How do you think an eventual reduction in VAT will affect Saint's finances

[Window Cleaner]

I mean do we pay the VAT on the season tickets when we sell them or on an ongoing prorata basis.

I know that for Administration purposes only the elapsed part of a ST is considered as spent, the outstanding matches are considered as a debt to the holder by the club.

So if we'd say sold 10K STs at 450£ ie 4.5 million, taken at a time of sale

point the VAT comes to about 750K. Taken on an ongoing basis with a rate of 15% instead of 17.5% for half the matches it would be about 50 or 55K less.

Not much but every penny counts apparently.

[Gorgiesaint]

Every little helps.

 

What would have been more interesting though, would have been a comment in the accounts relating to our position on paying taxes (and the recent report that 60 or so clubs are in arrears). Where are we in relation to this? Are we up to date or is there another debt tucked away that still needs to be tackled?

[SaintRichmond]

I mean do we pay the VAT on the season tickets when we sell them or on an ongoing prorata basis.

I know that for Administration purposes only the elapsed part of a ST is considered as spent, the outstanding matches are considered as a debt to the holder by the club.

So if we'd say sold 10K STs at 450£ ie 4.5 million, taken at a time of sale

point the VAT comes to about 750K. Taken on an ongoing basis with a rate of 15% instead of 17.5% for half the matches it would be about 50 or 55K less.

Not much but every penny counts apparently.

 

 

 

It will mean NOTHING as regards SAINTS

 

Lowe's job is to keep the PLC solvent, which is nothing to do with FOOTBALL

 

All Lowe's actions and/decisions are aimed towards this, that is why that in January, we will see the departure of Davis, Schneiderlin, Lalana, Surman .... FOUR players which are at the Heart of the Team that Poortvliet is just getting to fulfil it's potential

 

Come January, all that will be destroyed, and our season starts again, with an even more weakened Squad

 

Lowe The Businessman ......... thinking of Saints as always

[Pat from Poole]

Transfer fees include VAT.

 

Think I'm right in saying that if we sell Lallana and Surman for £7 million between them (number plucked out of thin air), based on a reduced rate of VAT, we'd keep an extra £150K of the proceeds compared with what we would previously have had to pay over to HMRC.

[Window Cleaner]

Every little helps.

 

What would have been more interesting though, would have been a comment in the accounts relating to our position on paying taxes (and the recent report that 60 or so clubs are in arrears). Where are we in relation to this? Are we up to date or is there another debt tucked away that still needs to be tackled?

 

Well the accounts are now 5 months old so nothing they say is particularly indicative of the current point in time.

The tax debts would show up in "trade and other payables" ie part of the 8.52 million, but exactly what's what in there I couldn't say. I think ST sales count in there somewhere, ie the club owes money to the supporters against promise to provide football. I'm not an accountant though (good job ,they all cry) but I've a working knowledge of budgetary presentation and it's meandering.

So if you count say 4.5 million at St Sales, that leaves about 4 million. Part of that may be outstanding instalments on players (like Schneiderlin or even Davies) so I wouldn't have thought our tax debt was particularly high.

 

Coming now to our overdraft. 6.63 million at that time (unless of course we had an outstanding payment on the stadium which had been rescheduled-which is entirely possible).It could mean we've paid our tax bill and negociated with the bank and Aviva rather than have tax debt outstanding which leads to Administration more often than not;

[sotonist]

Transfer fees include VAT.

 

Think I'm right in saying that if we sell Lallana and Surman for £7 million between them (number plucked out of thin air), based on a reduced rate of VAT, we'd keep an extra £150K of the proceeds compared with what we would previously have had to pay over to HMRC.

 

Unless the player's net value remains the same and clubs just stop paying the 2.13% difference.

[Window Cleaner]

The VAT reduction should be passed on to fans with reduced ticket prices, but knowing Lowe he'll just use the cut to feather his own nest.

 

How so?

Come on Stanley you're beginning to get on my tits just now;

How will Lowe feather his own nest, it's not his money and taking it would rend him liable to embezzlement charges. Are you actually suggesting that Rupert Lowe takes money from the club which his is not entitled to?.

Simple answer Yes or No.

In the first case-well,I guess you'll be hearing more from the club about it;

In the second case shut the f**k up;

[Gorgiesaint]

Well the accounts are now 5 months old so nothing they say is particularly indicative of the current point in time.

The tax debts would show up in "trade and other payables" ie part of the 8.52 million, but exactly what's what in there I couldn't say. I think ST sales count in there somewhere, ie the club owes money to the supporters against promise to provide football. I'm not an accountant though (good job ,they all cry) but I've a working knowledge of budgetary presentation and it's meandering.

So if you count say 4.5 million at St Sales, that leaves about 4 million. Part of that may be outstanding instalments on players (like Schneiderlin or even Davies) so I wouldn't have thought our tax debt was particularly high.

 

Coming now to our overdraft. 6.63 million at that time (unless of course we had an outstanding payment on the stadium which had been rescheduled-which is entirely possible).It could mean we've paid our tax bill and negociated with the bank and Aviva rather than have tax debt outstanding which leads to Administration more often than not;

 

The thing that concerned me was the increase in financial liabilities from £884k to £6.62m - I'd be interested to see the accounts that get lodged with companies house to see the notes attached regarding this.

[Window Cleaner]

The thing that concerned me was the increase in financial liabilities from £884k to £6.62m - I'd be interested to see the accounts that get lodged with companies house to see the notes attached regarding this.

 

We have an overdraft that's all, we spent money we didn't have.

[saint1977]

The VAT reduction should be passed on to fans with reduced ticket prices, but knowing Lowe he'll just use the cut to feather his own nest.

 

I don't like Lowe either Stanley but these posts are winding people up on here and I can see why. I've moaned at some of the Lowe supporters on the other thread for daft posts so I'm going to be consistent. They might not agree with our view but they are still fans.

 

VAT won't make a huge amount of difference IMO if cut - you only pay out what you bring in that is VAT-attractable. It might as someone pointed out above make the club some money on transfers but in terms of gates and merchandise it should be a zero-sum game. It probably slightly helps us the fans if anything for buying XMAS presents!

 

A lot of lower league clubs are in significant VAT arrears and there also long been the suspicion that a number of clubs under-declare their gate receipts - I don't think Saints would ever stoop to this for a moment. HMRC are reluctant to go for winding up orders as football clubs have not-for-profit status for the most part but if they feel a board of directors has reneged to their staged repayments, they will go for it eventually. I've not heard them mentioned in relation to SFC as a significant creditor as yet although that's not to say the club don't owe them money.

[krissyboy31]

Are we seeing a tangible benefit with respect to the interest rate cut last month? I know personally my mortgage payment has gone down approx £100 a month, so persumably on an overdraft of 8M? and a Mortgage of £24M? I would imagine the savings due to a 1.5% cut would be massive.

[Mole]

How so?

Come on Stanley you're beginning to get on my tits just now;

How will Lowe feather his own nest, it's not his money and taking it would rend him liable to embezzlement charges. Are you actually suggesting that Rupert Lowe takes money from the club which his is not entitled to?.

Simple answer Yes or No.

In the first case-well,I guess you'll be hearing more from the club about it;

In the second case shut the f**k up;

 

Well lowe and cowen made sure they had a cushty severence payout written into their contracts and demanded it payed up in full on their last departure. This at a time when the club needed the money. THAT SAYS IT ALL about Lowe and Cowens priorities so why should I, or anyone else, think they are not solely interested in feathering their own nests now. You are clearly deluded if you think Lowe and Cowen aren't at Saints purely for the money.

[Calvin]

Ohh god.. Not another finance thread!

[Window Cleaner]

Well lowe and cowen made sure they had a cushty severence payout written into their contracts and demanded it payed up in full on their last departure. This at a time when the club needed the money. THAT SAYS IT ALL about Lowe and Cowens priorities so why should I, or anyone else, think they are not solely interested in feathering their own nests now. You are clearly deluded if you think Lowe and Cowen aren't at Saints purely for the money.

 

Yes but it isn't the same as "feathering their own nests" with an eventual VAT reduction is it?

They are paid a salary, pro-rata in the case of Lowe as he is not on a full time basis.

If a company you work for unilaterally breaches your contract of employment,as was the case with "Going Wilde" then you are entitled to monetary compensation, it's employment law; If those that ousted you

****** up and you come back in to try to clean up the mess then that's nothing to do with the first case. Plenty of people have been rehired after being dismissed or made redundant. Why in some countries a company has to offer suitable new posts that come up down the line to those who they have previously made redundant;It is never expected that you pay back severance pay, if you do more the fool you. I don't know what your employment status is Stanley, whether you've ever been summarily dismissed or made redundant but I bet you wouldn't give them their lucre back if they

rehired you. So before making outrageous claim you need to read up on employment law; As you're not actually going to SMS just now it's not your money that's paying them anyway. don't think you have the same nuisance value a say long shot but I'd be careful enough about what I say even on a public forum.

[Window Cleaner]

Are we seeing a tangible benefit with respect to the interest rate cut last month? I know personally my mortgage payment has gone down approx £100 a month, so persumably on an overdraft of 8M? and a Mortgage of £24M? I would imagine the savings due to a 1.5% cut would be massive.

 

Mortgage is fixed rate at 8.35% unless it's been renegociated recently.

[Mole]

If a company you work for unilaterally breaches your contract of employment,as was the case with "Going Wilde" then you are entitled to monetary compensation, it's employment law; If those that ousted you

****** up and you come back in to try to clean up the mess then that's nothing to do with the first case. Plenty of people have been rehired after being dismissed or made redundant.

 

Yes, but Lowe is hardly in a position to call for fans to support the club is he given his own self serving greed?

[La BoIS Saint]

Ticket sold for £24 should be reduced to £23.49, you can pro rata from there.

[dubai_phil]

Ticket sold for £24 should be reduced to £23.49, you can pro rata from there.

 

So here's a good one. How much will it cost the club to send back 51 pence to every season ticket holder for every game that there is a VAT reduction for......

 

I assume we will see the Stanley's of this word demanding the money back, but the cost of writing 7,000 ish cheques and then posting them for a couple of quid is scary.

 

And then there will be riots in the street because the money comes back as a discount on the early bird discount.... and nobody wants to renew..... and it will have all gone into Lowe's pockets.

As the contract to buy the season ticket was made before the VAT reduction, are fans even entitled to the cash back? Or has the club truly received a 50k ish windfall.

 

Glad I am not working in admin in the club trying to sort the actual logistics and legal niceties of that one out.

Actually glad I'm not working in retail having to print all those new price stickers in all the shops.....

 

Oh you mean nobody will pass the savings on? Oh silly me how naive!

[Window Cleaner]

So here's a good one. How much will it cost the club to send back 51 pence to every season ticket holder for every game that there is a VAT reduction for......

 

I assume we will see the Stanley's of this word demanding the money back, but the cost of writing 7,000 ish cheques and then posting them for a couple of quid is scary.

 

And then there will be riots in the street because the money comes back as a discount on the early bird discount.... and nobody wants to renew..... and it will have all gone into Lowe's pockets.

As the contract to buy the season ticket was made before the VAT reduction, are fans even entitled to the cash back? Or has the club truly received a 50k ish windfall.

 

Glad I am not working in admin in the club trying to sort the actual logistics and legal niceties of that one out.

Actually glad I'm not working in retail having to print all those new price stickers in all the shops.....

 

 

ean nobody will pass the savings on? Oh silly me how naive!

 

It's not even 51p for ST holders though is it.At £380 for the 23 game ST

it's only about £13.63 before VAT making a 2.5% reduction about 30p.

Cheap tickets for ST holders for the first home cup game should about iron it out.