signs that we are going to be playing a more attractive brand of football with fit players under him. Barnard will now be much more confident and hopefully Lambert will start firing on all cylinders too. Lallana makes a bigger difference to us than many realise and if he can stay fit, we should start to climb the table.

I've heard several people say that you are too. Are you?

You sound like a very bitter guy for some reason. I felt that the story told me a great deal about Markus Liebherr, but I guess you can't please everybody. You obviously have an agenda against Bicks, so pardon me if I dismiss your opinions as not worth reading.

So he brought his family over here to the UK, completely relocating his children and his wife from their settled environment to pursue this vision that he and his friend shared. And you reckon that he did it without first examining every facet and possible outcome? And quite what experience of the man leads you to conclude that he is a quitter who will cut and run when the going gets tough, I do not know. Perhaps you are basing this possibility on your experiences of others you have met in business. But have you had very much contact with Swiss bankers before? Frankly, my experience of meeting any Swiss or Italian Swiss businessmen, although limited, leads me to the belief that most are meticulous people who like to see their projects through to a successful conclusion.

#hughieslastminutegoal: Cortese is a successful and intelligent businessman. Now, you and I realise that costs increase exponentially the higher up the football pyramid you go. Do you really believe that Cortese does not realise that, or that he would not have been advised of it even before ML and he bought into us? I suspect that not only is he entirely aware of the increase in expenditure higher up the divisions, but that is a prime reason for the investment into the academy so that some of that cost can be dissipated by bringing through our own players.

I'm with you on this. Nobody has an obligation to have respect for anybody else's opinion, only their right to express it. It is a distinction that seems to have become blurred.

Originally Posted by Wes Tender Most Saints fans are intelligent enough to think beyond those figures and dismiss them for what they are, but perhaps you are not. Was it an insult? You seem to have placed a lot of faith in those figures and yet others have done a fine job of dismissing the contextual irrelevance of them. But perhaps it is they who are mistaken about the significance of them, eh?. Originally Posted by Wes Tender And it is totally disingenuous anyway to use those figures in an effort to back up a statement that the vast majority of fans were happy with AP or that it was only a minority who thought that it was a good idea to sack him. Again, as commented elsewhere, perhaps not as unhappy as to demonstrate, but not ecstatic either. Originally Posted by Wes Tender By doing so, you make at least two assumptions that you are not entitled to make; that you believe that the results since his departure would have been any different and that everybody knows the reasons for his sacking. Nobody can make those assumptions in the first case and only those who have the facts of his dismissal in the second case. Again, the poster who pointed out that the lower the division we are in, the easier it is to gain a better win ratio, is spot on, especially given that we not only had a manager experienced at a higher level, but one who also had money at his disposal. And regarding the other point, just because something is reported on the OS, does not make it a fact. Call me a cynic, but I take most things with a pinch of salt. I admit the possibility that there might have been other reasons, but that it was expedient to all that it be presented differently. I have no evidence to support that theory, but neither do I totally accept that the official position is necessarily correct either. Originally Posted by Wes Tender And as Pardew had over a year to achieve his win ratio and didn't exactly get off to a flying start himself, I suggest that to give any credence to your figures that Adkins be allowed the same time span, in the interests of balance, you understand. Thanks for the admission at least that time needs to be given to Pardew's successor before any comparisons are made about how good his record was at this level and with the resources available to him. And that goal drought record - how many games have we had so far under Adkins? And you can state with absolute confidence that Pardew would have won those games we lost, can you, even without Lallana and Barnard and Lambert off-colour? And did I make any mention of Lowe, or indeed Cortese? Likewise I hope that we turn a corner on Saturday and begin our climb up the table.

Most Saints fans are intelligent enough to think beyond those figures and dismiss them for what they are, but perhaps you are not. In fact they are the equivalent of having one burglary in an area last year and saying that because there had been two this year, crime had doubled in that area. And it it totally disingenuous anyway to use those figures in an effort to back up a statement that the vast majority of fans were happy with AP or that it was only a minority who thought that it was a good idea to sack him. By doing so, you make at least two assumptions that you are not entitled to make; that you believe that the results since his departure would have been any different and that everybody knows the reasons for his sacking. Nobody can make those assumptions in the first case and only those who have the facts of his dismissal in the second case. And as Pardew had over a year to achieve his win ration and didn't exactly get off to a flying start himself, I suggest that to give any credence to your figures that Adkins be allowed the same time span, in the interests of balance, you understand.

Well, I sincerely hope that Cortese is here for years and years. And if that annoys you to hell, then so much the better. Football IS a business and Cortese and Liebherr bought it as a business. Where do you get the impression that they thought they were buying the soul of the club? They stated right at the beginning that they realised they were only custodians of the club. If you're going to go off on a wind-up, at least do your research properly and then you might have more credibility.

I'm not a lawyer, but I fail to see why Bailiffs would have been appointed while the parking charge was in dispute. It is suggestive that somehow you have not followed the proper appeal procedure. I appealed a parking fine by Southampton Council and although it took months, I won the case. At no time during that procedure were bailiffs even mentioned. Read up this http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10034289 and the link referring to parking fines. That even says that the bailiffs might not be empowered to clamp your car, although they say to contact them for advice. Again, no legal training on my part, but I wonder what the legal implications would be of you removing the parking clamp on your vehicle as it was parked on your private property.

You mentioned him three times by name and once more as "he". I realise that you would have loved to have devoted the entire thread to him, but that you showed remarkable restraint and restricted it to just the four mentions. Well done.

Ah, so you're not capable of coming up with any sensible suggestions of your own. It's easy to just type inane insults, isn't it? A group of people singing together is effectively a choir of sorts. But then you wouldn't realise that.

sent this and then read your post. If it's bull****, then perhaps you'll be wanting to put up or shut up yourself with your suggestions, won't you?

This old chestnut keeps rearing its head again and again and I'm sure that it will continue to do so until some positive action is taken. There are a few options that come into my head, although whether they are viable and would work I don't know. The most obvious action, but probably the most difficult to put into effect, is to all intents and purposes a choir practice. A venue could be arranged and anybody who likes to sing would attend and agreement could be reached about what songs can be sung and at what speed. Otherwise, if there are complaints that those who effectively set the beat by banging the backboards are too fast for the chants, then somehow the message needs to get across to them to slow it down. Otherwise, although I don't approve of it myself, we need a couple of drummers to bang out a sensible beat which could then be taken up by the board bangers. Another suggestion is to have a permanent thread on here devoted exclusively to chants for the players and the team, but which would also accomodate new chants/songs for specific matches and rival teams and also current events that relate to who we are playing. If there are suggestions on that thread that strike a chord with most, then there will be an impetus towards more diversity. If the words of a new chart needed to be spread around at a match because sometimes it is difficult to hear or remember the words, then it is a simple matter to print off a few hundred copies to spread around a section of the crowd. Otherwise, the pre-match pubs could be a good place for groups to practice new songs suggested on here and then to start them up at the grounds to catch on with others around them.

I think that you might have discerned that there are those who have indicated that they are part of the Northam stand and who have contributed to the debate. As you have had the temerity to suggest that the songs lack originality, perhaps you would care to suggest some novel and original songs and chants yourself. Otherwise, if you are not capable of coming up with some original and pithy material yourself, how can you expect others to do it who are in the Northam? I await your best efforts. And for those who criticise the Northam for not generating as much atmosphere as formerly, others have responded well by stating that if it were not for the Northam, the ground would be almost like a graveyard or a library.