Wes Tender

A little research into his past career unearthed the following about him on Wikopedia:- "He was later signed by Perugia (at that time belonging to Luciano Gaucci, who was also the majority shareholder of Catania), where he had the chance to make his debut in the Italian top flight. In 2005, following the cancellation of Perugia from Italian football, he found himself without a club, being then signed by Fiorentina. However, due to a career-threatening injury, he never played a single match for the viola..." Now, unless I'm mistaken because the article is badly worded, that infers to me that he played in Serie A for Perugia before they were chucked out and then was signed by Fiorentina and could have played in the top flight for them until an injury prevented it. But in any event, even in Serie B, he was playing football at a higher level than most of the players in our team or in this division and probably the Championship division too.

Ah! Smears and leftback. There's reliable.

Do Prado. Signing a Brazillian who would have been playing in Seria A is a real lack of ambition, eh? As it is, otherwise we had signed the leading scorer in this division in Lambert and another of the top scorers in Barnard and also had already Lallana who has been scouted by Premiership clubs. How unambitious can we be? Chamberlain is also a developing player too.

This must be exactly the same lack of ambition shown when we brought in Antonio last season, eh? Bignall isn't anything more than cover for Lambert and Barnard. And we already have Lallana and De Prado as options too.

Well, there's an interpretation which would cover the argument that some element of expediency could have been involved. But as SOG says, we probably will never know the truth of the matter, so impossible to prove any viewpoint conclusively. But it is amusing that some are prepared to take everything said as gospel without any element of cynicism. I always remember the famous line of Mandy Rice-Davies in the Profumo scandal, responding to an accusation against her, when she responded well he would,(say that) wouldn't he?

Well, you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I want to. To try and force your views onto somebody else without concrete proof to back them up is arrogance. I know what the statement says and my command of the English language is sufficently good enough to comprehend it. That is not to say that it is totally unambiguous or that it was not put out to gloss over another set of circumstances for the sake of expedience. Furthermore, you are not in a position to state what the chairman felt a need to do or otherwise. That is between him and Pardew.

Somehow they seem to have completely erased that fact from their minds that this is the second time that they themselves have been in this situation and seemingly they have not learned the lessons from the first time.

Go and have a cream tea at Sally Lunn's, the oldest house in Bath, I think. There used to be a bakery on the site in Georgian times, I believe and the Sally Lunn buns are famous. Get there earlier, as sometimes there is a wait for a table. Its a stone's throw from the centre of town and the big church square.

Yes, The Kraken. It is my opinion and I agree that there are no facts to substantiate it and I made a judgement call from what I have read and what I have heard from a source I trust that made me consider the element of doubt. It is a fact that the club made a statement on the official site saying that Pardew left because of footballing reasons, but then again, history is littered with instances of one thing happening and another version of events being reported in the media as an explanation for the sake of expediency. You can believe what you want and I am perfectly entitled to reach my own conclusions. Either of us could be right or wrong, but neither of us is likely to find out the truth. It is not impossible that the truth was a mixture of the two and that we are both half right. I have concluded that in my opinion there is reasonable doubt, which is something that you are not prepared to concede. However, I take it that whatever the circumstances, we are both content with the outcome. I think that from what I've seen so far, Adkins is the better manager and I agree with somebody else's comment that the Tranmere match was better football than anything we saw last season under Pardew.

Whatever happened to Personnel Managers, dustmen, linesmen, rat catchers, etc?

I'm with you on this and the perfectly reasonable approach you have adopted throughout this debate. There is no firmer evidence that supports either the position that Pardew was sacked because of football reasons or that there was some gross misconduct. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that in the event of the latter reason, a statement such as was made by Cortese could have been an expedient excuse to deflect press intrusion, both for the sake of Alan Pardew and for the club. There is nothing peculiar in the dismissal of Pardew's asistants either, as that is entirely normal that a new manager might want his own assistants. Other questions have been raised about the sudden timing after a 4-0 victory and the fact that Cortese had not lined up a replacement. For the reason of the sacking to have been because of gross misconduct, it would have been strange that the stories that surfaced were a total fabrication without any basis of substance at all. Taking all of these things into account, I feel that at the very least there is reasonable doubt that makes it not so clear cut that anybody can say with total certainty that either one position or the other can be totally watertight.

I'm afraid that although you agree with Professor, he apparently doesn't agree with you. He says

Well, as mentioned earlier, Gold of West Ham openly accused them of cheating in a quite high profile article. I'd be surprised if the FL didn't get to read it, as well as having had other club's write to them in circumstances where the Skates had taken players from under their noses when they didn't have the money to afford them.

Well, it did come from smears.

So somebody robs a bank and by your reasoning it isn't possible to jail the look-out and the getaway driver as accessories? How do you know that Wally Downes and Murdoch weren't compliant in the act? How do you know that the gross misconduct charges were totally unfounded? And even if they weren't, they were Pardew's men and it is completely normal that the new manager might wish to bring in his own people. So I wouldn't read anything much into that. So the rumours came from reliable sources, but not the sources themselves is your get-out position. So could it not be that the sources were reliable, but could not be revealed because they would jeopardise the employment of the source? I'm not saying for one minute that I have concrete evidence beyond what I had heard from a source that I trust, but neither should you speculate that nothing happened that could be construed as gross miscunduct just because the club settled with Pardew. So quite how you arrive at the conclusion that Cortese's reputation is damaged and that he has been untruthful is beyond me. If he has acted out of expediency to avoid a nasty court battle where mud is slung and the gutter press have a field day, then IMO he will have gone up in many peoples' estimation as a very professional operator.

Eminently sensible take on things and as Alpine says, a surprise that some don't seem capable of understanding that this scenario is a possible solution driven by expedience. A line is drawn neatly under proceedings and everybody can move on, without any dirty laundry being washed in public. If Cortese believed that Pardew wasn't the manager to take us up and that he finds Adkins to be the better candidate and also somebody who he has a better rapport with, then the price of the compensation is worth paying. Whether Pardew's departure was because of an incident of gross misconduct or for differences of opinion as to how the club should progress from here in footballing terms is unlikely to be known by anybody on here for a fact. Therefore Pardew is able to cite the second position in his next job interviews rather than the first. However, although he did quite well to get us where we ended just narrowly missing the play-offs and winning the JPT Cup, I feel other clubs might still feel that he left us under a cloud, much as many of us felt he had left Charlton under a cloud.

Some people reckon that the Skates will make it through to their last match of the season. If they do and you would like some company when you crack one open, arrangements are being made in anticipation. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=162289650467757 Naturally, there are the inevitable retarded imbeciles from the blue part of South Hampshire posting their insults, but it comes across as bravado and envy at our situation with no debts, wealthy ownership, decent stadium, manager, squad, etc. In their heart of hearts, they realise that by the end of the season, we will be going up and they will be going down, if they haven't passed into oblivion first.

You're right. It is all the fault of that stupid woman who had the opportunity to have shut them down right at the outset of this saga when she heard the petition to wind them up, but allowed herself to be bamboozled so that the Android could put them into administration. And then the idiot Injustice Mann missed the opportunity to disallow the CVA which has since been shown to be a farce and unsustainable since the Skates still refuse to live within their financial means. Thank God that the Football League have the balls to disallow them their golden share. It would be nice to believe that they might have been influenced by the many letters they must have received from fans of other clubs, incredulous at the way that they have raised two fingers to the football establishment, thinking that they could get away with it again. Also some attention might have been given to comments from boardroom level from other clubs, such as this from Gold at West Ham:-

There have been some pretty devastating changes that might well have influenced the Club's decision on this. The normal time for it to have taken place was just before the start of the season. There might have been a line of questioning then about the security of Pardew's managership and criticism of a rather poor pre-season. Then came the death of Markus Liebherr and inevitably there would have been requests for assurances that the family would continue to support the club financially, although otherwise it might not have been an ideal time anyway, out of respect for the family. Then followed the dismissal of Pardew, so reasonable to postpone it until a new manager had been appointed and got his feet under the table. Otherwise the inevitable line of questioning would have surrounded the circumstances that led to Pardew's going and speculation as to who would replace him. It would be nice to still have a forum, but a lot of the questions that will be asked will inevitably rake over old coals. But my feeling is that the mood amongst fans has changed to coincide with some decent recent results for Adkins and admiration for the way that he has apparently turned around the team into a more confident and stronger unit, playing attractive football. Perhaps a few more matches won in style like the last one and many of the previous issues will cease to have as much importance in most people's minds. Mind you, there is always the worry that some of those on here who delight in posting vitriolic and venomous posts seemingly from an agenda of personal spite, could attend the forum and have a public platform to cause mischief. But then they would have to be very careful that they weren't prosecuted for slander.

Obviously the position of the sun at various times of the season might be a factor if it could be in Kelvin's eyes during one half of play, but that can be assessed as to whether it was a problem or not depending on the weather conditions on the day. Otherwise, for me, the option that makes more sense, is to attack towards the more vociferous home fans (the Northam) in the second half, especially if there is a large contingent of away fans behind the Northam end goal. Sometimes a team attacking towards their home support can give their players a lift and turn the match. The Leeds match where they overturned a three goal deficit to win 3-4 springs to mind and I wonder whether they would have managed it attacking towards the Chapel.

I'm glad the message has finally sank in. But don't flatter yourself that I'm that bothered by what you post that you would raise my blood pressure by even one point. As for the location thing, do grow up.

It was an opinion and one which I agree with, along with others who have also expressed their preference to the style of play from Adkins. But as Adkins is also better qualified by education and other qualifications than Pardew, with employment as a physio and having knowledge of motivational techniques, then it is a fair enough statement to make IMO.

Credit where it is due, Pardew made some good signings, so is a decent judge of horse flesh as it were. However, he also had a big purse available to enable him to pick and choose the very best. And yet Adkins had managed to get players who proved capable of promotion to the division above us on a shoestring.

Agree entirely. Those who obtain good degrees in useful subjects, ought to be able to use that to their advantage and secure better paid jobs. They will then be paying twice the rate of tax for the rest of their lives, thus repaying the state many fold for the investment in their education. As it stands at the moment, there are too many students in higher education, pursuing useless degrees, with a high drop our rate. Those who drop out before finishing their degrees ought to pay something, as they have possibly deprived others of a place. But I also agree with Johnny Bognor, that there should be no charge for tuition in those skills that are needed by the state.

Fair enough. I think that Pardew might have done better than Wilkins, but no better than Adkins. I also believe that the style of play under Adkins is not only more attractive than under Pardew, but could also prove to be more effective in this division. We'll have to wait and see.