mrfahaji

Agree apart from Lambert - yes he might have had a more productive year with us rather than with Liverpool, but you could sense he was in decline in his final season with us. Not sure he had much more than a season left as a starter. Obviously doesn't change what a hero he was for us during his time though! I don't dislike Schneiderlin, he did a lot more good for us than bad, but if his struggles are helping to make Everton terrible then so be it!

Glad you found something to start a new thread about

How is time a "weapon" when all the other teams have that too? I disagree with your opening sentiment that money is the sole factor in all this. Of course those with money find it easier to get where they want to be, but the business model we have, or had, or are supposed to have, is a good one. The other realistic way to have better results than your budget would allow? Find a manager who gets more out of the players than the sum of their parts, not less.

That's fair. I guess my issue with him is that even though he is trying different things, it doesn't seem like he is identifying and changing the right things. The only time I noticed a change in style/purpose not just formation was the first 20 minutes of the Newcastle game, when we took everyone out the middle and looked to get round the outside instead. But again I didn't think it was executed particularly well, and it didn't take long for Benitez to change things and snuff out that threat.

I remember reading this article when he joined, was one of the reasons I was excited by his arrival. He's yet to demonstrate any of this great tactical nous though, nor does he appear to be getting the best out of the players from a motivational perspective. What positives have you seen from him/us so far? (and that's a genuine question, not a sarcastic one)

I thought he was you?

Your stats for Gray are misleading, regardless what you're trying to prove with them. He took over a side from Hoddle that had won 7 and drawn 2 of its previous 10 matches. He drew 2 and lost 5 of the next 7. Man Utd had won the league when they came to the Dell, and Arsenal had secured second. Neither had anything to play for (I seem to recall United throwing in a couple of youngsters too, Michael Stewart maybe?) and there was a fantastic atmosphere with those being our final matches at the old ground. Those wins somehow got him the permanent job. In the following season, he won 2 games from his 8 league matches and lost the other 6. Win% is often quoted but draws are never considered. His other 2 wins, which push his % from 23.5% to the 31.5% you're quoting were in the league cup against Brighton and Gillingham.

ericb is right in his post, but what have you seen from Pellegrino so far to think that he can/will? I'm not sure it's good enough to simply hope, else why ever change a manager? And if it's simply about timescale, if a manager proves to be rubbish after an entire season, would it not have been better to replace them earlier than that? In my eyes there are two possible excuses for him, because I am yet to see any clear positives (we've had a few decent spells in a few games, but that's about it): 1) He is somehow being forced to play a certain way by the board, 2) there is a general malaise with the players that goes deeper than them simply not being motivated. Maybe they're actively unhappy with the board/club, maybe they're all bored with where they are in their careers etc.

Is that not because in general teams are able to attract a certain calibre of manager, who is unlikely to be that much better than the previous one? Take the West Brom job - names mentioned are Pardew, Allardyce, Koeman, O'Neill, Shakespeare. While I think Allardyce would be the 'safest' bet for avoiding relegation, is he likely to get them finishing in the top half? They're all much of a muchness. What if our manager is below average quality and we could find a good quality one to replace him? Doesn't "regression to the mean" mean our fate has already been decided regardless?

Huh? Have I missed something?

I'm not a huge fan of Redmond, and although I've always quite rated Tadic, he has been pretty poor for a while. But I don't think either of them are bad enough to be used as an excuse for the manager. It's up to the manager to work out how best to use them. And if it's simply too difficult to come up with a far fetched idea such as "how about swapping them round?", pick other players. I've never been JWP's biggest fan, but we had an excellent spell under Puel when he played on the right, for example. The reason managers like Allardyce are successful with poor/average teams is that they assess what they DO have and work out how to get the best out of them. Our squad has a couple of weak areas but overall it's decent. Unfortunately Pellegrino seems to be set in his ways, and is simply picking the players that best suit that style even though it's the style that isn't working. I think we should be picking the striker most likely to score a goal (probably Gabbiadini) and then working back from that, focused on how to get him the best chances to score.

Jeez, I could only bare to skim read that letter to Mr "Goa"... why can't fans just stick to saying they're not happy with Pellegrino. It's the one thing we can mostly agree on. But no, some people have to put in additional snippets like "we need to sign some strikers" or "get Koeman back!" Not only are these things not part of the general consensus, but they also dilute the message.

Even if he could turn the ship around, not sure that helps if it's sinking. We're doomed!

Well I've just had a Southampton FC email with the subject, "Redmond: We need to believe". Apparently we have the quality, we're just low on confidence. Thank goodness for that. For a minute there I thought it had something to do with our tactics! #PellegrinoInAfterAll

Hmmm not so sure about that. For a side that plays soooo defensively like we do, our defence should be watertight! Our defence is not 'a problem', though goalkeeper is, but I don't think Pellegrino organises our defence as well as Puel or Koeman did. And clearly Allardyce would make it even better. Surely you must also see that a defence is good because the manager makes it so, not because it looks after itself. It might be ok now, but if Adkins were to come in, it wouldn't necessarily stay that way! I also don't want Allardyce anywhere near our club, don't find him a pleasant human being and his teams have been the worst to watch when I've seen them at St Mary's. West Ham & Sunderland play every trick in the book and it doesn't make for a good spectacle. BUT he did do a bit more with Palace and if you want to talk about flair players... didn't he have Okocha and Djorkaeff as key players at Bolton?

Yeah, it does seem as though MP said what Reed wanted to hear in the interview, rather than having a track record of doing what we supposedly want. I can imagine Les Reed saying to him across the desk, "you say you know Mauricio Pochettino, he did very well with his high pressing philosophy and that is something we're looking to see more of in future. Is that something you like to incorporate in your tactics?"

While I do question the influence of Reed, and there might be a bigger issue at play, surely a manager doesn't play the way Reed has told him to? Assuming (and yes, it's a big assumption) the players are not deliberately sabotaging things with their attitude: 1) He is playing how he wants to play, with no influence from above = Pellegrino is the problem. 2) He was appointed because he plays this way = Pellegrino AND Reed are the problem. 3) He is being told to play this way by Les Reed, even though he doesn't want to = Reed is the problem I don't think it can be (3). Yes, Koeman was criticised after he left because of his formation changes and lack of bringing young players through, but he wasn't fired. His results were good and therefore the board were happy enough to want him to sign a new contract. Maybe they were secretly pleased to be rid of him but that doesn't mean they dictated to him. But maybe Koeman was just more prepared to stand up to what they wanted.

Well quite, one thing is the number of bodies we get in the box, another is why I emphasised "getting to the byline", because at least when they put in across the ground it suits Gabbiadini and Austin (if they are playing). We could even get a lucky deflection off a defender that way too! But we seem intent on lobbing it in the air in the hope that Gabbiadini can outmuscle or outleap the 4 strapping defenders marking him...

Agree with all this, I do think Boufal could be that defence magnet though. He doesn't have the pace but he at least puts defenders on the back foot. I saw some coverage of the Man City game during HT of our game (think it was an ESPN channel). It was showing how they use the pace of Sane and Sterling to stretch the game and give de Bruyne space in the middle, allowing KdB to be arguably the best player in the division so far. I've long thought we miss pace up front, but this helped pinpoint why we miss it. Obviously we don't have someone of de Bruyne's calibre, but if we created more space then who knows which of our players could be effective in a more central position. Boufal, Tadic? Maybe even Davis or JWP. We don't create chances because we don't get men forward, we don't create space, and we don't make defenders backpedal or turn. This is the main problem with Tadic and Redmond on 'opposite' wings, the ball never 'keeps going', the only time we create is when the full back overlaps and gets to the byline and we even seem reluctant to do much of that!

Given you were claiming we could be pushing for the top 4 this season (and this isn't a snarky comment, as I actually agreed with some of your reasoning at the time), surely you must think our squad is decent and must be massively disappointed with this season?

Funny that Pulis "would at least keep us up" even though he's been fired from the WBA job presumably because they look like they're going down. Also, which of our players fit a Pulis style? Clasie definitely won't be returning anytime soon!

Managed to get a couple of tickets for Stamford Bridge. Am looking forward to the convenience of the game (10 minute walk from home) more than the game itself!

If you look at how we've played this season, certainly. But if you watched our games last season in February/March then you could see the potential. As much as Wanyama is a top player, the combination of Romeu and Lemina is an excellent one and rivals anything we've had before. Pelle doesn't have to be a massive loss if you don't insist on lumping crosses into the box all the time. Mane is clearly a huge loss, but there were times that we struggled to find the right formation to get the best out of him. If all our players played to their best in a formation and with a style that worked for them, I don't doubt that we would be one of the two or three clubs hanging on to the coat tails of the top 6. It's a valid question whether there is a deeper issue than simply the manager, but I don't think it's simply that the players aren't good enough.

Obviously this is the right answer. Why is everyone incapable of considering options other than Adkins, Pulis & Allardyce?!

I’m not sure he is ITK any longer? I also noticed that K-Billy was one of the few who voted for Pellegrino to stay in the poll. Not a huge fan of these bandwagon type things, but I really am concerned about us with this guy in charge so I might make an exception and jump on tomorrow...