Wes Tender

I think that your worries are the reason for the thread asking why we have stopped scoring. Against a Premiership defence we had plenty of chances, but couldn't convert any. We know that we have plenty of players capable of scoring goals, as evidenced last season, so I can only hope that it's a confidence thing and that when they start scoring they will not stop. I'm not that bothered about 3rd division teams parking a bus in front of their goals, as we have the players to penetrate it only takes one goal before those teams have to chase the game.

Did I say that you jumped on threads which are of no interest to you? But you almost certainly hijack many of them. You're not exactly a shrinking violet, are you, so it caused me some amusement you accusing others of being attention seekers And I don't see you disputing that you descend into childish name-calling when posters dare to challenge your point of view. No, I didn't think that you would.

It wasn't their reserves though. Granted that they didn't play all of their first team, but it was several of it and there were others on the bench. If the gap was so wide between us and Premiership standard, then how come we dominated them. It didn't look as if they were capable of stepping it up and had we managed to score, things might have been totally different.

Just back from the match. An entertaining game that we dominated for about 80% of the time. Apart from their goal, Kelvin wasn't bothered that much apart from a couple of occasions, whereas their keeper was by far the busier. We had a succession of chances and should have scored at least a couple with better finishing. It was typical Saints, playing much better against supposedly better opposition. Being a Premiership team, Bolton at least did not come to park their team in front of their goal and try to hit us on the break like LO and Plymouth. They tried to pass it around, allowing us to show what we could do too. And most impartial observers would say that we were the higher division team. At least we looked up for it and won most of the midfield balls with snappy tackling, but with a referee too ready to blow up for fairly innocuous tackles we risked having a player sent off, Schneiderlin being the most likely candidate. Most of the team put in good performances, with Puncheon being the frustrating one having an off day. A succession of corner kicks he took failed to beat the first man, although he showed some good touches at times. Lambert also didn't seem to be quite himself either, blasting a couple of free kicks into row Z, which isn't like him. I think most will have gone home happy that we had done ourselves proud against a team two divisions above us. It took them half an hour to break us down and then it seemed as if they were hanging on for most of the rest of the match. It's lucky for them that we didn't play our new Brazillian player tonight, or we would certainly have won it. Out of the Carling, but I'd prefer to have a decent FA Cup run, although this season we could do without too many distractions.

There really is little point in debating with you, because as soon as somebody hits you with a telling point, you start the childish name-calling. People who disagree with you are variously pedants, mongs, planks, etc. However, there is always some amusement to be had from you, as in the following example:-

Dave/Stu tying himself up in knots again. First he would have us believe that we are losing advertising revenue hand over fist to The Rose Bowl and then in the next breath he shoots himself in the foot by stating that the target audience between those at a footie match and a cricket match is totally different! It really was a blessing that you didn't get the job at St Mary's. I do know what a perimeter advertising hoarding is and like shirleysfc, I detected large gaps around the Sheffield Wednesday ground. But perhaps my eyes fail me, or the webcam picture was not too clear. And who would my leader be, Stu? You're becoming paranoid.

They have to take them down between matches in case the inkjet ink runs in the rain. Oh, sorry, I'm wrong. They alternate between having them there and at the adjacent County Cricket Club, or Sheffield United. Your webcam photo seems pretty conclusive evidence to me that the place isn't exactly crammed with advertisers, but it must be misleading in some way, as that would mean that Stu is wrong and he's a media expert dontya know.

Reply Dave Benson Phillips/Stu: Yes, of course most might go for a seasonal spend at reduced rates over a match by match spend. But as we're only a couple of matches into the new season, doesn't mean to say that advertising spaces will not be taken up as soon as the season progresses. As for my second point, suggesting Sheffield Wednesday as an example to answer my challenge, is that the best you can do? Rather feeble, isn't it, especially as I asked for a list of third division clubs with a County Cricket Club in close proximity. Most cities who have two or more clubs, some of which might be in the third division, are considerably bigger than Southampton. An old Club like Sheffield Wednesday is no more likely to lose fans to Sheffield United than we would to the Skates. Advertisers wishing to cover a broad spectrum of the local inhabitants that watched football would have to advertise at both grounds. I thought you would have realised that. And you resisted commenting on whether you thought the advertising boards would be retained at the Rose Bowl through the bleak midwinter, or whether some of those advertisers might instead transfer their expenditure to St Mary's. As for you having been accepted for the job but turning it down because of the insecurity pre-Markus/Cortese, I remain unconvinced that you will have had a good insight into the Club's policies on Corporate hospitality or advertising and sponsorship, as you did not work there. In any event, that was the previous regime, so things could be much different now.

I'm in advertising and somebody much earlier on the thread stated entirely correctly that Company's Finance Directors have too much say on expenditure and that as the revenue return is impossible to forecast, advertising expenditure is an easy victim for the axe. Often they make the excuse of saying that if it is a case of reducing expenditure on things like this or laying off workers, it is a simple choice.

As usual, you seem incapable of seeing where your feeble arguments fall down, when often there are weak points in your own post. Just as an example, kindly furnish us with a list of third division clubs that have a County Cricket club in their back yard competing for business. I don't think that you'll be able to give many. Also, in case it escaped your notice, we are still in the cricket season and the Rose Bowl is doing rather well with televised matches. Do you think that the ground advertising hoardings will remain through the winter? Or will some of those advertisers come back to St. Mary's?

*yawn*

This young whipper-snapper has one thing going for him at least... He'll look a damned sight better wearing the Gobsh*te Shirt and the skate baseball cap than the fat fake sheik did.

Another thread about the press. YAWN.

The question of stadium hoarding advertising is not as simple as Stu would like us all to believe and cannot be laid at the door of NC's policy of banning photographers other than those offically appointed by the club. He claims insider knowledge as a corporate hospitality customer, but I work in advertising so can put some counter arguments to give a bit more balance and perspective to it. We are a third division club. Therefore the media coverage is naturally much reduced from what it was when we were in the Premiership. Our matches that are televised are also much fewer. If the advertisers wished to advertise their products specifically to the football fans within their local area, they can still do, as those attending matches are actually rising in numbers over last year. To accredit the fall in the number of advertising hoardings to the policy of banning press photographers of other clubs or newspapers is disingenuous and seemingly made more to suit an agenda rather than to address the truth. It might also have escaped Stu's notice that there happens to be a recession at the moment and advertising revenues are much reduced anyway. I know this from my own business figures. Decisions to reduce advertising expenditure have far more to do with the Financial Directors of those companies wanting to make cuts in their budgets and not having the imagination to understand how much business might be generated by advertising, as it cannot be quantified. Therefore it is a natural target for the bean-counters. Some of these people might have shifted their budgets to the Rose Bowl instead, as Hampshire Cricket Club have had some high profile matches televised recently. I wonder whether Stu will understand that a lot of those advertisers will be returning to St. Mary's when the cricket season ends shortly.

The statement confirms what I expected, but is nevertheless a comfort to hear. A very good post from Franks Cousin perfectly expresses my thoughts on it all. Whereas NC will feel an obligation to try and fulfil the plan that he and Markus hatched for the club, on the face of it he carries it forward alone and I'm sure that it would make his path easier to know that we are behind him in his endeavours. It may be that some members of the Liebherr family have already begun to have a growing affection for the Club that Markus bought and enjoyed his association with, but it is to be hoped that now that they are more involved since his passing, their love of the club will burgeon. Instead of Markus' club, it is now the family business, so with luck they might have a proprietorial pride that develops. I look forward to seeing some of the family sat in the directors' box this season. I'm sure they will receive a warm welcome from us.

So you decline to tell us how you know why Markus' family would feel embarassed then? OK. You're the one who needs to get over himself, making assumptions and presumptions over how either other people feel about this, or how you believe they ought to feel. And just for your information, it is obvious that he touched the lives of many including me. If he didn't touch yours, then bully for you. I really can't be bothered to waste any more time on you at this time.

I'm amused at the irony of you accusing me of not caring for how others people feel, when I'm defending and empathising those who feel grief for the passing of Markus Liebherr. Revolution saint owes you a debt of gratitude for standing up for him, although I feel sure that he is perfectly capable of doing that himself. But just reading his post again, I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way, (I suspect not), but personally I feel the loss of Markus Liebherr far more than I did Mother Theresa, or Princess Diana for that matter. Neither of those individuals impacted on me directly as a person, whereas Markus did, therefore much more relevance attached to his departing from my life and the implications are possibly ongoing. revolution saint: If you were Markus, you wouldn't be embarassed at this thread, would you? You would still be alive, so the thread would not exist. But thanks for the insight that you know that Markus' friends would be embarassed by this thread. Presumably you know them well enough to make that judgement? David Bick did ask the family and NC for permission to relate the anecdote about the watches, so I am presuming that if they would have been embarassed by it, they would have refused permission.

We really are tiring of pointing out the difference between the scenario we underwent and the path you took. But as it has not penetrated yet, perhaps it needs explaining just one more time. Yes, we were a comparitively short time ago also in a top ten position in the Premiership and likewise have fallen from grace and been relegated even further than you. BUT Like him or loathe him, at least Lowe attempted to have us live within our means financially. Our demise came more through selling off our best players to stay afloat, buying in journeymen and playing the kids to take their place. Those measures were an attempt to live within our means financially. We also lacked stability by our constant changing of the manager and unrest caused by board in-fighting. Your demise came through a succession of owners throwing money at your team by increasing the Club's debts to atronomical levels that were unsustainable with your income. Despite the massive revenue from Sky, you still managed to p*ss that all up the wall and then spend substantial extra sums, so that the expenditure on just players wages almost matched the club's turnover. So effectively you gained an advantage over most other clubs because of expenditure you couldn't afford and while trading insolvently. There. I've explained the difference between our two cases in as simple terms as I can. Can you now understand why we have zero sympathy for you lot?

So you're a really dispassionate, unfeeling, unemotional sort of bloke who sneers at others who are not and believes that any show of emotion is a weakness, lacking dignity. Well, I feel sorry for you. I also expect that somebody as cold and unfeeling as you, has few real friends and is therefore inclined to despise those others who have touched the lives of thousands who had never met them. And it's retch, but you probably got it right with wretch.

You really are clueless. It isn't mock outrage driven by hatred. It is genuine pity, that the thicker ones amongst you feel no shame for the immoral and corrupt way that your little club has been run into the ground by crooks and charlatans. Frankly, if you believe for one second that there has been a policy applied to your mess of damage limitation and that it has in any way been a success, you are clearly deluded. Most see Pompey as a joke, from the tattooed oaf W******d to the only two Arab owners without any money, one of whom added further comedy value by seemingly not existing at all. So to recap; we pity you and have a good laugh at you. And I'm hopeful that there are still many good belly laughs yet to come.

I am just trying to imagine what this service meant to the family. They heard several people telling them what a giant of a man Markus was, a modest man, with humility and respectful towards others. He talked little but had a dry sense of humour, apparently. But it must have been very moving for them to hear the leader of the Southampton Council voicing the opinion that in such a short space of time he had touched the lives of several thousand citizens of the city and far beyond. He said that when Southampton won a match, the whole city were winners too. I can't recall who it was, but somebody had said that Markus was a Saint, but also an honorary Englishman! I'm sure that the family will have attended a memorial service by the employees of his company, but I doubt that they will have been touched as much as by this service. Now I also recall that the rector had spoken of the birth of the club 125 years ago and said that Markus was responsible for the rebirth.

I read between the lines here. Things that were said during the service by several people give hopes that we will be cared for by Cortese and the family. David Bick had talked about the 3 year plan and then the five year plan that had been hatched between Markus and Cortese. Also it had been mentioned more than once the love that had grown for the club by Markus. Bick had said that Markus had fallen in love with the club the first day that he had visited. Mention was also made by the rector of how Markus had taken time out especially to visit St Mary's church, recognising it as the spritual home of the club. The rector had also said things which give confidence to us that we will be provided for and which IMO he would not have said unless he had discussed it with Cortese or the family. Likewise, Bick had cleared it with the family that he could reveal the details of those anecdotes about Markus. The rector had intimated that it was Markus' wish that the club would be successful and had called on Cortese to fulfill the legacy left to him by Markus. It was clear that the family knew exactly what we meant to him and he to us. I am optimistic that they will not dessert us.

Yes, certainly. It was an A5 size booklet. On the cover was the Club's 125 year crest. The title, Memorial Service in Thanksgiving for the life of Markus Liebherr. Under, a lovely photo of him resplendent in black tie and DJ. Under that, St. Mary's Church - "The Saints Church" and the date. Order of Service:- Introit "Grosser Gott Wir Geloben / Holy God , we praise thy name, played by the organ and sung by the choir. Welcome by the Rector Hymn Oh God our help in ages past Reading by Herbie Taylor (football League Fan of the Year) St Paul's letter to the Collosians Chapter 3 Verses 12-17 Tribute Councillor Royston Smith, leader of the Council Psalm 23 Sung by the choir Reading by Jake Flannigan, the Academy player Success. A poem by Bessie A Stanley Hymn Now thank thee all our God Address (Sermon) by the Rector Rev. Dr Julian Davies Reflection Accompanied by the Choir singing Ave Maria (Very moving) Prayers Hymn Abide by Me Tribute David Bick - Club Media Consultant Closing prayer and blessing On the back inside cover the photo of Markus with scarf waving to the fans, (or as it seems to me now, waving goodbye to us all) Under the photo, the dates 1948 - 2010

I see it that Markus wished to give a gift to his dear friend. Cortese had insisted that they have a watch each for every milestone reached and that ML had agreed to humour him, possibly never intending to buy himself one. But this agreement was anyway apparently meant to be when the club was either promoted or won some silverware. So unless it was post-dated so that a watch was overdue for the Johnstone's Paint Trophy, then nothing would have been due until much later in the season. So what had possessed Markus to buy the watch so far in advance? As I say, did he have some foreboding about his health? The watch that he had seen at the airport was a brand new model and not on general sale. He had put in an order direct to the manufacturers and had collected it before the first match, but had been too ill to attend it. As it stands, it will be a lasting momento of Markus to his dear friend Cortese.

Just got back. I had arrived half an hour before the service was due to commence and was lucky to be amongst the first allowed to enter the church to fill space available at the rear. I also managed to be given one of the printed booklets with the order of service and will keep it as a souvenir and reminder of the day. As mentioned already by another attendee, it was a very moving service As well as Alan Pardew, all of the players, the senior team and the younger Academy players, there were a few of the old Saints players there too. Also the Lady Mayor of Southampton. There was a reading by Herbie Taylor, the Football League fan of the year. Also a tribute by Coucillor Royston Smith, the leader of the Souhampton City Council, who said what the club meant to the City and what a massive part Markus Liebherr had played in the fortunes of the Club. Jake Flannigan an under 15s Academy player read a poem entitled "Success". He was fluent and accomplished, a credit to the youngsters involved with the Club. Another tribute came from David Bick, the Club Media Consultant, his voice reminding me very much of Michael Caine's. He divulged some very interest background to the relationship between Markus and Cortese, the anecdote about the Swiss watches that they would give to each other when we were promoted at the end of the season, but which Markus had obtained especially from the makers to give to Cortese the Saturday before he died. Did he have some foreboding? He also gave us an insight into Markus' family and his partner Laura. The Rector of Southampton had also given a very moving address detailing the origins of the Club at that Church and stating that Markus was its saviour during its darkest hour since its founding. He pointed out that the halo above Christ's head on the stained glass windows behind the altar was coloured red and white matching the team's colours. In front of the steps to the raised area where the pews for the choir were, visible to the congregation, was a framed picture of Markus. It was I believe the one we would all know and love, him wearing his scarf and waving his arm in salute to the fans at the first match after he bought us. I am glad that I took the time to attand the service. It was a very emotional and moving experience, but I felt indebted to him for bringing happiness to my life, although only having known of him for such a short time. The only blots in the service were the two mobile phones that rang in the church which should have been switched off and the player who walked down the aisle after the service disrespectfully ambling along with his hands in his pockets.