Wes Tender

Or is that the John of Hedge End who toadied up to Lowe at the Saints Forum on Radio Solent a couple of years ago, who many mistakenly thought was Guided Missile? I wonder whether he and that idiot at the AGM were the same person...

The crux of the matter. We are so one dimensional that any rival manager worth his salt either studies videos of our past few matches and formulates a plan to negate any strengths we might have, or as has often happened, we are good in the first half and the rival manager is savvy enough to make tactical changes to counter our strengths and exploit our weaknesses in the second half. JP doesn't seem to have the tactical nous to make those strategic changes.

There is one important consideration when drawing comparisons between the appointments of Wigley, Gray, Pearson and JP. The appointments of Wigley and Gray should be seen as being during a time when revenues received from being in the Premiership with all the attendant SKY money washing around. As such, it was a gamble taking on inexperienced managers that we were not forced into by financial restraints. Also, having proven to be a bad decision both times, Lowe might well have been expected to go for a manager with a proven and experienced track record in this division having been unsucessful going down that route twice. Also, having seen that Pearson had kept the team up, that he was respected by the players and popular with the vast majority of the fans, he would have been on a win/win situation keeping him on, as he could have blamed Crouch and fired him if he didn't produce results this season. Whilst making comparisons between Pearson and JP, no way is that a level playing field. Pearson showed through some very astute loans that he was capable of bringing in some good solid players, the very type that are needed in this very situation. Most of JPs signings are a complete load of dross, a couple of them having hardly kicked a ball since they have been here. Pearson had a long and distinguished career playing in this country at this level and above and knew the game inside out. Although JP had played at a higher level, his managerial experience and knowledge of the British game was zero when he arrived and he has been shown to be completely out of his depth.

Another very good post by Frank under yours. Explains everything very well.

No need. The message will get to him and also to Lowe via one of the PR plants. :yawinkle:

Nineteen Canteen: Nickh: There you are, Nineteen. Do you want me to spell it out to you? Go and tell Lowe that even the more sensible supporters have rebelled against his bizarre experiment. JP must go and Lowe too for appointing one failure too many.

Bak to the lower divisions of Dutch football would be best for the poor hapless fellow, I think. There, nobody will hold it against him that he came over here to a second division club, completely out of his depth, but also acting under considerable restraints imposed on him by the meddling and clueless chairman.

It just ocurred to me that this bloke reminds me a lot of the guy who got up at the AGM as the first questioner and proceeded to spout his praises of what a great job Lowe was doing and how it was dispicable that he didn't get the support of everybody at the meeting and the stadium. The very twit probably in his 40s or perhaps early 50s, who faced up to Ted Sainty afterwards and when told that Ted had been following Saints for 65 years which was a damned sight longer than him, responded by asking how we knew that. :yawinkle:

A superb summary to correct the wrong impression of a so-called professional Sports journalist who unless he has some sort of agenda ought to have checked his facts before having any article published that bore his name. I'm sure that he must realise that his reputation is placed on the line with every opinion he expresses and he really should have considered that before he went of at half-c ock. Better to have not said anything than write something that was factually incorrect because he is either uninformed, or couldn't be bothered to find out whether there might be other reasons for the low attendances.

Several valid points and sensibly argued, Frank. But if this fellow is indeed a PR plant, then it is totally dispicable that he posts on here pedalling propaganda on behalf of the club for money. Yes, this is a forum of opinions and you argue that opinions are therefore welcome whatever end of the spectrum they represent, but those opinions should be honestly held by proper Saints fans, not some individual that has been paid to pedal propaganda as his job. Yes, it does give us an insight into how the club is thinking. It suggests to me that they have a siege mentality and are becoming ever more desperate again. It also demonstrates that if this is a PR plant, Lowe has learned nothing from the previous debacle, but that would be par for the course. Lowe doesn't make mistakes, does he? The whole World would be wrong before he was. If Nineteen Canteen is one of the directors or a toady of theirs, why doesn't he post as himself and have the balls to express the view on behalf of the club? That would at least have more credibility than the OS, which is a joke.

I'm starting to view Leicester as my second club after Saints and look for their results because of the respect and liking that I had for Pearson. In many ways they are very similar to us and even having Mandaric as their Chairman is a plus, as I'd far rather have him as our Chairman than Lowelife.

About as devious as Lowe coming back with Wilde's help, getting shot of Pearson on false grounds that he was too expensive and appointing JP and Wotte, a plan that he had in mind implementing way before Burley's appointment? No, your version has one fatal error. Hockaday would have to be paid off and Dowie's wages would be too steep at the moment. The way I outlined, is cheaper, especially as if we merely swap Hockaday and JP around. That would have some merit for Lowe. It could still work along the lines I suggested. Demote JP, look for a new manager and big up Hockaday whilst the interviews are taking place.

About as devious as Lowe coming back with Wilde's help, getting shot of Pearson on false grounds that he was too expensive and appointing JP and Wotte, a plan that he had in mind implementing way before Burley's appointment? No, your version has one fatal error. Hockaday would have to be paid off and Dowie's wages would be too steep at the moment. The way I outlined, is cheaper, especially as if we merely swap Hockaday and JP around. That would have some merit for Lowe. It could still work along the lines I suggested. Demote JP, look for a new manager and big up Hockaday whilst the interviews are taking place.

You wrote this as I was simultaneously writing my piece. So we both had similar thoughts. Could there be anything in it?

You wrote this as I was simultaneously writing my piece. So we both had similar thoughts. Could there be anything in it?

I'm amazed that nobody has sussed the real situation. The bust-up with Hockaday has been stage managed to save Lowe. Let me explain the psychology of it. Lowe knows damned well that his bizarre experiment with JP has been a dismal failure, as many of the more savvy people predicted it would be. But being Lowe, it is not easy to admit that he has ever been wrong. So he hatches this plan with Hockaday, realising that since he arrived he has demonstrated some ability and more importantly was cheap into the bargain. Hockaday had gone to bend Lowe's ear about the appalling lack of ideas shown by JP and Lowe had tried to toady up to him and buy his soul by promising him JPs job if he was a good boy. Thus the makings of this scheme began to take form in Lowe's mind. Hockaday was to go along with this scheme that they had had a bust-up and that he was on gardening leave. Lowe would then sack JP and there would be an increasing body of support for Hockaday amongst the fans because seemingly he had the balls to face up to Lowe. Lowe will then leak the story to his chums in the Daily Mail about the circumstances of the bust-up, stating that Hockaday had insisted that the mad experiment should cease immediately and that we should use more experienced players and a 4-4-2 formation, thus increasing support for him amongst the fans. Lowe will then interview candidates to replace JP and his cronies on the board and the hapless Wilde will push Hockaday as the fans' favourite dark horse, he also being the only candidate we can afford. Lowe will reluctantly agree, showing false humility to soften his image, most having believed that humility was something that he was incapable of. Then Lowe is in a win/win situation; if Hockaday succeeds, he can hold his hands up and admit he was wrong, secretly and knowing smugly that he had engineered the whole thing himself. If it all go tits up a la JP, he can distance himself from the whole thing, totally blameless, stating that had we persevered with JP, things would have begun to turn around had he been given a little longer. Machiavellian in its brilliance, eh?

I'm amazed that nobody has sussed the real situation. The bust-up with Hockaday has been stage managed to save Lowe. Let me explain the psychology of it. Lowe knows damned well that his bizarre experiment with JP has been a dismal failure, as many of the more savvy people predicted it would be. But being Lowe, it is not easy to admit that he has ever been wrong. So he hatches this plan with Hockaday, realising that since he arrived he has demonstrated some ability and more importantly was cheap into the bargain. Hockaday had gone to bend Lowe's ear about the appalling lack of ideas shown by JP and Lowe had tried to toady up to him and buy his soul by promising him JPs job if he was a good boy. Thus the makings of this scheme began to take form in Lowe's mind. Hockaday was to go along with this scheme that they had had a bust-up and that he was on gardening leave. Lowe would then sack JP and there would be an increasing body of support for Hockaday amongst the fans because seemingly he had the balls to face up to Lowe. Lowe will then leak the story to his chums in the Daily Mail about the circumstances of the bust-up, stating that Hockaday had insisted that the mad experiment should cease immediately and that we should use more experienced players and a 4-4-2 formation, thus increasing support for him amongst the fans. Lowe will then interview candidates to replace JP and his cronies on the board and the hapless Wilde will push Hockaday as the fans' favourite dark horse, he also being the only candidate we can afford. Lowe will reluctantly agree, showing false humility to soften his image, most having believed that humility was something that he was incapable of. Then Lowe is in a win/win situation; if Hockaday succeeds, he can hold his hands up and admit he was wrong, secretly and knowing smugly that he had engineered the whole thing himself. If it all go tits up a la JP, he can distance himself from the whole thing, totally blameless, stating that had we persevered with JP, things would have begun to turn around had he been given a little longer. Machiavellian in its brilliance, eh?

Totally regardless of the rights and wrongs of this whole scenario, whether those who apportion blame to Lowe individually, or to those on whose behalf he acted as Chairman, the fact remains that he is the most divisive person in the entire history of this club. Clearly we cannot make progress when such a person is the figurehead of the club, backed up by another hugely unpopular personality in the Quisling. So whatever the degree of opinion and apportionment of blame that may of may not attach to him, either partly or mostly, doesn't change the conclusion that most have reached from an ever wider spectrum of the fan base; that we cannot begin to make progress in healing the wounds and divisions whilst he retains any position on the board.

So you see no correlation at all between our current parlous financial position and the fact that our position on the pitch is even worse because of the appointment of a lower league Dutch manager completely out of his depth? I thought that you had the mental capacity to think such things through and arrive at a connection between our relegation during Lowe's first spell here, the further damage done by Wilde, the disunity caused by their return, the bizarre experiment, everything cumlminating in where we are now. If you think that Lowe is not especially blameworthy for all this, then your views are blinkered for some reason.

Good that you are considering withdrawing your support of Lowe on grounds of his appointment and support of the hapless Dutchman, but I'm frankly amazed that you have grounds to support him based on his supposed financial accumen. Although he can be credited for some fairly astute stuff on player sales, he can also be criticised for others. Losing Stoneham, failure to appreciate when the time was right to spend a little to attain the next level, a total failure to understand that a few good players was better than a load of dross, that a full stadium at £15 a ticket is better than a half empty one at £24, these examples point up that he has no idea of how to run a company in this sector at all. Factor in his appalling record on managerial appointments (by that I mean the number of them, as well as the poorness of some of the incumbents like JP) and you have a plethora of other reasons why most are already in the Lowe out camp. But I am encouraged that you are seriously contemplating joining those ranks.

OK then. Idea two it is then. I predict that it will be the one chosen. Some might not like the fact that a mass boycott deprives the club of badly needed money, but that is just the kick in the balls that will have the Bank pull the plug on Lowe if he doesn't resign first. I had called it the nuclear option a couple of months ago, but now there is an increasingly united belief amongst the majority of fans that Lowe and his stupid experiment will bring anihilation to our beloved club if allowed to continue. The time for the most drastic but effective action has come.

I am now back in the UK having followed some discussions on what can be done whenever I could get to a computer. There were some good suggestions on the boycott thread which I started and a poll showed that virtually 80% of the fans would be prepared to take part in some form of boycott or other, with a very clear majority in favour of a mass boycott until Lowe was forced out. I had suggested in that thread that the contribution of CB Fry was spot on in how this campaign should be organised and that this should be our approach, because as amusing and effective that the parading of a coffin might be, the only realistic way to rid the club of people who have ruined it is via a mass boycott. I'm sure that he won't mind me reproducing his ideas here again. If his plan gets widespread approval, then I think that this is the route we should employ. His reasoning and approach is spot on for me. Originally Posted by CB Fry An organised boycott is the only way, and really is doable if everyone gets behind it. How do you do it - not that hard. Pick a TV game. Give the day a name "the big boycott", "stay away for change" something (without Lowe's name in it). Branding it makes it easier to get it noticed in the local media. In fact, make it positive not negative - "Save our Saints" is a million times better than "Lowe out". Enrol Lawrie, Mark Dennis, Benali, Merrington, Channon and assorted other local Saints legends and post them to pubs, clubs, church hall all over the city and the region to make communal events of watching the game on TV. Hire Central Hall as a key venue and get Lawrie to host it. The point is you make the boycott an event you have to make watching the game on TV a big communal event all fans can feel part of. You have to make the boycott something to actively do rather than just telling people to not do something. Instead of just saying "don't go, don't go" you have to tell people "go to this instead". Save our Saints. Twenty Locations in the city/region. Saints celeb at every location. Small charge to go to either local charity/or to the running costs of the event. Posters and banners for every other pub in city to run their own event. The local media would be all over it. Trust me the Echo might be up the clubs arse now but they love an event and they'd print a colour poster on the day before in their centre pages. 100 letters from readers would guarantee it. Papers love a campaign. Empty stadium for one game. Lowe would have to resign the next day. He would, not least because Wilde and co would bottle it. It can be done.