Jonnyboy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Bloody scroungers fiddling the system again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Bloody scroungers fiddling the system again. Fiddling, in what way? I assume you don't receive any benefits then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Vouchers? Incentives? Tax avoidance? Sounds like the Starbucks of the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 The funny thing is these people on 50K who moan about not getting their handouts are the first people to moan about dole scroungers and other people who actually need the help. I want my £20 a week. Waaaaaaaaaaaa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 I explained my position above. As said, you can be frustrated about something even if you agree with the reasoning. In addition to this, you can vote Tory without having the all the Tory traits. It's not all black and white, there is also a myriad of greys... So you agree with the policy but want to start a thread moaning about it? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Vouchers? Incentives? Tax avoidance? Sounds like the Starbucks of the suburbs. I notice you avoided my question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 The funny thing is these people on 50K who moan about not getting their handouts are the first people to moan about dole scroungers and other people who actually need the help. I want my £20 a week. Waaaaaaaaaaaa.... And the "I'm envious of the more succesful people on this thread" award goes to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 So you agree with the policy but want to start a thread moaning about it? Interesting. You notice you're the only one not getting this...perhaps that tells you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 You notice you're the only one not getting this...perhaps that tells you something. It tells me you're a hypocrite. You agree that the cuts are fine but still want the money, even though you're not poor. It tells me that you're a selfish individual who only thinks of themselves and has little regard for the idea of equality and community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 It tells me you're a hypocrite. You agree that the cuts are fine but still want the money, even though you're not poor. It tells me that you're a selfish individual who only thinks of themselves and has little regard for the idea of equality and community. You have no idea on my situation, yet you feel you can judge me? I will explain this once more. This was an allowance that everyone was entitled to, no matter their situation. I can see why the government have made it means tested, however it's a bit annoying that it's come at a time when we could possibly do with it. Do you get that? I am in a situation where we found out we were pregnant 6 months into the pregnancy. This meant that we are in a situation where we have vastly more going out than we have coming in. Luckily we had some savings, but are still going to come out of a 9 month maternity leave with about £5k of debt. However, not everyone, even those on more than 50k per year are that lucky. If we didn't have savings we would be in pretty serious trouble. People may think that £50k is a lot of money, but it depends massively on your situation, where you live, your outgoings etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 And the "I'm envious of the more succesful people on this thread" award goes to... Ha ha, nice one. You know absolutely nothing about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Ha ha, nice one. You know absolutely nothing about me. I know we can both post pointless incendiary comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 I know we can both post pointless incendiary comments... Some based on facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 I will explain this once more. This was an allowance that everyone was entitled to, no matter their situation. I can see why the government have made it means tested, however it's a bit annoying that it's come at a time when we could possibly do with it. Do you get that? Yes, I do get it, that's why I'm saying you're selfish. You want the handouts even though you think that handouts are wrong. I fully understand it. I fully understand what sort of person you are. You're an "I'm alright, jack" character. You're a selfish person. You want the handouts even though you're financially fine. You don't recognise that some people may actually be in need. You want the share of money that has been ear marked for those in genuine need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Yes, I do get it, that's why I'm saying you're selfish. You want the handouts even though you think that handouts are wrong. I fully understand it. I fully understand what sort of person you are. You're an "I'm alright, jack" character. You're a selfish person. You want the handouts even though you're financially fine. You don't recognise that some people may actually be in need. You want the share of money that has been ear marked for those in genuine need. One more time... These are not handouts, they are merely handing back with one hand a little of the money that was taken with the other hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 One more time... These are not handouts, they are merely handing back with one hand a little of the money that was taken with the other hand. Im sorry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 One more time... These are not handouts, they are merely handing back with one hand a little of the money that was taken with the other hand. It's nothing to do with tax. Everyone pays tax, the more we earn the more we pay. That's just the way it is, and it's fair. You give back to society part of what you have taken. Handouts are handouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Yes, I do get it, that's why I'm saying you're selfish. You want the handouts even though you think that handouts are wrong. I fully understand it. I fully understand what sort of person you are. You're an "I'm alright, jack" character. You're a selfish person. You want the handouts even though you're financially fine. You don't recognise that some people may actually be in need. You want the share of money that has been ear marked for those in genuine need. Lol, nope, you still fail to get it. Don't worry your pretty little mind about it then. If you actually knew me you'd know I am far from selfish. As said, this was originally an allowance, not a benefit which you fail to get. There are other means tested child benefits that we're not entitled to. You notice I'm not complaining about those? If I was so selfish surely I'd be complaining about that as well? Or does that not fit in with your agenda on this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 You have no idea on my situation, yet you feel you can judge me? I will explain this once more. This was an allowance that everyone was entitled to, no matter their situation. I can see why the government have made it means tested, however it's a bit annoying that it's come at a time when we could possibly do with it. Do you get that? I am in a situation where we found out we were pregnant 6 months into the pregnancy. This meant that we are in a situation where we have vastly more going out than we have coming in. Luckily we had some savings, but are still going to come out of a 9 month maternity leave with about £5k of debt. However, not everyone, even those on more than 50k per year are that lucky. If we didn't have savings we would be in pretty serious trouble. People may think that £50k is a lot of money, but it depends massively on your situation, where you live, your outgoings etc. Minor point, but isn't that 9 month maternity leave voluntary? You could always cut it short and then you wouldn't have to rely on, (sorry, yearn for) benefits? Besides, you've got options - you could always move to a cheaper area where your outgoings are less? Just like the govt suggest to the unemployed when they say there are no jobs in their area - you've just got to learn to be flexible, get on yer bike etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Lol, nope, you still fail to get it. Don't worry your pretty little mind about it then. If you actually knew me you'd know I am far from selfish. As said, this was originally an allowance, not a benefit which you fail to get. There are other means tested child benefits that we're not entitled to. You notice I'm not complaining about those? If I was so selfish surely I'd be complaining about that as well? Or does that not fit in with your agenda on this thread? Your greed is so ingrained you don't even realise it. very sad that you can earn that sort of money and still be upset over £20 a week when people are genuinely hard up. I pity you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Im sorry? You pay a lot of tax and get some of it back in the form of 'child benefit'. It's far more efficient to hand this back to all who qualify than it is to means test it, and then adjust the tax rates accordingly. It's not a handout, it's a handback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Your greed is so ingrained you don't even realise it. very sad that you can earn that sort of money and still be upset over £20 a week when people are genuinely hard up. I pity you. How can it possibly be greedy to earn your own money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Your greed is so ingrained you don't even realise it. very sad that you can earn that sort of money and still be upset over £20 a week when people are genuinely hard up. I pity you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 How can it possibly be greedy to earn your own money? It's greedy to moan about not getting handouts when there are people in genuine hardship. If I had £20 a week taken off me it would be like a fart in a jacuzzi, wouldn't notice in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Lol, nope, you still fail to get it. Don't worry your pretty little mind about it then. If you actually knew me you'd know I am far from selfish. As said, this was originally an allowance, not a benefit which you fail to get. There are other means tested child benefits that we're not entitled to. You notice I'm not complaining about those? If I was so selfish surely I'd be complaining about that as well? Or does that not fit in with your agenda on this thread? I don't have an agenda. I just think its strange that you've started a thread moaning about the withdrawal of an "allowance" whilst agreeing that it should have been withdrawn. If you've got no issue with it, why moan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 You pay a lot of tax and get some of it back in the form of 'child benefit'. It's far more efficient to hand this back to all who qualify than it is to means test it, and then adjust the tax rates accordingly. It's not a handout, it's a handback. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So, you're saying that for every penny we pay out in taxes we should get that money back? Regardless of whether we're wealthy or not? What about healthcare.....if you're healthy and don't need the NHS, should you get a rebate? I take it you're a Tory and the reason you cannot nderstand why someone would pay taxes to help support this country and those in need of assistance is because it's all about looking out for number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Great reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Minor point, but isn't that 9 month maternity leave voluntary? You could always cut it short and then you wouldn't have to rely on, (sorry, yearn for) benefits? Besides, you've got options - you could always move to a cheaper area where your outgoings are less? Just like the govt suggest to the unemployed when they say there are no jobs in their area - you've just got to learn to be flexible, get on yer bike etc.. I agree it is something that could be done, however as mentiomed earlier in the thread we would have to downsize which isn't an option. For us both to be 'handy' for work and family (we are going to need the parents in law to look after for 2 days a week when the missus goes back to work) we need to live within 10 miles, on a fast trainline. It's difficult to do also when you need money to pay for stamp duty, solicitos fees etc. We have also been told that to give your child the best start in life the mother should have 12 months off. We couldn't afford this and thought 9 was the best we could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So, you're saying that for every penny we pay out in taxes we should get that money back? Regardless of whether we're wealthy or not? What about healthcare.....if you're healthy and don't need the NHS, should you get a rebate? I take it you're a Tory and the reason you cannot nderstand why someone would pay taxes to help support this country and those in need of assistance is because it's all about looking out for number one. No I'm not. The point I am attempting to put across is that it costs the HMRC a lot less to give the benefit/allowance to everybody who fits the criteria and then increase tax rates slightly to compensate for it than it does to means-test everybody to decide whether they should receive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 It's greedy to moan about not getting handouts when there are people in genuine hardship. If I had £20 a week taken off me it would be like a fart in a jacuzzi, wouldn't notice in the slightest. It's an increase of tax of £20 a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 I agree it is something that could be done, however as mentiomed earlier in the thread we would have to downsize which isn't an option. For us both to be 'handy' for work and family (we are going to need the parents in law to look after for 2 days a week when the missus goes back to work) we need to live within 10 miles, on a fast trainline. It's difficult to do also when you need money to pay for stamp duty, solicitos fees etc. We have also been told that to give your child the best start in life the mother should have 12 months off. We couldn't afford this and thought 9 was the best we could do. Excuses, excuses. To give your child the best start in life you should teach them about how to be a good citizen, to care about others and to not live a selfish life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Excuses, excuses. To give your child the best start in life you should teach them about how to be a good citizen, to care about others and to not live a selfish life. Don't you mean 'pay a lot of tax'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 One more time... These are not handouts, they are merely handing back with one hand a little of the money that was taken with the other hand. No I'm not. The point I am attempting to put across is that it costs the HMRC a lot less to give the benefit/allowance to everybody who fits the criteria and then increase tax rates slightly to compensate for it than it does to means-test everybody to decide whether they should receive it. I suggest that you try and make your points a bit clearer then, because the original post, which I have quoted bears no relation to the elaboration that appears as the second quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Don't you mean 'pay a lot of tax'? No. I understand now that you have a limited grasp of English, so can understand where your confusion has come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Minor point, but isn't that 9 month maternity leave voluntary? You could always cut it short and then you wouldn't have to rely on, (sorry, yearn for) benefits? Besides, you've got options - you could always move to a cheaper area where your outgoings are less? Just like the govt suggest to the unemployed when they say there are no jobs in their area - you've just got to learn to be flexible, get on yer bike etc.. Exactly, loads of people have just the 6 months maternity leave. Or sell the good old BMW - thats 12 years of child beneft right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 It's an increase of tax of £20 a week. Child benefit was set up after the war to make sure kids didn't live in poverty, not so that rich people can have an extra couple of bottles of Chablis a week without effecting their disposable income. It's been long overdue an overhaul, especially with the economy being so screwed. In most countries it is means tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 aintforever still moralizing yet he's already admitted to not paying full tax if it gives him a discount #pickandchoose**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 aintforever still moralizing yet he's already admitted to not paying full tax if it gives him a discount #pickandchoose**** I have already said that I am guilty of being greedy myself. We all are, like I said it's ingrained in our way of life. It's just that some people are more greedy than others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 7 December, 2012 I have already said that I am guilty of being greedy myself. We all are, like I said it's ingrained in our way of life. It's just that some people are more greedy than others Pikey scum. I may well bemoan the fact that I don't have access to an allowance others have for 70 years, but I don't intentionally criminally defraud the country, and those that survive off the welfare the state provides. You sir, are a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Adkins out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 Don't you mean 'pay a lot of tax'? What about couples in the same financial bracket as those who recieve the child benefit but without kids? How do I get the tax back? I'm paying the same amount of tax afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 What about couples in the same financial bracket as those who recieve the child benefit but without kids? How do I get the tax back? I'm paying the same amount of tax afterall. Yes, understood. This is a separate argument about whether the state should offer financial assistance to parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 I suggest that you try and make your points a bit clearer then, because the original post, which I have quoted bears no relation to the elaboration that appears as the second quote. Yes it does. In the former quote it is implicit. I have merely spelt it out in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 No. I understand now that you have a limited grasp of English, so can understand where your confusion has come from. There's no need for the abuse. My English may be succinct because it saves typing, but sometimes some readers need further elaboration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 Yes, understood. This is a separate argument about whether the state should offer financial assistance to parents. Understood but if thats the case, talk of it being some kind of tax rebate disguised as child benefit is a mute point. The state should offer benefits to those who can't live to a certain standard without it, no more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 Understood but if thats the case, talk of it being some kind of tax rebate disguised as child benefit is a mute point. The state should offer benefits to those who can't live to a certain standard without it, no more, no less. We used to have Child Tax Allowance (along with mortgage interest tax relief) and a separate Family Allowance but there were arguments that the tax allowance went to the father to spend on fags and beer and ought to go direct to the mother so it was all changed. You're right to suggest that the whole system is in dire need of simplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 Pikey scum. I may well bemoan the fact that I don't have access to an allowance others have for 70 years, but I don't intentionally criminally defraud the country, and those that survive off the welfare the state provides. You sir, are a disgrace. LOL what have gypsies got to do with anything? And who's defrauding the country? You are not even making any sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 How can it possibly be greedy to earn your own money? Because we live in a society with rules, structures and history, it is not possible to just 'earn your own money'. Your economic decisions happen in a context. In the UK's case, that context is a functioning stable state with infrastructure and education system and a police force etc. They all contribute to an individual 'earning his own money'. Therefore, to want to keep all your own money and not pay tax is greedy - it forces others to pay more tax. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 8 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 8 December, 2012 LOL what have gypsies got to do with anything? And who's defrauding the country? You are not even making any sense now. By you not paying tax on all financial transactions. You're effectively stealing from the public pot. Or am I going to have to explain this in more depth as well? You try to moralise calling us greedy for *****ing about an allowance that we no longer have access to, yet you steal from the inland revenue and those that need it more. I trust you can see how hypocritical this is (although not holding my breath)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 8 December, 2012 Share Posted 8 December, 2012 (edited) The funny thing is these people on 50K who moan about not getting their handouts are the first people to moan about dole scroungers and other people who actually need the help. I want my £20 a week. Waaaaaaaaaaaa.... I think what people want (I do) is a sense of fairness and transparency, I would be happy to pay more for means testing and a higer taxation for improved public services without hestitation BUT the beveridge report was not designed for the different kind of poverty and situations we find ourselves in now, the social welfare system is like an old house with bits added on and on, pull it down and start again. We must make work pay. We must build social welfare housing that will always be the taxpayers BUT will always house the most relevant applicant and it must always be the tenants house until they are ready to move on ie secure housing. Means testing for ALL recipients of benfits regardless of how much it costs, Britishness is all about a sense of fair play. Sense of entiltlement and idleness DOES exist and excusing it is worse the person doing it themselves, we can all think of someone who should be working but does not want to or feels to actually do work and still claim, lets not kid ourselves the system has got weak due to poltitical parties being afraid to touch it as its a hot potato and some recipients have taken advantage of that over the years. The welfare system has to stay but it has to reinvent itself. Edited 8 December, 2012 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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