Wes Tender

I think that the word IF with which you commence your tirade ought to be written in very much bigger and bolder letters, as it is the crux of the whole matter. I thought that you were usually someone who liked to know the facts before jumping in with both feet on one side or the other. And just to correct a few fallacies in your post; the club might not be owned by Cortese, but it is owned lock stock and barrel by his friend Markus Liebherr. If you owned shares in the club when it was a PLC, then you could have laid claim to some minute part ownership, but none of the fans own any part of the club now. You might claim some moral ownership along the lines that it is our club, in the same way that you might say that it is our city, our pub, our old school, etc, but that is all. Money paid into the club's coffers was in return for watching the Saints play football, or for overpriced merchandise. Nobody forced you to pay that money and you can discontinue payment at any time. NC is paid thousands to run this club because he was paid thousands as a very sucessful banker before he came here. I'm sure that ML is entirely happy with NC's salary level, which is all that matters. And unless you can prove otherwise, I suspect that he puts in the hours into running the club, so you cannot state that he has put little in himself.

I'm with you entirely on this and even found myself agreeing with Manji for saying much the same thing. Perhaps it's the boredom factor, various people passing the time by examining the fluff in their belly-buttons. Roll on the start of the season when we can get down to discussing the real issues regarding the important things like the players and the manager, match reports, refereeing standards, etc. All of this belly-aching is just all p*ss and wind and should be treated with the contempt that it deserves.

I don't agree that the club need the Echo more than the other way around. The Echo need Saints fans to buy it to boost sales, but because any Saints fans can pick up any information they need through the OS, Radio Solent, The TV, on forums like this, the paper increasingly becomes an irrelevance. In fact, anything they care to publish on the Saints can also be read online, so who needs to buy their rag anyway? If you believe that the Saints need the Echo to increase attendances, you're wrong. Winning form will increase attendances by itself, whereas Echo sales have declined because they are no longer privvy to inside information that would have given the Exclusive banner headlines, that information now being old hat by the time the Echo picks up on it. They can't sway the feelings of Saints fans, apart from the more simple and suggestible of them. As to the more intelligent ones, any attempts to bad mouth Cortese or others running the club will just be dismissed as them having a sour grapes strop.

most of them bemoaning the possibility that the blue phew will get away with it all. Thankfully as each day passes, that looks increasingly unlikely.

http://bankruptcyandinsolvency.blogspot.com/2010/07/what-is-football-creditor-rule.html This was an interesting read, written as a blog by an IP called Stephen Hunt, described on the comments in The News as the Android's nemesis. In particular, I liked this comment:- Put it in practical terms, when I am constructing a Statement of Affairs for a company, where does the Football Creditor sit? The FCR does not forfeit the asset so the money due from the TV rights etc must appear as an asset at the beginning of the document. Either the football creditors are then shown as a deduction as some form of charge, or the assets are avalailable to other creditors and the football creditors rank as unsecured. It cannot be any other way can it? 9 July 2010 12:32 Stephen Hunt said... I have just had a conversation with someone who was looking at the opposite view in that the income wasn't the asset of the club. This raises quite different problems. If there is a rule that states that the income belongs to the club but on insolvency it is payable elsewhere then this is a classic forfeiture clause that has been tested time and again, especially in the field of pensions. In short, it is very difficult to forfeit your own assets on insolvency but a third party can impose a forfeiture in terms that you only have a right to an asset whilst you are not insolvent. See Scientific Investment Plan 1999. I think the League might suffer some real difficulty in running this argument without causing colateral damage to itself. It's all very well constructing a contract that says that certain monies are not payable to an insolvent club, but it is quite another to then expect the club to perform its duties and effectively earn that money only to see the fruits of that work paid away by the Board under its discretion. In bankruptcy that is the equivalent of a bankrupt working for free and the spouse receiving a high wage and this would be overturned as a sham. The League could end up in a position whereby the only way to protect their Rule is to fully suspend the club and to remove it from fixtures. The very last sentence suggests that the FL might find itself in a position whereby they could only protect the football creditors' rule by not allowing the Skates to participate in the league. The dark storm clouds gather over Krap Nottarf and grow darker with each passing day.

Most outsiders might indeed believe that, but then again not many of them would know the reality like us and the Skates. Although one could argue that the league position doesn't lie, one could counter argue that it doesn't tell the truth either. For example, it is still a possibility that they could be liquidated and find themselves re-emerging in the Blue Square South. Their league status isn't yet determined. Even in the Championship they have yet to kick a ball and for most of the season, if they play in that division, they might be just one place above us. If they played us tomorrow, I have no doubt in my mind that we would beat them. Who was this American team that turned them over 4-0?

So our ladies team play in Waterlooville and if I understood it correctly, the Skates women play at Blackfield?? Why don't they swap venues?

They aren't out of the woods yet, that I can tell you four-nothing. They might yet end up playing in the Blue Square. Granted that many of the JCLs will just shrug their shoulders and transfer their allegiancies to some glory club, like the plastics they are, but those dyed in the wool fans who are their hardcore of support might already be looking at it rather differently. I suspect that if you were to ask any of them, (the ones who possess an IQ going into double figures), many would admit that in retrospect the damage that has been done to their club by living beyond their means was not worth the FA Cup and the FA Cup final this year. Many have now realised rather belatedly that there is no clear conclusion to their troubles in sight yet and that the avoidance of oblivion cannot even now be ruled out.

Just wait until you get to see the refereeing in League 1 the following season, Steve.

I can tell you four nothing, he wouldn't have enjoyed that.

1) Yes 2) No Now move on.

"The Premier League have long insisted that the football creditors rule, which says all players, coaching staff and rival clubs must be paid in full when a club goes bust, is essential to the crediblity of the competition. Without it, Watford would have followed Portsmouth into administration last year; the rule allowing the Premier League to withhold TV money from Portsmouth in order to meet payments they owed to Watford on the transfers of Tommy Smith and Mike Williamson. A Premier League spokesman said: "We will robustly defend our position." It obviously hasn't credited Taylor's cranium that without the Football Creditors' rule, clubs would have to be a lot more circumspect in their dealings and that if clubs like the Skates couldn't afford to pay for a player up front, then they wouldn't get them. Any club that wished to buy players effectively on hire purchase, some now and some more when the player had a certain number of matches under their belts, would have to think twice about the gamble they would be taking if that buyer club went under. Quite why he cannot understand that clubs living within their means can only be a good thing is beyond me.

+1.

All this stuff about the shirt has already been debated ad nauseum. Docker is not forced into buying one or wearing one and in the meantime he can join all of the Skate fans in having an avator that disrespects the official Saints shirt of the year. The most obvious way to gauge the popularity of the shirt is to look at the sales figures and those indicate that it is a rip roaring success. We not only have a pretty unique strip in British football in terms of its design, but also because we have no sponsor. I'll look forward to wearing mine at home matches. I've seen several out and about and they look great. I'll wear the new stripes kit next season when we're back in the Championship.

Yes they are in the scheme of leagues and points. And it could be that we treated it as a stroll in the park, whereas Sutton thought that we'd be a nice scalp to take and lifted their game. The match might have been disjointed because of the changes in personnel for purposes of experimentation. On the other hand, we are the favourites to win this division and yet we couldn't score more than one goal against a team in the Ryman Premier League. No doubt our confidence will have received a massive boost.

It might only be a friendly, but why is it that these teams who hardly register on the antenna of English football manage to either draw or beat us in pre-season? There were enough of our first team out there surely to at least have scored more goals than them. Although there was nothing hanging on it, disappointing nonetheless.

Presumably the part in bold has something to do with your current precarious financial position. You say that the club kept very quiet about it, which is to be expected. They kept quiet about it because there are all sorts of ripples that are caused by this information being in the public domain. Existing creditors get nervous and press for early settllement of debts. New creditors want payments to be pro-forma. This makes cash flow more difficult. But it also sends out a message to players and agents that this is a club in a precarious position and some of those players might decide to go elsewhere to more stable clubs. As has already been pointed out, a club that has to sell players to balance the books is in a weak bargaining position. Players demoralised by the relegation have another worry on their minds. As you're well aware, we've been there and done that ourselves, so you have my sympathy, but whereas we cut our cloth according to our means and sold off all the quality players and played the kids under a management duo costing less than the reasonably inexpensive manager that preceded them, you admit yourself that you brought in several quality players presumably costing more money, in anticipation of the straightened financial circumstances you knew would follow. I bear no malice towards Sheffield Wednesday and you seem a decent and civil fella; but if it were us in this predicament, I would be wary of some misfortune happening some time into the season that will derail your promotion efforts.

At least there is finally an admission that the figures were better than you expected, which is something, I suppose. As to your other point regarding the number of people who were "forced" out of buying a ST, you obviously won't take on board any arguments that go against your own private agenda, whatever that might be. If you care to look a few posts above, I pointed out that it was impossible to know the number of those who had not renewed since the installment plan was discontinued, because many might not have been able to afford the tickets even with the installment plan, because of a worsening of their financial position due to the recession. So what precisely would be the relevance of the club isssuing retention figures which are meaningless, apart from providing those such as you the chance to twist them as ammunition to pursue your petty little vendettas? In the same way that you have rather inanely argued that the discontinuation of the installment plan would adversely affect sales of STs, you ought to therefore accept the equally inane counter argument that by withdrawing the installment plan, the increased ST take up indicates that people have actually been "forced" into buying more STs.

The point that should not be missed, is that comparisons between two consecutive seasons are useless, unless one factors in the economic circumstances prevailing between that timespan. Many who could afford a ST last season cannot this season and vice versa. All very well comparing the club's circumstances, the lack of the -10 points, the buying in of better players, the removal of Norwich, Leeds and Millwall, etc, but if somebody was made redundant earlier this year, that will all be irelevant to them if they cannot pay their cost of living bills. IMO, the increase in ST sales is a pleasant surprise and there is still time for the figures to increase further. Anybody decrying the sales before the end of the purchase period, is headed for egg on their face potentially, the yolk being on some already at this stage.

Of course, it couldn't possibly be that the business was suffering in the recession, as is my own business and the boss took the decision that he couldn't really afford to buy these two tickets and used the lack of a reminder as an excuse? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Saint Warwick and hold the opinion that an on the ball boss, or the beneficiaries on his munificence ought to have been bright enough to have remembered when the ST renewals were due to take place. It was only the work of a few moments to access the club's website to ascertain the closing date deadline for the early discount. And I note that just because somebody disagrees with you, they continue to be called mongs. But as you have been proven to be wrong over this issue, you really ought to have a good look in your mirror before disparaging those whose opinions have been proven to be correct.

Quote Dark Owl I just love the blinkered arrogance of this guy, especially when he dismisses the posts of those confident Saints as probably young chavs. You're not a young chav yourself,by any chance, Dark Owl, as the tone of your post is strikingly reminiscent. I especially loved his assertion that most of their players would get into our squad, whereas most of ours wouldn't get into theirs. As most of our squad were in the League 1 team of the year last season, I very much doubt it. Furthermore, there have been clubs higher placed than SW who were vying for the signatures of some of those players and we snatched them from under their noses. I am perfectly content for them to underestimate us, as that is the biggest mistake that you can make at this level, as we have found out to our cost on a couple of occasions. As for their resident clown's opinion that they must have sunk really low if we are their main rivals in the division, their record during the past thirty years is not a match for ours, they having already sunk down to these depths before. I really enjoyed his comment that they have a far better squad than the Norwich one which went up as champions. He obviously didn't bother to do his research properly, as we came out better than them over the matches we played them last season. Further amusement was provided by his opinion that they have 4 awesome goal threats up front. Again, Dark Owl, have a look at the stats of ours and these are players who have proved their prowess at this level. So as I said, go ahead and believe that we will get turned over by your team, whose glory days as a big club are far in the distant past. But ignore at your peril the dangers that a team recently relegated might not have the right mental attitude right away, that a poor start will create a further drop in confidence and that a raft of new players will need time to adjust and gel together. We have been there and done that and the confidence in our squad is high, We are just fine tuning a squad that would have been right up there had it not been for the points deduction and the slow start caused by the lack of a pre-season and other changes.

Land of Hope and Glory is head and shoulders above the others and I'm assuming that the YouTube version is taken from the Last Night of the Proms. I'm not particularly a fan of Classical Music, but I love watching that sung with such fervour and enjoyment. I'm content with our current National Anthem for the time being, but increasingly grow fed up with the situation whereby Nationalism grows apace in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland which have their own Parliaments/Assemblies and are still allowed to have representation in our Parliament, whereas we have no say in theirs. The Scots and the Welsh have their own Anthems. It is increasingly becoming necessary for us to adopt one of our own.

I voted in their poll, along with all their delusioned idiots. Of course, they must hold out for the best prices for their overpaid players, even if that means that they will remain on the Skate's books, continuing to earn money and increase the tax bill that they can't afford and which Chainrai will increasingly resent paying. Today's Vote:- Should Pompey hold out to gain the best prices for their star players? 80% Yes - we must not be ripped off 14% No - we are in a financial mess and need every penny 6% Hold out and see if we get a new owner Go for it, Skates!

On their website that shows a moth-eaten squad, the other button is for the ladies (haha) team. That seems to be a full team. Can't they play some of them? Most look more butch than the blokes team.

Three cheers for the HMRC , Hoorah! Hoorah! Hoorah! So what do you think about it all, NickH? Are they getting away with it?