Wes Tender

Signing an unknown youngster rejected by others who he trialled with warrants a pre-match pitchside signing? And have we commisioned John Cleese to demonstrate his famous Ministry of Silly Walks afterwards, together with Mr. Keepy Ball Up too? You really couldn't make it up.

I think that there is a possibility that because you went to this Shirley pub meeting with JP and some players, your head has been turned. You want realistic alternatives? Just take the time to read the many posts on that very subject, notably by Um Pahars. Just as a starter, keeping Nigel Pearson and seeing how that panned out. Otherwise, playing a mixture of youngsters together with experienced pros to provide a balanced team, or implementing schemes to offer value and at the same time encouraging higher attendances are a couple of other ideas. Regarding the "constant witch hunt" has it occurred to you that the divisive nature of Lowe and Wilde back in charge and their mad experiment is the single most important reason why the club is moving inextricably towards administration? Are you surprised that those real fans who can see this are pursuing every avenue to rid the club of these people? The club's very survival depends predominantly on attendances. If you see no correlation between the falling numbers and the policies implemented by the board and wish to heap the blame on the fans who chose to either moan about things or just stay away, then you go ahead. If a horse drawn carriage is careering towards the precipice, it's obviously the passengers' fault and not the driver's, eh?

Agreed completely. Comparing the arrival of JP here to Wenger at Arsenal wasn't exactly the irrefutable argument you thought, was it Solentstars? I would also assume that had Wenger produced the results that JP has, he would have been replaced long ago. The old adage that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys still holds firm.

Where did I say we'd force the board to resign? I said we'd force them to listen or go under. That scenario is already happening gradually as numbers attending diminish weekly. But a mass boycott would force them to resign if it could command the support of sufficient numbers. As it is, they'll attempt to survive until January, when Surman, Lallana and possibly others will be sold. But then attendances will diminish still further once any quality has gone, the money from those sales will disappear into paying the bank overdraught and we will soon be running up another overdraught, hoping that even more youngsters will appear. Because JP was Lowe's appointment, Lowe will keep him far longer than otherwise, as sacking him would be an admission of failure by him. JP should have gone already otherwise.

Why bother with appointing managers? Why not just let Lowe get on with it himself? And what's the point in having the youngsters thrown in at the deep end before they're ready? That way the team loses more often than not, the youngsters are scarred by the experience and their confidence hits the floor, the club gets deeper into the mire through falling attendances and then the youngsters are sold for next to nothing in a fire sale out of financial desperation. Brilliant! As for keeping the shareholders happy, presumably you feel confident enough in your knowledge of the feelings of major shareholders like Crouch and Corbett to speak on their behalf. Do you think that they're happy that the crazy masterplan is driving us towards administration?

Of course Lowe interferes in team matters. He's a Walter Mitty character having had past work experience in the stuffy world of finance in the City, or in running retirement homes. That hardly fits his own self-image as action man. Of course, he could satisfy some of those desires by going out shooting, but much better to be in the limelight as one of the few chairmen of a football club, able to mix with and have influence over the minor celebrities that footballers are. How lucky he is to be able to play with the train set for the paltry investment in 6% of the shares and so satisfying that he got even that money back and more from his salary. Regrettably the mad experiment is failing, but think of all the accolades he would have received had it succeeded and he would have been hailed as the imaginative innovator who broke the mould of British football. Even as things stand, if he was incredibly lucky, the youth policy could have unearthed two or three youngsters in the Bale, Walcott mould and he would have the reflected glory when commentators described the thrilling youngster playing for Man Utd or Chelsea as one of the diamonds unearthed by Lowe's visionary and daring youth policy. For Lowe, it was a bold gamble on turning round the mantle of dismal failure that lies on his shoulders since he got us relegated and which he hoped he could turn into dazzling success. Instead, he will probably go down in the history of the club as a laughing stock, but nobody who supports the club will be laughing, as he will have been the biggest single cause of the club's demise in its history.

There are two benefits from moaning. Firstly we all feel better for getting it off our chests. Secondly, if enough of us moan and if nobody acknowledges our gripes and acts on them and we stay away, then we will force the board to listen or go under.

Do yourself a favour and read Wenger's record before he went to Arsenal and then bone up on JP's managerial record and then have the humility to admit that you're talking out of your posterior orifice. And anyway, the reason that we care is because JP cannot do the job.

Whether he would be a liability depends on a few things. Would he be mobile enough against some strikers? Quick enough? Willing to put himself right on the line 100% in challenges that might result in injury? In his pomp, he was an incredible defender, worthy of a place even in some of the top teams in the Premiership. It would be great if he could have a decent run for one more season, but it doesn't look good and I agree with you that it is better that we don't place any reliance on him, especially if his future health might be compromised.

I agree. When it became apparent at the start of the season that he might get back, there was genuine excitement and anticipation and indeed, he looked like a commanding presence in the pre-season matches, almost like his old self, bar a bit of lack of fitness which seemed as if it might return with matches. But now, even if he did return, he looks as if he might be a liability, or that he could soon end up crocked again. Very sad.

There is no way that we can build anything if the moment any player shows any promise he is sold. That is not building, it is ticking over. We are Crewe mark two, a bit higher up than them, but it won't be long before we are in the same division as them once we have sold Lallana and Surman and used the money to pay into the overdraught.

Because some of those tenures were in the Premiership, the only really relevant comparison was between the two last managers, NP and JP. The Plymouth match can be discounted from the NP stats as he was not the manager at the time. Contrary to the sneering adopted by OB, Pearson's record stacks up much better than JP's, especially when one considers that he had all those ageing journeymen in his squad, whereas JP has the cream of Saints youngsters, motivated and proud to give their all to wear the shirt. Under NP we at least became hard to beat, something that he has managed to transfer to his new club which has the best defensive record in the division. Shame that after a pre-season and 16 games, our current defence is one of the worst in the division. But as pointed out, usually after a record of failure such as this Lowe has already wielded the axe by this stage. The difference is this time around, if he sacks JP he admits that his mad experiment hasn't worked and his ego won't allow that. I'm afraid that instead the club will die a slow death with crowd numbers diminishing weekly until we go into administration.

Regardless of the good or bad points of the various analogies being bandied about in attempts to make comparisons with other businesses, the board relies too much on the fanatical nature of support to football clubs to maintain the finances at a certain level. The trouble is, whereas there is a bedrock of support who will pay their dosh whoever is in charge and whatever the division we are in, there is a more transient support which is happy enough to pay if they are witnessing something worth their money, but who will not pay for a poor product. As the board need a certain number of bums on seats to achieve a break even figure financially, it is incumbent on them to ensure that the matchday experience is sufficiently good to encourage the floaters to part with their cash and keep attending. Patently they are failing to achieve that end and the blame attaches only to them, not the fans. I see nothing wrong in the restaurant analogy, nor any reason why highly paid professionals should not be booed if those paying to watch them perceive that they are not trying. The payment of their admission fee or their ST allows them that privilege. Granted that school children often react positively to praise, but there is not much of the other side of the coin in modern day education whereby they can be encouraged to perform better through any form of realistic punishment. Many schools under liberal establishments have done away with competitive sport lest the poor darlings are scarred for life because they came last and are therefore consequently totally unprepared when they leave the cosy cocoon of school and enter real life which is a jungle. For many, adversity makes them stronger and football is a man's game. Encouragement and praise when it's due, but a good kick up the backside when it's appropriate too.

I agree that the majority of our home fans are complete knobs. Those who bought early bird STs have a reasonable excuse and can argue that having already shelled out their hard-earned they might as well attend, either because they're masochists or want time off from their wife and families. But the others who do not have STs and yet still go, (myself and son included) are the biggest knobs of all. If we had any intelligence, we would have worked out long ago that the entertainment, (or more correctly the lack of it) was not worth the money and that our continued contributions are in fact delaying the departure of the very people responsible for the dross on offer.

Let's put this the other way around. Where's the plan B currently? It's arguable whether this isn't itself the plan B, as surely plan A would have been to appoint a manager with experience at this level and in this country at least. There would be at least one important benefit of Lowe going; fan base unity would improve. At least a replacement board would have the moral authority to make a rallying cry for fans to return to support the club through the turnstiles, something which Lowe and Quisling do not have.

JP is probably a good youth coach. That's his level. I'd be quite happy with him coaching the youngsters, but not managing the first team. The fact that the first team is mainly the youngsters is the reason why the wheels have fallen off. It's just plain barmy.

And I'm delighted that you contributed such a measured post telling us what the Saints means to you and your family and how hurt you are too that your club is in such a parlous state. If the board read a succession of posts which are just a string of expletives, they will dismiss them as the mindless rants of the Neanderthals that they like to believe inhabit various sections of the crowd. If they bothered to read forums like this and instead found well reasoned and well written posts cogently expressing disgust at the low state that they have brought us to, then they had better sit up and take notice, because those people are perfectly able to disseminate those opinions though the media to their detriment. They may well be wondering why the attendance numbers have been falling match by match, but all they have to do is to read the reasons by searching out the posts on forums like this and they will have chapter and verse. No doubt the other shareholders in the Lowe clique were happy to trust Lowe and the Quisling to cut our cloth according to our means financially, as they were doing it to protect all their shareholdings. But it must be crystal clear to them now, that the way that Lowe has gone about it, allied to the intense dislike that a large section of the fan base hold him, has resulted in the situation that with every match lost, the resultant drop in attendances for the ensuing matches is pushing us closer to administration as well as relegation. If those shareholders allied to Lowe have any genuine love for the club, I implore them to get together as a group, approach him and Wilde and tell them that the madcap plan has not worked and that they are withdrawing their support for them. They should make it clear that there should be a meeting of all the major shareholders of the various factions to try and find a way that they can all work together with the common purpose of saving this club. They should invite any other groups or individuals to attend who feel that they could make a positive contribution. If they try and just stumble on from one drawback to another defeat, should we just sit idly by, all sound and fury signifying nothing, or should we attempt to plan action as a fan base unified in our love of the club, determined to take the action that will bang their heads together, forcing them to take account of us and our wishes whilst there is still time?

I have deliberately slept on it (again), so that I can try and get some perspective on yesterdays match. But regrettably my first instincts directly after the game remain the same now. My first thought was that whereas I have been to every home match regardless of whether I could have watched it for free on Sky, I now think that it is just not worth £48 for me and my son to watch that dross when I could watch it for nothing in the comfort of my own home. As for the other home matches not on the telly, I am seriously wondering whether it is worth forking out £48 to watch last season's youth team get beaten by all and sundry in this division either. With every home defeat, I am drawn inextricably to the feeling that Poortvliet needs to get the bullet, as he is just way out of his depth in this country and indeed even in this division. Even with the limited range of players available to him, he just doesn't seem to have any idea what his best team is and when eventually he does find that out, we will be relegated first. As for the people who run the club, I also feel more and more inclined to bring the possibility of relegation closer by reducing the club's income by £48 every fortnight. I suspect that on that one, I would be joining an increasing number of others. Looking at the longer term prospects anyway, it seems to me a choice of administration now when there is the possibility of changes enabling us still a remote chance of avoiding relegation or at least starting in the old third division with a clean sheet, or getting relegated anyway and beginning in the old third division with -10 points. Of course, the other possible way to bring about Lowe and Wilde's departures is a mass boycott of one match to begin with. Perhaps we have seen enough of how bad the situation has become to decide that things aren't going to improve and ought to start planning for it now. I was imagining what the reaction was going to be if players like Lallana and Surman were sold in January and Schneiderlin and Cork went too.Nearly all of any income from them would go straight into the paying off debt and we would be searching the Tyro league for replacements. What is so depressing is that even if the team was begininnig to make any progress there might be some reason for optimism, but as it is, there is only the bleakest outlook at the moment and for the rest of the season. Relegation and therefore administration looms large.

So the hardcore fan base is only 15000 and yet since relegation we were able to get many thousand more fans into St. Mary's even in this division previously. Rather takes the feet from under your contention, doesn't it? Bearing in mind that our fan base is realistically 15000 as you say, the building of the 32000 seater stadium was a complete waste of time, eh? And if the falling numbers are attributable more to the plastics giving up coming and the fall in peoples' disposable income, then those who say that fans are staying away because we are not winning at home or because of the Lowe / Wilde factor are also barking up the wrong tree? This has been debated many times before and all of those things are factors, not just the two you mention.

I heartily agree with you and if we are to have any of the major shareholders involved, my personal wish was that none of them was and that they all took a back seat for the sake of unity and agreed together to appoint an independent executive board. I was merely responding to a post that implied that Crouch was not up to running this business any better than Lowe and Wilde. If those people stop implying that, then they will not get the opposite response.

Lowe seems to have no idea about running a football club either, being as how he is headed towards his second failure at it. Let him go back to running retirement homes. If you just accept that a football club is a business, then the fact that Crouch is a more successful businessman than either Lowe or Crouch tends to suggest that he better qualified than either of them to be in charge. If you accept that there are certain factors that make running a football club different than a lot of businesses, then the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

Right, you know that you're wrong about the spelling, but not about the racist slant of your mind. I don't know how that can be corrected, except by travelling and mixing with different cultures to broaden your mind, which is so narrow at the moment that it's a one way street.

It's not where; it's wear. So shall I stereotype you as being poorly educated because of your poor spelling, or because I find your racist views? Oh dear.

Did the Echo kindly furnish the reasons for the meeting, who was invited, etc that I asked for information about. Getting an answer to these simple questions is like getting blood out of a stone; was it a meeting that only the funny handshake brigade got invites to?

This is just so wrong, it's unbelievable. Let's stop and search anybody who looks like serial killer Dr. Harold Shipman, as they obviously have potential for great evil. As for the Asians, which ones? Indians, Tibetans, Mongolians, Filippinos, Sri Lankans, Chinese, Japanese? Or should it be based on religion? Search the Islamic followers, but Buddhists usually OK? Clothes? So Stone Island, lock them up as they're all yobs, but Burberry is OK? Where do you stand on Armani? Kindly clarify the parameters so we have a clear idea of what you are proposing here.